[Texased]

There are many more immediate things to be alarmed about such as the taking over of downtown Seattle by anarchists, shooting of police, looting, burning, etc.

[ffresh]

Originally Posted by toeser

Actually, the money is not coming from taxpayers. It's being printed up by the Fed. It will just be added to the pile of IOU's that is building up, called our national debt. It will never be paid off and someday we will have a gigantic financial collapse. I am hoping it will be timed for after I'm gone.

Not quite comprehensive enough in your analysis, LOL. What you say is true but, in addition, the Federal Reserve, which is neither federal (it's private, nor is there anything in reserve), mostly creates fiat currency (backed by nothing of value such as gold or silver) with computer entries. The interest alone on the national debt (479 billion) is staggering, not to mention the "on the book" debt itself (23 trillion) - "off the books" debt is estimated by some to be much greater. There would be no reason for the US Treasury to incur this interest if it coined its own money, as the Constitution establishes as its role, but the scam is for the Fed central bank to print money out of thin air and "lend" it to the Treasury with interest. You and I would be locked up and the key thrown away for far less of an infraction but this has been going on since 1913. The main take away, however, in this case, is that all of that fiat currency (not actually money which has value) in circulation will eventually drive prices up dramatically - the only question is how much inflation we'll have and when it will become completely evident to the consumer - but it will!

And, for the record (though it may not matter), this is about history and economics

Fred

[Jerseybob]

Alarmed? no.
Surprised? no.

I have friends that own small businesses that were told they were behind 42,000 other applicants that did got read or considered as the funding was 100% obligated prior to the end of the filing date.

So Steak and Shake returned the $10m commitment they were offered. Did they return the money out of embarrassment and potential brand damage or was it returned due to private funding that had no rules to be followed? I can only wonder if that funding was made available to other applicants in need. The link is to the New York times article regarding the return and the funding.

Shake Shack Will Return Its $10 Million Loan Amid Furor Over Stimulus Program - The New York Times

.

I would like to see a searchable data base open to the public for the distribution of the fund. It should include:
1. The name and address of the company,
2. The type of business
3. The name(s) of the owner(s) regardless of LCC or other status
4. Number of full time and part time employees as per the application
5. The amount funded
6. If compliant documents for fund expenditures were received (no return of funds)
7. If complaint docs not sent or rules not followed, how much funding is expect returned

Just my humble opinion.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I have always been alarmed that all expenditure of taxpayer money is not disclosed. It should be public information.

A billion here, a billion there and pretty soon it adds up to some real money. Our grandchildren are going to have a real challenge to pay for all this spending.

[ffresh]

Originally Posted by bobnyce

There is no taxpayer money! Most of the budget is run on borrowed money. Taxpayers hardly pay the operating cost of government today. We are operating on the backs of our grandchildren who will never pay off the debt we have left them. If you think the admitted debt is all there is, try asking about all of the unfunded pension promises at the local, school, county, state and federal level that no one ever talks about. We are broke!!!! So how do we fix it - borrow more money from China and ourselves. How about that. We have no money, but we believe we do, so we print more based on the Government's promise that someday we will be able to pay it to ourselves! If you really do believe then I have a bridge for sale. What we have done to our successors, children and grandchildren is inexplicable and disgusting but then again - we got ours let them get theirs!

The only clarification I would add is that "we" is not me (and probably not you). We have been "sold a bill of goods" by charlatans on both sides of the aisle who, as me Grammy used to say, "spend money like drunken sailors" (not to demean drunken sailors by lumping them in with politicians) in order to further their agendas and ensure their continued reign over the "great unwashed" (us). There will be nothing to "get" as this country goes the way of all former great civilizations and fades into the dustbin of history - SAD - when you think about what The Founders bequeathed us - "a Republic, if you can keep it"

Fred

[chet2020]

If the $500 billion was well spent, the Feds would like us to know. They do not want us to know, so what does that tell you? I'll take a wild guess. It went to mostly to companies of rich donors, administration grifters, and battleground states.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Is anyone else alarmed that the disclosure of the recipients of more than $500 billion in bailout money delivered to businesses through the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) is such a big secret?. Questions directed to the Treasury Department were answered by saying that information was “proprietary” and “confidential”.

Why? That amount of our taxpayer funds is not insignificant. Heck, the entire budget of the Defense Department is $617 billion! Would we accept that what was being spent by the DOD is a big secret?

I don’t think so. Why?

Great suntan! The Supreme Court term should be no longer than 6 years. I agree. And the PPE should have ONLY been for businesses with 10 or fewer employees. THAT is a small business.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Some of us aren't losing sight of that. What we are losing sight of, is who is in possession of our money. We are losing sight of that, because the people our elected officials have chosen to trust with that information, have chosen not to keep us informed.

If this was a matter of national security - I'd say yeah - we don't need to know exactly who has the money. I'd totally understand that. We don't "need" to know that Lockheed-Martin got the bid award for the secret helicopter project that shoots missiles with precision aim while hanging upside down, with 27 Portuguese Water Dogs specially trained to carry bombs are tossed out in self-pulling parachutes over the enemy compound.

But we should know that Darden Restaurants (owner of Chili's) received 10M while Bob's Diner's application wasn't even considered because they ran out of money before he turned it in - which was 2 weeks BEFORE the deadline.

We don't necessarily have the "right" to the first wad of taxpayer dough's information. But we should necessarily have the "right" to the second wad's info.

Great post.

[JoelJohnson]

Originally Posted by John41

No big secret. Treasury has already disclosed who got the money and who, like Harvard, had to give some back thanks to the Treasury. What irritates me is that some of that taxpayer money is going to criminal illegal aliens. And some states want the taxpayer to bail out their pension funds. Also these states were involved in distributing some of the money, not just the Treasury, and their antiquated COBOL systems aren’t up to the job.

COBOL is not the problem, when you don't upgrade your hardware to take care of future problems, then you create a problem. If you never heard of DOS (denial of service) then it means that a company's server (or the states or city or whatever) gets overwhelmed by the number of requests it gets. You can't put 10LBS of rocks in a 5LB bag. The state (or whatever) needs to upgrade, but that takes money and time.

But to your first point, the $500B in this last round was not disclosed. It IS our money and we are not talking national security here, just business that got our money.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Texased

There are many more immediate things to be alarmed about such as the taking over of downtown Seattle by anarchists, shooting of police, looting, burning, etc.

One man's worry about looting is another man's socially important and citizen's responsibility to change society when necessary for the betterment of all.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by ffresh

The only clarification I would add is that "we" is not me (and probably not you). We have been "sold a bill of goods" by charlatans on both sides of the aisle who, as me Grammy used to say, "spend money like drunken sailors" (not to demean drunken sailors by lumping them in with politicians) in order to further their agendas and ensure their continued reign over the "great unwashed" (us). There will be nothing to "get" as this country goes the way of all former great civilizations and fades into the dustbin of history - SAD - when you think about what The Founders bequeathed us - "a Republic, if you can keep it"

Fred

Well said, Fred and it rhymes. Very thought-provoking.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by John41

No big secret. Treasury has already disclosed who got the money and who, like Harvard, had to give some back thanks to the Treasury. What irritates me is that some of that taxpayer money is going to criminal illegal aliens. And some states want the taxpayer to bail out their pension funds. Also these states were involved in distributing some of the money, not just the Treasury, and their antiquated COBOL systems aren’t up to the job.

1: Harvard did not receive business stimulus funding. It received funding that was set aside specifically for universities and other higher education entities. It received less than some other schools in the greater Boston area, and dedicated 100% of it to relieving financial aid obligations for students who needed it. Only 50% was required to be dedicated to that.
2. It irritates me that some of the money is going to criminal LEGAL citizens. Scofflaws, scoundrels, rogues, thieves, burglars, wife-abusers, sexual molesters - they're ALL getting this money. That bothers me a lot more than the occasional slip-up in accounting that gives an undocumented kid money, because there are a lot more of Americans who commit criminal acts in our country, than there are undocumented immigrants who commit criminal acts in our country.

The American citizen who molests his daughter, to me, is more of a concern than a Christian man from Venezuela who gets his son smuggled into the USA to save his life from gang wars. Your mileage may vary, but I'd MUCH prefer to have to learn spanish to understand my new next door neighbor, than have to listen to the screams of a 10-year-old being molested by her daddy.

[blklabfan]

Please correct me if I misunderstood, but didn't the House demand, and receive, fiscal oversight of the funds?
If so, I would expect a full accounting sometime in the future.

[ALadysMom]

Originally Posted by kanoa1kale2

Had to respond - COBOL is ancient - If kept updated, it will continue to do the job it was programmed for. One got writers cramps coding it. They also still use Big OS in DC. Most who knew anything about that are dead and gone. Strange that they have so much trouble replacing these older systems.

This post is mostly false. COBOL is still used, though less frequently. Those of us who learned It back in the day did not get writers cramps because it was tediously entered on keyboards to punched cards and debugged on huge green-screen tractor feed paper. My oldest son, now a robotics computer engineer, also had to learn it and used it at his internship at FERMI National Science Labs in 2009. I am, thankfully, alive and many of my classmates are very much alive too.

[ALadysMom]

Did you also demand a full accounting of the “shovel-ready“ stimulus Under the last administration? I don’t remember seeing any of those companies publicly shamed for taking advantage of a government program that was designed to benefit them.

Transparency is generally good but divulging sensitive financial data could produce unintended consequences for those that all of our leaders wanted to help.