[Byte1]

Originally Posted by skarra

Well that is sort of my point - what is the number of bad interactions? And more importantly, what is that percentage. And what is it if you are white vs if you are black. These videos give us a unique opportunity to actually collect that data. And the video was not fabricated, and I've no idea what the fabricated numbers are that you refer to.

If you watched that video (I suspect few did), the unfortunate 18 year old black kid has his hands on the steering wheel when the officer goes up to him - as if though he has been taught by his parents to do that in order to avoid being shot. Does anyone here feel like they need to do that? It really makes one want to cry seeing how badly he is treated by the people with the job of protecting us.

Most of us are white and privileged, and minorities sadly are typically the opposite. Bad cops maybe are jaded by the crime they see, but if they are treating people like the way he did in that video (and has the gall to ask that poor kid why the bad impression of police) he needs to find another job. And if he doesn't want to leave, then he becomes our problem - a really BIG problem.

I get the BLM movement - it's about how their lives and outlooks are so much different from ours due solely to their financial status and color of their skin. There's been a very long history of no level playing field that contributes to that - and it will take numerous generations to overcome what has been done to them. Originally I too was in the All Lives Matter camp, but once I got the idea of what this is all about BLM makes perfect sense and the other "matters" are designed as distractions to have us move along and not do anything. If we truly care about our fellow human beings, it is important to take this first step of at least acknowledging that we have a problem.

I'd like to add to the comment about the dashcam video. I have one and have been stopped once in the last 7 years. The officer definitely took note of it and was super nice. Maybe it was because of the camera which he definitely noticed, or because I was white driving a Lexus in an upscale neighborhood one town away from home, or maybe he was a believer in good community relations - upon reflection I think the latter and a combination. But I suspect the camera did help.

I'm so grateful for the body cam and phones in general. Without them George Floyd would have been just another "resisting arrest" death. I wish there were more cameras around during the times of Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and so many of the other creeps who got away with their crimes for so long.

"White privileged?" Right, sure, uh huh. I don't know too many of them, but the ones that support BLM and Occupy Wall St cretins may be "privileged."
George Floyd incident was unfortunate and may have been a mistake rather than motivated by racism or hate. Since I do not know all the evidence or background, I can only give the COPs the benefit of doubt, considering Floyd's record. A record does hold a lot of credence, until someone proves otherwise. Amateur videos do not always tell the complete story, regardless of what some factions wish to assume and exploit.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Bikeracer2009

Youtube does have a lot of videos of cops behaving badly. There's also a lot of videos where the cop changes his attitude once he sees or is informed that the person has a dashcam. That "no seatbelt" ticket becomes a warning when he's told that it was always on and I have a dashcam that also records inside to prove it.

My dashcam has gotten me out of a few bad tickets. The judge was not happy to see my videos. In one case an officer in DC pulled me over for doing 110 mph in the HOV lane on my motorcycle. He was in an unmarked car with no radar. The video clearly showed me riding in traffic at the posted speed limit. The officer was berated by the judge.
A second encounter was on i66 outside DC. I was in the slow lane and a BMW flew past me and took the exit. On the other side of the overpass was a new officer with his sergeant. They pulled me over for doing 20 over the limit. I explained what happened and that I had a dashcam. I got him on video telling me he believed me but he had to write the ticket anyway because his sergeant was making him.
The judge was not happy with this reasoning and really laid into him.

Before the dashcam was popular I got so many tickets that I lost my license for a year. Luckily I was in the Army during this time. I was never speeding but I was young and in most cases I had a black friend in the car. When you grow up poor you see the police differently if they're taking your paychecks.

I don't support defunding the police and appreciate them. They have the only job that have people trying to kill them on a regular basis. They're true heroes in my book despite my interactions with the bad ones.

I support whatever it takes to get rid of the few bad eggs.

In my many decades on this earth, I have had less encounters with law enforcement than I can count on one hand. Of the two tickets I received in my lifetime, I deserved both. I have gotten away with many more times when I had exceeded the speed limit or run a red light that had just turned. I admit it. I do not make excuses and I do not try to "TRICK" my way out of the truth.
That said, I find it interesting how many times one person can be stopped by the police for not only speeding, but totally disregarding the safety of others on the road by going well over the customary ten miles per hour above the speed limit; reckless operation. And then to brag about getting away with it because one has a video camera just proves the negative of using them, not a positive.
Law Enforcement has a hard enough job without the public opinion against them. Most of bad public opinion is NOT justified. I consider the use of body cams on police officers as a tool to prove they are not guilty of accusations. What some consider extreme, some of us realize is really warranted in that particular situation. Let's face it, most folks arrested do not receive the justice they deserve in court and probably the worst penalty they receive is during the arrest procedure alone.
There are probably a lot more bad doctors, teachers and food service personnel than bad cops.

[Get real]

Here is a great idea....let's repair the image of politicians first. I know that's tough because the image is really bad (unlike police). How about all politicians wear body cameras? That would be a first step. Follow that with term limits.

[Bay Kid]

Originally Posted by Get real

Here is a great idea....let's repair the image of politicians first. I know that's tough because the image is really bad (unlike police). How about all politicians wear body cameras? That would be a first step. Follow that with term limits.

Great idea. Shame it will never happen.

[La lamy]

Originally Posted by skarra

Phones with video cameras, along with GoPros and body cams have been fabulous at exposing peoples bad behaviors. No longer do we have to just take someones word about how an event went down. These are wonderful times in that respect.

I’ve been looking at some of the videos of bad policing -
OFFICERS SUED FOR SEARCHING VEHICLE DURING TRAFFIC STOP - YouTube is a great example of what bad policing looks like (it also explains why many people are so mistrusting of the police). They score all parties at the end of the video, police and public, and got me thinking why they couldn’t do that as part of an annual review process for individual police officers in general - namely review the captured videos over the year and rate their overall conduct. Then, just like in corporate America, bad performers who score an F could be weeded out by being put on a performance improvement plan. If they don't improve in the next 3-6 months they should be fired.

The main challenge I see is the tendency for some departments to protect their own, so I would suggest the ratings be performed by a separate team. The other problem are the police unions that get involved in protecting the bad apples (it may be that their time has come and gone too). But it would be great for the many good cops whose reputations are tarnished by the incompetent cops who do no-one any good, especially the public. And it would help repair the damage that the recent exposure of bad behavior has done. Only then will the community trust the police again.

I like your thinking. Hopefully the days of police power tripping are coming to an end. May it once again be to SERVE and PROTECT, although I know there is a fine line when the police feel threatened by bad apples themselves.

[MandoMan]

Originally Posted by skarra

Well that is sort of my point - what is the number of bad interactions? And more importantly, what is that percentage. And what is it if you are white vs if you are black. These videos give us a unique opportunity to actually collect that data. And the video was not fabricated, and I've no idea what the fabricated numbers are that you refer to.

If you watched that video (I suspect few did), the unfortunate 18 year old black kid has his hands on the steering wheel when the officer goes up to him - as if though he has been taught by his parents to do that in order to avoid being shot. Does anyone here feel like they need to do that? It really makes one want to cry seeing how badly he is treated by the people with the job of protecting us.

Most of us are white and privileged, and minorities sadly are typically the opposite. Bad cops maybe are jaded by the crime they see, but if they are treating people like the way he did in that video (and has the gall to ask that poor kid why the bad impression of police) he needs to find another job. And if he doesn't want to leave, then he becomes our problem - a really BIG problem.

I get the BLM movement - it's about how their lives and outlooks are so much different from ours due solely to their financial status and color of their skin. There's been a very long history of no level playing field that contributes to that - and it will take numerous generations to overcome what has been done to them. Originally I too was in the All Lives Matter camp, but once I got the idea of what this is all about BLM makes perfect sense and the other "matters" are designed as distractions to have us move along and not do anything. If we truly care about our fellow human beings, it is important to take this first step of at least acknowledging that we have a problem.

I'd like to add to the comment about the dashcam video. I have one and have been stopped once in the last 7 years. The officer definitely took note of it and was super nice. Maybe it was because of the camera which he definitely noticed, or because I was white driving a Lexus in an upscale neighborhood one town away from home, or maybe he was a believer in good community relations - upon reflection I think the latter and a combination. But I suspect the camera did help.

I'm so grateful for the body cam and phones in general. Without them George Floyd would have been just another "resisting arrest" death. I wish there were more cameras around during the times of Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and so many of the other creeps who got away with their crimes for so long.

I’ve just finished a long career as a college professor. It was a rare thing for a student to treat me with disrespect. (The students who did were nearly all African-Americans who would drift into class five to twenty minutes late or sleep in class, but most African-Americans were as respectful to me as I was to them.) I had authority, and students accepted that, did what I asked, learned, and got good grades. Students almost never talked back in a disrespectful way. They didn’t complain. They didn’t call me names. I was so fortunate!

I asked my students several times, as a part of writing assignments, what they did if a cop pulled them over for a traffic violation. (95% white classes) Half of the guys said they lied. Most of the others offered an excuse. Some argued with the cop. A few accepted what they had coming or apologized. Of the women, most of them tried to get out of the ticket by either bursting into tears (this was calculated) or flirting. So, any cop, knowing this, knows that even “the best kids” are not being honest very often, though they may be polite.

Imagine being a cop in a neighborhood where people may show gratitude when you help them, but in general you are treated with suspicion or clear dislike and distrust. Most people you ask for information lie to you. People who have done something wrong lie to you. When you need to make an arrest, people gather around and say bad things about you, swear at you, tell you how terrible you are. Respect is rare, even when you are being respectful. Everyone seems to resent you. People swear at you. Sometimes they spit at you or throw things at you. Some pull guns on you. Yet you are expected to always turn the other cheek while protecting and serving.

We are asking our police officers to show the meekness and forgiveness of Jesus going to his crucifixion as we vilify them.

The wonder is not that the police resent this and start to hate the people they are supposed to help, but that more of them don’t snap and start firing. I would prefer that they be always polite and understanding, but I couldn’t do it. It would be so much easier for them if those they are policing would be as respectful as my students.

[Girlcopper]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Saw a crazy number the other day.............Law Enforcement have 370,000,000 interactions with the public every year.


Given that number, and given the number of bad interactions........the "bad image" is all fabricated.

Exactly. Theres a few bad apples in every profession and everyone blames the whole group. Its just another “cause” for the coddled generation to jump on. Show respect. Do what your told and stop shooting your mouth off. Grow up, be an adult, move out of mommy n daddys basement. Its not all about YOU

[amexsbow]

Police misconduct is no greater than any other profession (except lawyers and politicians). The police ranks are made up of people from the general population of a particular area. The number of "bad actors" is a reflection of the same number of miscreants in the general population. This is the same in all other professions. Doctors, lawyers and other professions discipline their own. Only the police are called to a different standard with demands to be disciplined by civilians. As a retired Internal Affairs Commander I can tell you there were many cases where officers were fired only to be reinstated by a civilian review board. So even that solution has its problems.
As far as the amateur videos of police misconduct, you only see a portion of what happened, often edited, and biased by the person taking the video.
I can say without equivocation that if the police do not have the support of their leaders and politicians while doing their job, they will become "radio cops" responding to calls, not doing proactive policing and basically slowing down. C.Y.A. who in their right mind would do anything which could jeopardize their life, job, home and well being to be castigated by society for doing their job. If the average american does not wake up what happened to Portland, Seattle and New York City is coming to a city where you live. Think about living in a city where the police are immobilized by the politicians who run the city. Talk to people who live in those areas where the criminal and leftist thugs have taken over.
Antifa, BLM and other extremist groups are laying the groundwork for the destruction of our democracy.
Read and listen to what they say to their followers, not what they pander to the media.
If we as a nation do not wake up our grandchildren and great grandchildren will live in a society much like the other socialist societies around the world.

[Nanny32162]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Saw a crazy number the other day.............Law Enforcement have 370,000,000 interactions with the public every year.


Given that number, and given the number of bad interactions........the "bad image" is all fabricated.

You say the "bad image" is all fabricated. Would you think that they were fabricated, if an unarmed member of your family were killed by the police?

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Nanny32162

You say the "bad image" is all fabricated. Would you think that they were fabricated, if an unarmed member of your family were killed by the police?

I'll play your game.



Yes.


One officer's actions does not create/support/justify a bad image.

[bilcon]

Cameras, Cameras everywhere. Big Brother is watching U.

"When the Rule of Law disappears, we are ruled by the whims of men."

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

not sure why anyone would start in LE these days

The answer probably is that most of the LEOs and the criminals are BOTH recruited from or learn their crime trade in the same (lower) class. Also the military police feed directly into the civilian police. Conclusion : there will ALWAYS be plenty of Police. Only the city, state, or Federal budget limits Police numbers, plenty of available recruits.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Conclusion : there will ALWAYS be plenty of Police. Only the city, state, or Federal budget limits Police numbers, plenty of available recruits.

Hmmmm


unfortunately there are thousands of positions opened and not filled.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by skarra

Well that is sort of my point - what is the number of bad interactions? And more importantly, what is that percentage. And what is it if you are white vs if you are black. These videos give us a unique opportunity to actually collect that data. And the video was not fabricated, and I've no idea what the fabricated numbers are that you refer to.

If you watched that video (I suspect few did), the unfortunate 18 year old black kid has his hands on the steering wheel when the officer goes up to him - as if though he has been taught by his parents to do that in order to avoid being shot. Does anyone here feel like they need to do that? It really makes one want to cry seeing how badly he is treated by the people with the job of protecting us.

Most of us are white and privileged, and minorities sadly are typically the opposite. Bad cops maybe are jaded by the crime they see, but if they are treating people like the way he did in that video (and has the gall to ask that poor kid why the bad impression of police) he needs to find another job. And if he doesn't want to leave, then he becomes our problem - a really BIG problem.

I get the BLM movement - it's about how their lives and outlooks are so much different from ours due solely to their financial status and color of their skin. There's been a very long history of no level playing field that contributes to that - and it will take numerous generations to overcome what has been done to them. Originally I too was in the All Lives Matter camp, but once I got the idea of what this is all about BLM makes perfect sense and the other "matters" are designed as distractions to have us move along and not do anything. If we truly care about our fellow human beings, it is important to take this first step of at least acknowledging that we have a problem.

I'd like to add to the comment about the dashcam video. I have one and have been stopped once in the last 7 years. The officer definitely took note of it and was super nice. Maybe it was because of the camera which he definitely noticed, or because I was white driving a Lexus in an upscale neighborhood one town away from home, or maybe he was a believer in good community relations - upon reflection I think the latter and a combination. But I suspect the camera did help.

I'm so grateful for the body cam and phones in general. Without them George Floyd would have been just another "resisting arrest" death. I wish there were more cameras around during the times of Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and so many of the other creeps who got away with their crimes for so long.

I agree. I also get the BLM movement. If in the 60s President L.B. Johnson had finished the civil rights legislation to include REAL fair housing and elimination of gettoes and zoning that favored white supremacy, then Blacks could have created wealth through homes in mixed neighborhoods. We could have all grown up with Black friends and neighbors and dated interracially and today most every younger person would be about the same color (a nice healthy tan). Our neighbors here in TV land would be Black and White. All people would be much safer, less violence. And with some other good legislation, the Police might carry only nightstick like British Bobbies!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Simple question for those concerned about the police' behavior.

How many thought there was a problem before the current onslaught by special interest and minority groups amplified 24/7 by the media?

How many bad cops have you run into in your life time?

For starters.

It is nothing but a hyped up prejudice by those with a specific agenda.....which has nothing to do with the health and welfare of the 98+% of us that support law enforcement.

I had a bad incident. It unnecessarily cost me money and I had trouble sleeping for 1 month.