We are pleased with Nova. It was designed by someone who lives in TV. And it is environmentally friendly by using potassium not sodium. Good Luck

Cost/price
 

Wow, I just got a quote, not Nova, for $5,500 for filter plus softener. What is average cost?

If this system is similar to the Sears units I have had for decades, there is a small screen filter that feeds the brine tank. If this gets blocked, you get hard water. On the Sears unit it is very easy to remove and clean this filter. You may also want to check the order of your units, as I recall, the filters should be first and the softener last, this keeps the occasional sediment out of the water softener.

Can you share the name/number of the service provider???

We have used Nova for several years now. However, the Nova serviceman said there was no way to get rid of the black gunk that clings to your faucets and shower walls. Any ideas?

who are you talking about?

WHAT

I thought it was $695!!!

After reviewing the various companies and options, I installed the Kinetico reverse osmosis water filter. Some of the other companies made claims that did not make any sense or they were untrue in their statements.

I am pleased with the system -- no longer purchase bottles of water.

He was referring to another company not Nova!

It is $695
if you add softener $1095



Bob (owner of Nova)

.

Pentair makes several including Fleck and Amtrol
Both are excellent.

Can you tell us what Village you live in or if you live in the Villages? Do you have well water?

Based on helping my friends and neighbors change their filters in several different Villages, I'm shocked that you would have enough sediment to have to change the filters every 4 months. I was changing mine every year and decided to go to 18 months because the filters were still good at the 1 year mark. I know Nova recommends changing the filters every 9-12 months or 26,000 gallons but based on the data of equivalent filters, some are usually good for 100,000 gallons. I personally wouldn't let the filters go that long but how much water do you use each month? Do you live up North where the domestic water is used for irregation and using 5,000 gallons per month?

As far as the softener is concerned, make sure the filter is installed before the softener. This will make sure no sediment and chlorine enters the softener then there should be no need to clean the filter in the softener. I find it hard to believe the softener isn't working unless the resin is bad and that can be replaced. Or you are using so much water that the softener regeneration cycle needs to run more often.

I don't wan to be rude, but I believe there is more to the story because what you are saying doesn't make sense if your domestic water feed is from the Villages and you are not using domestic water for irregation. If you are using domestic water for irregation and can't put the filter and softener after the irregation feed, then you probably need a higher capacity softener but the filters shouldn't be clogging.

I've seen well water that has a huge amount of sediment and clogs these filters but in those cases you can install a spin-down filter in front of the three stage water filter to manage the sediment. There are also other systems that may need to be used with well water. Beyond that, if you have high sediment in your water and you are using a lot of water, there is really no majic filter from any company that's going to fix your problem. You will need to change the sediment filters more often.

We have the Pentair Pelican System for 3 years now. Low salt usage and change the sediment filter every 6months.

Our filters are our proprietary design made for us, I've been doing water filtration for many years, there is no way the claims of 100,000 gallons is possible nor can it be substantiated.

Just like changing your air con in your home or oil filter on your car, all filters reach a saturation point.
We use 26,000 based on history and results.

Also be aware you can't clean or backwash carbon.

.

Your statement really has no worth. Why not show the facts so people can look up you statement.

I put in Nova, nothing mechanical just 3 stages of filters I change myself annually for a little less than $100. I’ve had no issues with the system. Water tastes great. Actually removed my refrigerator filter permanently.

Of course I mean well, as do you. However, you are wrong about capacity. The brine tank in the Nova system is at least twice the size it needs to be. There is minimal, if any, difference in the quantity of water delivered to the inside of the house whether it is run through a 10" filter or a 20" filter. This is easily confirmed by having pressure gauges both before and after the filter system.

The only advantage in using 20" filters vs. 10" ones, is that the filters will not need to be replaced as often, i.e. a 20" filter will last twice as long as a 10" filter. We have 20" filters which I used to change once/year. However, for two years running, the sediment filter was nearly pure white in color and did not need to be changed. From now on, I will wait two years before changing it. The reason that I recommend 10" filters is that changing a 20" filter is a PIA(pain in the ---).


As to the water softener, the only difference between a large exchange tank such as sold by Nova and a smaller tank used in the "all in one" softeners I recommend is the frequency with which the matrix (plastic beads) in the exchange tank is "washed" by the salty water from the brine tank. That frequency is adjusted by the controller which is, essentially, a clock. There is no discernible difference in the quantity of water sent to the inside of the house from a softener with a large exchange tank vs. a small tank. If your household uses an enormous quantity of water, the matrix in the exchange tank will have to be "flushed" more often then with a large tank.

Home Depot sells a Rheem 32K grain softener for $399, which is plenty for a Villages household of 2 people. If you want the Rheem 42K grain model it is $499. HD sells the iSpring 10" two stage filter set (one sediment, one activated charcoal) for $150. Estimated time for installation is 2 hours.

As far as water softeners are concerned, you are correct in that the flow rate should not change given the size of the tank but as also mentioned, depending on the water softener size and flow rate through the softener, these variables will determine how efficiently the water will be softened by the softener and how many times the tank needs to be cleaned with the brine solution. Do you realize you can use as much as 50 gallons of water when the softener is in it's regeneration cycle? So more cycles is not better. It's also possible to have too much water flow where the softener is not be able to "keep-up" and the water not softened the desired amount. The chemical reaction in the softener tank has to have enough time to complete so the softener has to be sized to the anticipated water flow rate through it. Finally, the size of the brine tank is only as large as the amount of brine needed to clean the resin in the softener. The Nova brine tank may be physically larger than the tank in the All-in-one units but the volume of brine is similar.

As far as the flow rate and pressure drop when installing water filters, according to my research, 20 inch filters will have more surface area for the water to flow. So 20 inch water filters should be able to run at twice the flow rate for the same pressure drop as a 10 inch water filter with the same filtration technology. That said, if you want to change the filters less often and guarantee better water flow rate throughout the life of the filter, then it's best to go with the 20 inch cannister.
Here is one reference:
Most Common Water Filter and Water Treatment Questions - WaterFilters.NET.

At the end of the day, you are comparing a do-it-yourself option to a non-do-it-yourself option. There is no right or wrong. All companies have there "complaints and problem installs". I can tell you stories I've heard about most systems installed here in the Villages. There is no perfect company.

I believe the Nova filter and softener is specifically designed for the typical water usage of homes here in the Villages. Given the number of systems installed and the length of time here in the Villages, and the convenience they offer, gives a lot of credibility to the integrity of the company.

I agree 100%. As I said, although similar filters claim longer life, I would never leave filters in that long. I was just pointing out that although Nova has a recommended filter change cycle, the filters can last longer depending on how clean your water is coming from the utility and even then, there is no guarantee that your water quality will be consistent throughout the year so having a replacement cycle based on actual experience is the best way to go.

Nope, the system was checked by Pegasus. Once we switched to NaCL, everything was fine. It was the increase in Potassium that was the issue. Increased Potassium can cause diarrhea...

For some reason, it didn't bother me at all. But there are very few food that I cannot eat...

Try Nova whole house water filter solutions in Wildwood.

The first problem is that you are an engineer, trained to be bound by the laws physics, chemistry, and few other immutable rules set by mother nature. :ho: so are my brothers and my dad. . . they all struggle with behavioral finance as well. ..

So you are looking at your problem from a linear, laws understanding, and humans and behavioral economics doesn't fit into that paradigm, at all. The reason could be unrelated to cost or quality or warranty.

At the end of the analysis, which would you buy and how much do you want to spend for someone else to install or install it yourself. . . that's it. The price differential is what it is. .

not being critical, just seen the tendency of many engineers struggle with that and very similar issues. . :smiley:

Ouch


:jester:

I call 'em as I see'em

Unless a filter is full of sediment, the only restriction on the quantity of water that enters the house is the size of the pipe. A functioning filter, whether 10" or 20", sediment or charcoal, will always pass enough water to fill the pipes in a Villages house and at the normal pressure.

Some people buy Mercedes and others buy Fords. Either one will get you where you want to go. Some people spend thousands on reverse osmosis water systems instead of hundreds on canister filters and salt based water softeners. If you want a decent system consisting of a softener and filters, and have it installed, buy the Nova. If you want to save a few dollars, buy a Rheem or GE softener at Home Depot and the iSpring filter, and install them yourself. If not, Home Depot will set you up with a licensed plumber and guarantee his work. Another option is to hire one of the many local "handymen" to do the job. If you are not going to be changing the filters yourself, buy the 20" model. If you are going to change the filters yourself, you'll be a lot happier if you buy the 10" model. If you don't want to, or are not able to, drag a couple of 25 lb bags of salt home from Ace Hardware once or twice a year, hire a handyman.

I hear what you are saying but I'm not sure I agree but it's your opinion and that's OK.

I believe all this discussion has at least given readers a better understanding of water filtration and softening and some of the options to purchase and install a system.

There are a lot of home improvment projects that myself and other's here have researched extensively and had a lot of experience with. This is why some of us spend a lot of time sharing on some of these threads in an effort to help clear up misinformation so readers can make a more informed decision.

Anyone can Google and watch YouTube videos on a specific topic but in my opinion, experience is the most valuable tool when making a decision.

The one thing I want to make sure everyone understands is you can always find a "less than desirable" review of some company performing some service. No company is perfect and we often don't get the whole story. So it's best to get the facts, check out several companies as best you can, look at All the reviews and come to decision.

As far as DIY or hire a professional, this decision depends on your skill set, the amount of your own time you want to personally spend, cost, and your tolerance for risk.

Hope all this discussion helps.

Sports Guy is Wrong! Engineers Understand the laws of Physics etc. and Financials
 

[Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy View Post
The first problem is that you are an engineer, trained to be bound by the laws physics, chemistry, and few other immutable rules set by mother nature. so are my brothers and my dad. . . they all struggle with behavioral finance as well. ..

So you are looking at your problem from a linear, laws understanding, and humans and behavioral economics doesn't fit into that paradigm, at all. The reason could be unrelated to cost or quality or warranty.

At the end of the analysis, which would you buy and how much do you want to spend for someone else to install or install it yourself. . . that's it. The price differential is what it is. .

not being critical, just seen the tendency of many engineers struggle with that and very similar issues.

QUOTE=jrref;2340439]I hear what you are saying but I'm not sure I agree but it's your opinion and that's OK.

I believe all this discussion has at least given readers a better understanding of water filtration and softening and some of the options to purchase and install a system.

There are a lot of home improvement projects that myself and other's here have researched extensively and had a lot of experience with. This is why some of us spend a lot of time sharing on some of these threads in an effort to help clear up misinformation so readers can make a more informed decision.

Anyone can Google and watch YouTube videos on a specific topic but in my opinion, experience is the most valuable tool when making a decision.

The one thing I want to make sure everyone understands is you can always find a "less than desirable" review of some company performing some service. No company is perfect and we often don't get the whole story. So it's best to get the facts, check out several companies as best you can, look at All the reviews and come to decision.

As far as DIY or hire a professional, this decision depends on your skill set, the amount of your own time you want to personally spend, cost, and your tolerance for risk.

Hope all this discussion helps.[/QUOTE]

SportsGuy why did you try to denigrate Engineers just because your family includes Engineers? My job for many years was to do initial planning for Refinery Projects in the areas of Energy Balance and Water Treatment of all types of water systems. The analyses and recommendations included the financials costs and returns as well as the engineering and reliability aspects. The Board of Directors including the Chairmen of ExxonMobil often started in Engineering initially.
Considering my background I will answer your question in Bold above:

1. At the end of the analysis, which would you buy
I decided to buy the Nova Filtration system with a Reverse Osmosis Filter
for the drinking water and ice maker. We decided to postpone any softener until we had experience with the filtered water for washing and bathing.
Our experience is that the filter works for us and we do not need a Softener.
The Reverse Osmosis unit reduced the dissolved minerals in our drinking and ice maker water. It also can remove bacteria and dissolved chemicals such as the "Forever Chemicals" etc. If there were solvents dumped into the groundwater the RO should remove them. RO's are being installed in municipal water systems in NC to remove forever chemicals from river water and solvents form well water.
I interviewed Pelican as part of the "Welcome Wagon" barrage. I sent him packing when he tried to show the "bad Stuff " in TV water by adding citric acid to a glass of drinking water. The resulting frothing of escaping CO2 was supposed to be bad stuff in the water when it really was acidifying the water to release CO2 from the bicarbonates in the drinking water. High School Chemistry.

2. how much do you want to spend for someone else to install or install it yourself
I decided to contract Nova to install the system since they know their
system and I was working 50% time on international consulting work. At other homes, I installed cartridge filter systems for well water and filter systems on irrigation systems.

. . that's it. The price differential is what it is. .and NOVA costs are reasonable and much less expensive than Pelican or Kinetico

Now for some general thoughts on the subject of Softeners to add to the information that jrref provided in his response.
1. A softener is an Ion Exchange water treater. Your potable water goes through a filter system of both mechanical filters to remove suspended solids and an activated carbon bed to remove any residual free Chlorine disinfectant that was added by the water company. Free chlorine would damage the ion exchange resin.
The Softener itself contains ion exchange resin which has been regenerated with either sodium chloride (Na Cl) or potassium chloride ( KCL). As your potable water goes through the softener, Calcium ions are removed and replaced by either Na or K ions. So a softener can add sodium to the water if it is sodium salt regenerated resin. This is fundamental chemistry.

2. What is bad about "salt"? Salt is a basic name that is applied to many compounds. The bad salt is really the Sodium ion that is part of Sodium Chloride NaCl in saltwater.

3. What do aquarium "salinity Testers" measure? I believe that they are measuring the density or conductivity, etc. of the water and NOT Sodium content. Since the softener removes Calcium ions and replaces them with Sodium ions there probably is no real change in the water density or conductivity so it looks like no salt is added...but it is exchanged and Sodium content has increased.
Also the TV potable water has a low dissolved solids content of say 300 PPM whereas Seawater is more like 30,000+ PPM . I looked but did not find a definitive and clear answer. However, I am sure that NOVA knows the answer.

Salt based softeners do add a small amount of salt to water, we recommend using potassium.
Since potassium chloride contains potassium, a nutrient known to help plants grow, they are considered more environmentally friendly than sodium chloride.
The backwash cycle will not harm grass or landscape like salt
This type of soft water will also be good for watering household plants, which is not recommended for water softened with sodium chloride.

A salt based system may have a minor effect on blood pressure
Also potassium can affect certain heart issues.
Check with your Dr if you have a heart related issue

However, potassium is more expensive than salt at the stores 2X

TDS total disolved solids here average about 200PPM, the only way to reduce TDS is to add a Reverse osmosis unit.

One last point Hard water does not have any harmful effect so a softener is not mandatory,
it an option.

The most important addition is the Nova Whole house water filter only $695, this should be a priority.

Are you interested in a free, used Puronics system? You pick it up and install. It needs service.

Did you post this simply to see a bunch of people reply to it? Your post has no value, other than to generate replies. How about taking 17 additional seconds and explain why you have issued this warning???

Can't explain issues with a paid advertiser..........."you" will get kicked off the site.

:beer3:

If you tell us in a factual way what happened without trashing the advertiser, you should be OK. Every service provider has "slip-ups" but what's important is working with them and see if they rectify the situation. Given Nova Filter's reputation, personally working with them and history here in the Villages, I find it hard to believe your feelings about them. When I had a small problem they were very responsive and corrected the issue right away.

u would hope so

:pepper2:

Here is an example:

I had a neighbor who had a whole house water filter installed by a company here in the Villages. All was good but about a month or two later they had a large flood in their garage because the filter failed. My neighbor was very upset and immediately blamed the filter company and talked about how bad it was. Upon investigation it was found that my neighbor's water heater expansion tank failed the water pressure in the house was dangerously high and caused the failure. My neighbor didn't do any kind of maintenance on their water heater and because of the very high pressure, the water heater was also found to be leaking.

A different neighbor decided to change the filters themselves and dropped one of them which created a micro crack in the plastic filter housing. Subsequently the filter leaked.

So the point is without knowing what actually happened, it's disingenuous to just make a statement.

These are my recently changed Nova filters after just over one year and approximately 25000 gallons - I believe that is the recommended change interval give or take a few thousand. The right is 20 micron, then 10 and then the carbon filter. I live in the Marsh Bend area, 2019 build. I did notice in a Jerry and Linda video they changed theirs and they did not look as dirty. I believe they are in Dunedin. FWIW