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MartinSE 05-27-2022 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2099712)
Actually that would be Honduras, with a per-capita gun death rate of 60 per 100,000. The US rate per capita is 12.21 gun deaths per 100,000--barely 20% of that of Honduras. (World Population Review website, "Gun Deaths by Country 2022").

True, "gun violence" is not our forte - well, it is sort of among 1st world countries (peers), but not worldwide.

However, we do excel at murdering our children while they learn to read.

jimjamuser 05-27-2022 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldseries27 (Post 2099441)
i suggested in previous posts that the duty of protecting our children should belong to each of the 50 states national guardsmen as outlined in the second amendment to the bill of rights.
They are already on the payroll and are fully trained in the weaponry they use. 2 guardsmen per school using metal detectors and one centralized entrance should suffice and succeed.
No supreme court battles to fight. No us vs. Them. Let's put the children first because if we don't then were putting them last.

I agree with "hardening" the schools. That would help. But, a determined mass murderer with their weapon of choice a generic AR-15 semi-auto will just switch to a church or a gathering of old people at a square for music and dancing. So, now all three of those locations (and others) should be hardened. They could also shoot up a school bus full of kids.
........It will be impossible to "harden" everything.
........so the solution comes back to the GUN........how to make only a SLOWER rate of fire weapon available in the US to CIVILIANS. Stop selling semi-auto rifles and pistols to civilians. At a minimum, make NO clips that hold more than 5 rounds. Buy them back and melt them down. Civilians should get only bolt actions - Australia and New Zealand did it. The US needs to get over its "frontier mentality" about GUNS!

MartinSE 05-27-2022 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2099705)
It is pretty well accepted among academics that our system of government is based on the English system of common law, which itself is based in large part on the Judeo-Christian ethic.

Uh, nope, actually, the main difference between English and U.S. safeguards is that English protections rest on statute or case law and may be changed by ordinary statute, whereas U.S. safeguards are constitutional and cannot be relaxed unless the Supreme Court later reverses its interpretation or the Constitution is amended. In addition, our law is judged based on precedent and English law is based on case law. Judges in England have virtually no latitude in judgements, they must rule based on common law, here judges have a lot of latitude and arguments are mostly based on precedent of "similar" cases to determine how to apply the law. Very different.

The claim by many experts that English common law is based on Christianity is rooted in Christianity is a result of the "Church of England" (based on Catholic - without the pope) and is a major reason many people came to the US to get away from a state sponsored religion. I recommend the Patriot Papers for more details.

And I could point out many other religions that also propose "morals" and "ethics" and "laws". As has been posted, some where is religion referenced in the constitution except the prescription of the government endorsing it. In the western world Christianity has had a very dominate affect on morality and ethics. But, it is not along, and the Constitution is very clear the founders did not want religion playing a role in government.

I have NO problem with people practicing their religion, I have a lot of problem with anyone wanting ME to practice their religion.

That includes my older brother who has multiple doctorates, with his first as Doctor of Theology, and has been on multiple Presidents ethics/morality advisory counsels, including President Bush, and worked as a Southern Baptist Minister in rather large churches around the country his entire life. He KNOWS better than to "encourage" me to go to church! And he adamantly opposes any infiltration of religion into the government and will not hesitate to let you know why if you ask... LOL!

Taltarzac725 05-27-2022 12:54 PM

Second Amendment | Wex | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

It looks like the interpretation put on The Second Amendment by the Supreme Court has changed a lot over time.

Sarah_W 05-27-2022 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2099703)
My wife and I obtained our permits-to-carry in Minnesota some 15 years ago now. My wife hadn't fired a handgun much; maybe four or five times before we took the training. Training in Minnesota at the time was one day of classroom work, followed by a half-day at the range the following day. My wife's handgun was a .38 Special Taurus with a 1 7/8" barrel. Each student was required to fire a total of 50 rounds from various ranges.

She sort of stole the show. All the macho guy types with their Glock 17s and whatever else were often wildly inaccurate, while my wife calmly put bullet after bullet into the color, many of them inside the 10 ring. I recall our instructor took a look at her target, shook his head and said "I sure as hell don't want to be standing in front of HER".

That's awesome! I hear a lot of men tell me how well their wives shoot. I read an NRA article discussing who is the better shooter. They interviewed a military instructor, police academy instructor and a private instructor and they were unanimous that women make the better shooter and for all of the same reasons.

MartinSE 05-27-2022 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah_W (Post 2099724)
That's awesome! I hear a lot of men tell me how well their wives shoot. I read an NRA article discussing who is the better shooter. They interviewed a military instructor, police academy instructor and a private instructor and they were unanimous that women make the better shooter and for all of the same reasons.

Interesting

Another interesting tidbit I have heard, and I don't know if it is true is that all mass shooting by a single shooter has been males. Maybe we should only allow females to own guns - :)

Taltarzac725 05-27-2022 01:02 PM

District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia

This might be of interest. I like the dissents in the case.

Quote:

. The dissent concludes, "The Court would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons.... I could not possibly conclude that the Framers made such a choice."

MDLNB 05-27-2022 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2099650)
Sorry this is also a myth.

Many of the "founding fathers" were atheists. And the theists were often (mostly?) Puritans (Calvinist's and was based on the Holiness movement) that would never consider what we consider Christians to be Christians today. Women were little more than possessions, etc. Maybe you would like to start "testing" women charged with witch craft? They came here specifically to escape the Church of Englands persecution, and they could persecute anyone not toeing the line to their beliefs.

And if you want Christian beliefs in government, lets start with feeding the poor, giving housing to the homeless, forgiving those that transgress against us, not killing our enemies. You know all those pesky things Jesus told us to do, but evangelicals don't want to do, and instead refer back to the old testament and repeatedly quote the "thous shall nots" and not Jesus saying "thou shalt.

And another point, would you clarifying which Bible you want to make law, and which interpretation of it? Since there are over 200 Christian denominations in the US alone, and over 45,000 in the world.

And does the Pope get a seat in the Christian White House? After all, there are 1.5 billion Catholics and only maybe a 1/2 million Protestants (divided up between 45,000 different interpretations.)

So, I am just. curious, is it YOUR religion you want made law?

Now, could we get back to guns being used to kill children in class rooms for the past 20 years?

"Christians" make up in total about 20% of the worlds population. Yet, some how the other 80% of the world's population are not murdering their children regularly in schools. There are always the occasional wacko dictator, or rebels, or whatever that kills children or others. But, Only in America do we appear to endorse muting children in schools regularly. I say appear, since we have had 20 years to do something about it, and so far we can't agree on anything. 20 years...


"Most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Christians (54 out of 56). Twenty-seven (27) of them held theology degrees." They based the Declaration upon a greater foundational belief that God, or as written in the Declaration “Creator,” was the source for men’s irrevocable rights.


John Quincy Adams, the 6th president of the United States: “The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: that it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”

I can dig up many other examples of our country being founded on Judeo-Christian values.

This has nothing to do with the subject, but I felt compelled to respond to an opinion that was not quite factual. It's only been within the last ten years or so that the Judeo-Christian majority in America dropped below 90% of the population (according to ABC/WAPO polls.



If you wish to use Christianity as a cause of killings, why not compare it to the very large Muslim population of the world and how many they kill. You can start in some of the African nations, as an example. Let's not base reasoning and rationalization of murder upon the population of one group.



Like I said before and reiterate, guns don't kill, people kill.



The idea that guns are the reason or blame for killing is ludicrous. Millions of people own guns and have never used them against another human, let alone even pointed them at anyone. You are not going to eliminate murder, period. You can ban guns, knives, glass bottles, hammers, screw drivers, bats, axes, etc. but you will not eliminate murder. Murder comes from irrational people. People with mental defects. Until you address that, then you will always have murder.

We have had murder since the beginning of time. Live with it, but just protect yourself from being the victim.

MartinSE 05-27-2022 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 2099727)
District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia

This might be of interest. I like the dissents in the case.

Uh, yeah, considering there had just been a successful insurrection, uh, revolution, and a lot of people that were "loyalists" and if they had the ability would certainly have caused trouble for the newbies starting the new country.

There is also significant evidence that the 2nd amendment was put in to get states supporting slavery to sign on, since they wanted guns to control the slaves, and the slaves, not being humans, were not allowed to own guns, so did not benefit from the 2nd.

I expect it is HARD to KNOW what all went into the politics of forming a new country and a new form of government (sort of). I am certain there was a lot of closed door meetings and margining going on.

But, it is there, it is the law. So, since there is not a snowballs chance in hell of repealing the 2nd, we live with it.

MDLNB 05-27-2022 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2099689)
It is the use of extremes to prove a point. That fact that is relevant is that there are close to 400 Million guns in circulation. Less that 50 percent of the population owns a gun. About 5% of the population owns about 50% of those 400 million. So, 5% of the population (15 million people) own 200 million guns - or 15 million people own at least 15 guns each.

If you continue to refine the search, a very small percentage own hundreds of guns. And an even smaller percentage own thousands. But, they exist.

When I search for how many times have large caches of guns been found, there were 80 million hits. I didn't check all of them, I assume MOST are not relevant, most of them are duplicates, etc. But, it is NOT an isolated incident in this country.


And how many of that 400 million guns have been used to kill other citizens? Should we ban all guns because a few were used in a commission of a crime? How many times were they used to save a life? That is an interesting point, because I think there have been more cases of guns saving lives than taking them in a crime. ALMOST every study conducted in America says that guns save lives in millions of incidents, vs lives lost by guns in the thousands. SO, if a hundred lives are saved compared to one life lost in gun related crimes, then the whole debate is moot.

MartinSE 05-27-2022 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 2099731)
"Most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Christians (54 out of 56). Twenty-seven (27) of them held theology degrees." They based the Declaration upon a greater foundational belief that God, or as written in the Declaration “Creator,” was the source for men’s irrevocable rights.

Uh, two things. I can't find a single reference to support this. I have read the Patriot Papers several times (debates between them about how to form eh government and there was little to no reference to what you say) From what I can find, it appears 3 Framers were practicing Christians.

So, I call false, unless you can provide evidence.

Second. I don't care what religion or lack of it the framers practiced in their lives. They did not include it in the Constitution, the only mention of it BANS it from government. If they were practicing Christians, why would they do that? That means to me, that ANYONE promoting religion in the government is anti-constitution.

Just saying...

I will leave it to smarter people here who have already debunked this too do it again.

MDLNB 05-27-2022 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2099732)
Uh, yeah, considering there had just been a successful insurrection, uh, revolution, and a lot of people that were "loyalists" and if they had the ability would certainly have caused trouble for the newbies starting the new country.

There is also significant evidence that the 2nd amendment was put in to get states supporting slavery to sign on, since they wanted guns to control the slaves, and the slaves, not being humans, were not allowed to own guns, so did not benefit from the 2nd.

I expect it is HARD to KNOW what all went into the politics of forming a new country and a new form of government (sort of). I am certain there was a lot of closed door meetings and margining going on.

But, it is there, it is the law. So, since there is not a snowballs chance in hell of repealing the 2nd, we live with it.


Works for me. I have enjoyed target shooting since I was a teenager and still do. And I have owned many guns in my lifetime and still do, and not one of them has gone on a killing rampage. Guess I know how to pick them, huh?

MartinSE 05-27-2022 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 2099733)
And how many of that 400 million guns have been used to kill other citizens? Should we ban all guns because a few were used in a commission of a crime? How many times were they used to save a life? That is an interesting point, because I think there have been more cases of guns saving lives than taking them in a crime. ALMOST every study conducted in America says that guns save lives in millions of incidents, vs lives lost by guns in the thousands. SO, if a hundred lives are saved compared to one life lost in gun related crimes, then the whole debate is moot.

A very small number of them. Please, since you seem obsessed with my posts, provide me with ANY example of my promoting banning all guns. Please.

How many times are they used to save a life - do you men where the person shot was trying to kill them with a bat? or a Gun? I expect most cases of self defense with gun shooting an assailant, the assailant also had a gun. So, maybe if neither had a gun, the worst that would happen is a concussion by being beaten with a bat.

Ah, finally, you get to your point, 19 children lives are an acceptable price to pay if guns can save lives too. I will be sure to let the parents know.

MDLNB 05-27-2022 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2099715)
True, "gun violence" is not our forte - well, it is sort of among 1st world countries (peers), but not worldwide.

However, we do excel at murdering our children while they learn to read.


But a lot more murdered before born. Oh well, guess that doesn't concern anyone, right?

jimjamuser 05-27-2022 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2099493)
How many cars have been used to murder children in their classrooms at school?

I wait while you look up the answer since you seem to think this post will contribute to saving children lives.

It seems almost every week another shooting kills more kids, and what do we have to offer as a sign to the parents that we care at all? Sarcasm? Children are dying. They are being murdered. Can we please argue about the color of peoples skin, or the cause of poverty, or wars, or stupid politicians, and for the sake of our children TRY to find something that will HELP. Not SOVLE, just help.

The greatest country on earth and we can't even set aside politics long enough to TRY and find a way to reduce the number of kids being murdered.

One question to be asked, "is the US STILL the greatest country?" It was at least in the top ten after WWW2. But today, when you look at comparative lists of countries, you find that we are # 1 in gun violence and deaths.......that's not too wonderful. We are about 30th in the factor called ......upward mobility - the UK is about 10th. And we are #1 in wealth disparity. Please check the other factors on the country comparisons list. You might not go away thinking "greatest country". I really WISH that it was!
..........think about how factors like extreme wealth disparity intensify the propensity for some marginal male youth to see GUNS and violence as an easy and thrilling way to improve their life. They might join forces in a gang or they could go crazy and individually just kill adults and children as punishment for THEIR dead-end lives.
.........Many young males (in every country, not just the US) feel like they are swimming upstream in an environment that HATES them and one where they can NEVER succeed. In the US they have the greatest access to semi-auto weapons of war than any other country so we have the greatest amount of mass murders.

MrFlorida 05-27-2022 01:46 PM

Kids today are desensitized with all the violence in the movies, and on video games. It's no wonder they are all messed up and prone to violence. If you don't believe me, watch your grand kids video games...

MartinSE 05-27-2022 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 2099735)
Works for me. I have enjoyed target shooting since I was a teenager and still do. And I have owned many guns in my lifetime and still do, and not one of them has gone on a killing rampage. Guess I know how to pick them, huh?

Agreed, and the vast majority of gun owners are responsible - like you. Thank you.

MDLNB 05-27-2022 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2099736)
A very small number of them. Please, since you seem obsessed with my posts, provide me with ANY example of my promoting banning all guns. Please.

How many times are they used to save a life - do you men where the person shot was trying to kill them with a bat? or a Gun? I expect most cases of self defense with gun shooting an assailant, the assailant also had a gun. So, maybe if neither had a gun, the worst that would happen is a concussion by being beaten with a bat.

Ah, finally, you get to your point, 19 children lives are an acceptable price to pay if guns can save lives too. I will be sure to let the parents know.


Just enjoying a civil conversation with an intelligent person, NOT "obsessed."

I don't believe I indicated that you wished to ban all guns, did I? If so, my mistake.
No, I do not believe that 19 children's' lives justify gun ownership, and I don't believe that I suggested that, did I? But, please DO give them my condolences since you plan on contacting them. Thank you.

Not sure where you get the idea that "the worst that would happen is a concussion by being beaten by a bat." I guess that unlike me, you may not have law enforcement experience and know that a bat or club has been the cause of many murders. I believe that death trumps concussion, right? Personally, if someone came at me with a bat, I too would use lethal force to protect myself. I am not as young as I used to be and not quite up to fighting bare hands against a bat wielding assailant. Fortunately, the law allows for self defense, still.

MartinSE 05-27-2022 01:50 PM

///

MartinSE 05-27-2022 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDLNB (Post 2099747)
Just enjoying a civil conversation with an intelligent person, NOT "obsessed."

I don't believe I indicated that you wished to ban all guns, did I? If so, my mistake.
No, I do not believe that 19 children's' lives justify gun ownership, and I don't believe that I suggested that, did I? But, please DO give them my condolences since you plan on contacting them. Thank you.

Not sure where you get the idea that "the worst that would happen is a concussion by being beaten by a bat." I guess that unlike me, you may not have law enforcement experience and know that a bat or club has been the cause of many murders. I believe that death trumps concussion, right? Personally, if someone came at me with a bat, I too would use lethal force to protect myself. I am not as young as I used to be and not quite up to fighting bare hands against a bat wielding assailant. Fortunately, the law allows for self defense, still.

No, I don't have law enforcement, unless you consider the Marines qualifications.

And yes, I am CERTAIN you can kill a person with a bat, but the more likely outcome is someone is unconscious. Please explain how a person with a bat can kill two teachers and 19 children in 2 minutes? I expect it can happen, but it is SO much easier with a semiautomatic weapon. As I have said over and over, guns don't kill people, guns facilitate it.

Keefelane66 05-27-2022 01:56 PM

I feel so much safer the states are ATTEMPTING to ban birth control and IUD’s than regulating guns!

MDLNB 05-27-2022 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2099742)
One question to be asked, "is the US STILL the greatest country?" It was at least in the top ten after WWW2. But today, when you look at comparative lists of countries, you find that we are # 1 in gun violence and deaths.......that's not too wonderful. We are about 30th in the factor called ......upward mobility - the UK is about 10th. And we are #1 in wealth disparity. Please check the other factors on the country comparisons list. You might not go away thinking "greatest country". I really WISH that it was!
..........think about how factors like extreme wealth disparity intensify the propensity for some marginal male youth to see GUNS and violence as an easy and thrilling way to improve their life. They might join forces in a gang or they could go crazy and individually just kill adults and children as punishment for THEIR dead-end lives.
.........Many young males (in every country, not just the US) feel like they are swimming upstream in an environment that HATES them and one where they can NEVER succeed. In the US they have the greatest access to semi-auto weapons of war than any other country so we have the greatest amount of mass murders.


Taking all of what you said at face value, as being possibly being accurate to an extent, I suggest something that many should consider. Instead of comparing stats, try comparing lifestyles of the different countries compared to ours. And I am not attempting to belittle these tragedies by saying they are minor compared to other causes of deaths in our country. Our lifestyle, even at what is considered poverty level is better than most European or other countries. Our poverty level families live as well as many middle class families in other countries. Just pointing out what I have personally observed living most of my life overseas.

"Extreme wealth disparity" is a myth used by a few for other purposes that I can't say on here without being punished. We have a greater opportunity to succeed in this country than anywhere else. The only excuse is self inflicted lack of motivation to excel.

In my opinion (and I know I will be corrected if thought wrong) one reason for such violence and lack of respect for others is that many young folks are not busy or occupied enough. Growing up, my generation mostly worked in some manner. We had paper routes, mowed lawns, collected refundable sofa bottle deposits, washed cars, pulled weeds, lemonade stands, harvested tobacco, or other crops, etc. When we were young, you could get a paying job at age 14 with a workers permit in my state. Keeping kids busy gives them self-respect and their mind focused on goals.

Of course, there has always been violence in the world, ever since Cain and Able.

biker1 05-27-2022 02:10 PM

Which states are attempting to ban birth control?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Keefelane66 (Post 2099753)
I feel so much safer the states are ATTEMPTING to ban birth control and IUD’s than regulating guns!


jimjamuser 05-27-2022 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2099742)
One question to be asked, "is the US STILL the greatest country?" It was at least in the top ten after WWW2. But today, when you look at comparative lists of countries, you find that we are # 1 in gun violence and deaths.......that's not too wonderful. We are about 30th in the factor called ......upward mobility - the UK is about 10th. And we are #1 in wealth disparity. Please check the other factors on the country comparisons list. You might not go away thinking "greatest country". I really WISH that it was!
..........think about how factors like extreme wealth disparity intensify the propensity for some marginal male youth to see GUNS and violence as an easy and thrilling way to improve their life. They might join forces in a gang or they could go crazy and individually just kill adults and children as punishment for THEIR dead-end lives.
.........Many young males (in every country, not just the US) feel like they are swimming upstream in an environment that HATES them and one where they can NEVER succeed. In the US they have the greatest access to semi-auto weapons of war than any other country so we have the greatest amount of mass murders.

Another question to be asked, "Is the US moving toward BEING a 3rd world country". There are signs that the US is moving that way. One sign is the extreme wealth disparity similar to a country like Honduras. The wealth disparity sucks the relative wealth from the US middle-class when situations like middle-class protection factors such as labor unions are eliminated and Congress passes tax legislation by wealthy people to benefit WEALTHY people.
..........Canada is SO worried about changes in the US that they have done studies to protect Canadians from problems caused by their Southern Neighbor. They would NOT have been that worried 10 years ago.
.......If the US changes toward being more of a 3rd world country, there would be MORE frustrated young males contemplating Mass Murder, not LESS !

Keefelane66 05-27-2022 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biker1 (Post 2099759)
Which states are attempting to ban birth control?

A state-by-state breakdown of how Republicans plan to attack reproductive healthcare

MartinSE 05-27-2022 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2099742)
One question to be asked, "is the US STILL the greatest country?" It was at least in the top ten after WWW2. But today, when you look at comparative lists of countries, you find that we are # 1 in gun violence and deaths.......that's not too wonderful. We are about 30th in the factor called ......upward mobility - the UK is about 10th. And we are #1 in wealth disparity. Please check the other factors on the country comparisons list. You might not go away thinking "greatest country". I really WISH that it was!
..........think about how factors like extreme wealth disparity intensify the propensity for some marginal male youth to see GUNS and violence as an easy and thrilling way to improve their life. They might join forces in a gang or they could go crazy and individually just kill adults and children as punishment for THEIR dead-end lives.
.........Many young males (in every country, not just the US) feel like they are swimming upstream in an environment that HATES them and one where they can NEVER succeed. In the US they have the greatest access to semi-auto weapons of war than any other country so we have the greatest amount of mass murders.

I agree with your assessment. My "greatest country in the world" was sarcasm, no doubt lost of those that think it is.

The list of things we have fallen out of first place in is much longer than your list. But, this thread is about the one there is no second place - we are first in having our children murdered while learning to read.

MartinSE 05-27-2022 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFlorida (Post 2099743)
Kids today are desensitized with all the violence in the movies, and on video games. It's no wonder they are all messed up and prone to violence. If you don't believe me, watch your grand kids video games...

Once again, there is a wide world out there, with 94% of the worlds population and many of those (most?) play violent video games and watch all the same movies. NO other country murders its children regularly while they are trying to learn to read.

And I still play my grandkids video games and usually beat them. Did you grow up with the Three Stooges? Do you hit you friends in the head with a Hamer, poke them in the eyes with your fingers? Did you watch cowboy shows? Do kill Indians when you see them coming? On and on. We grew up in a very violent era. Cartoons glorified murder, dropping safes on peoples heads was "funny".

Two Bills 05-27-2022 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckpedrey (Post 2099497)
The Judge is on His throne and we will all stand before Him one day. Things would be a whole lot different if the Holy Bible were once again used as a text book in our school rooms.

If they can get enough Bibles into the schools, maybe the kids could shelter behind a pile of them when the gunman calls.
Bibles and prayers haven't saved a kid yet!

MartinSE 05-27-2022 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two Bills (Post 2099765)
If they can get enough Bibles into the schools, maybe the kids could shelter behind a pile of them when the gunman calls.
Bibles and prayers haven't saved a kid yet!

Agree.

I grew up in a bible thumping Southern Baptist home. I even preached at our church one summer while my brother, the then interim pastor was out of town. And look at the mess I turned into... didn't stick with me - LOL!

jimjamuser 05-27-2022 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckpedrey (Post 2099497)
The Judge is on His throne and we will all stand before Him one day. Things would be a whole lot different if the Holy Bible were once again used as a text book in our school rooms.

Religiousity is not going to solve the problems in this situation. The US long ago agreed to separate church and state. Let's retain that because it worked.

MartinSE 05-27-2022 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2099770)
Religiousity is not going to solve the problems in this situation. The US long ago agreed to separate church and state. Let's retain that because it worked.

I think the appropriate meme in this case is, if someone has a hammer, everything looks like a nail. (not you, the post you are replying to)

jimjamuser 05-27-2022 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterflower (Post 2099509)
defund the C I A
Investigate the psychotropic drugs the mass shooters are taking.

I fail to see coherence here. Possibly humor? Like bad humor? Like a bad poetry Sat night live skit?

jimjamuser 05-27-2022 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YeOldeCurmudgeon (Post 2099515)
That's your opinion. The facts show that the less guns, the less gun-related deaths.

Agreed.

jimjamuser 05-27-2022 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PugMom (Post 2099523)
no, but that's a whole other can of worms. the cruelty involved in these sanitariums were inhumane, certainly, but the solution to simply release them is insane. if this is how things are in the US today, the ONLY thing that will stop this is security. no unauthorized personnel allowed with verification. we had to do it @ my kid's high school, was no big thing. you ring a bell, the camera sees who you are, & office staff buzz you in. not perfect, but it was a start

Mental institutes were closed in about the early eighties in order to keep property and other taxes low for the benefit of rich taxpayers. Just threw them out on the street. What could POSSIBLY go wrong???????

jimjamuser 05-27-2022 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinSE (Post 2099505)
Whose bible do you think we should use for indoctrinating our children? And lets not talk about the awesome success of Theocracies in solving violence - does the inquisition, or the Crusades bring anything to mind? Mass murdering and torture.

If you want to practice religious beliefs, I am 100% in favor of that If you want to force me and my children to practice YOUR religious beliefs - how is that freedom of speech? How is that freedom of Religion?

The problem is MAN MADE, and the solution will be MAN MADE.

Someone said that religion has caused most of the wars in the world.

jimjamuser 05-27-2022 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PugMom (Post 2099529)
an added thought: what about the case of sandy hook? the kid was obvious unbalanced just by looking @ him, but his mother bought them for him, as gifts, yet! how do we begin to control THAT? she even took him target shooting!

If she could have ONLY legally purchased a bolt action or single-shot rifle he could have killed fewer children before he was overpowered!

jimjamuser 05-27-2022 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlieo1126@gmail.com (Post 2099532)
Texas lawmen, Big hats, Big boots, Big swagger , Big nothing, they had to wait till they had an army , when as soon as the first law men on the grounds should have been banging at that door not waiting for help

Maybe all of today's Texans have lost the spirit of "Remember the Alamo".

jimjamuser 05-27-2022 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive (Post 2099536)
"Those who give up a little freedom for a little security shall lose both--and deserve neither". (Benjamin Franklin--allegedly)

i guess that I am confused. Have Australia and New Zealand been taken over by Russia or China? Why wasn't I informed of this?

Taltarzac725 05-27-2022 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2099782)
Maybe all of today's Texans have lost the spirit of "Remember the Alamo".

Two cannons played a big role in the victory at San Jacinto. Battle of San Jacinto - Wikipedia

NEWS

Who were the famous Twin Sisters and what happened to them after the Battle of San Jacinto? | Historic Houston:

MartinSE 05-27-2022 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 2099779)
Someone said that religion has caused most of the wars in the world.

I have heard that, and the other all the wars were about money. I don't know. Personally I am on the side of powerful people getting less powerful people to go murder other people. I think it is sometimes for "god" and sometimes the other "god" - money/power.

I think George Carlin said something about do you believe in my god - no? Bang you are dead as the basis for most wars.


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