[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by jacksonbrown

Education Is Offensive and Racist and so is America

Talk about a totally ignorant/biased/prejudiced 'opinion' piece.

Davis, like Robert E. Lee, and so many others from Southern states spent their life in service to the United States.

They rallied to the Confederacy only because Lincoln invaded their states.

The author.

Paul Craig Roberts - Wikipedia

He has been a regular guest on programs broadcast by RT (formerly known as Russia Today).

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Byte1

We don't NEED any more gov. especially more gov control. Sorry, but I do not NEED someone telling me where or where I cannot live, or who my neighbors must be. I see nothing wrong with gated communities, if one wishes to live in them.
"Racial Justice?" Is that different than any other JUSTICE? Why does Justice have to be segregated to race, gender, religion or sexual preference? Why can't one law fit all? Do some have special needs? I am an adult and do not need MORE gov control. The reason the economy did well in the last couple years was because of LESS gov control; less regulations.
The Constitution is color blind and gender blind, therefore if we are TRULY living and moderated by it, then there is NO racial justice, just plain old JUSTICE for all American citizens.

Very well said.

One of lifes biggest lies is I am here from the govt to help you.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by Ele201

Hello. OBB. I couldn’t agree with you more! I have seen 2-parent systems fail, with quite traumatic effects on the children. On the other hand, I’ve seen single parent households operate under tremendous financial strain.

You completely ignore study after study done throughout the years that show children raised in single parent homes have a higher percentage of criminals than children from two parent families.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

You completely ignore study after study done throughout the years that show children raised in single parent homes have a higher percentage of criminals than children from two parent families.

Your completely correct but some people would rather not have to deal with facts when they do not agree with their opinions.

[Joe C.]

Hey !
Do you want a slogan that works all the time ...everywhere?

"OBEY THE LAW"

[600th Photo Sq]

Originally Posted by HelenLCSW

Actually, Governor Cuomo has come up with a very detailed plan and requiring every mayor to have implemented it by April of next year or they will not receive state financial aid. The plan includes most of the things we have just been talking about. There is no chance, however, that our Florida governor will follow suit🙁

So Gov. Cuomo has finally come up with a cure all plan for this latest fiasco that is taking place.

Well based on his Covid-19 track record which was a complete disaster. thanks but no thanks.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Joe C.

Hey !
Do you want a slogan that works all the time ...everywhere?

"OBEY THE LAW"

But than the people that come after you dont get to loot and destroy and pillage.

[LoisR]

What can you expect from people who have never had any type of social or economical relationship with a person of color? Having been a HS Principal and Asst. Supt of Schools (local and county wide), there is discipline in schools. Expect more of the same unless we, yes, all of us, change.

[ALadysMom]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

What do you expect, when privileged whites are given much lighter sentences or let off...for the same things in which blacks are prosecuted & incarcerated?

Or do you think it's just a coincidence, that 70% of those cleared by DNA in the 'Innocence Project' are minorities...and 63% are black?

Innocence Project (click here)



Simply a coincidence?

I don't think so.

Do you have a source for “ privileged whites are given much lighter sentences or let off...for the same things in which blacks are prosecuted & incarcerated?”

Your link to the Innocence Project does not prove your point since your point was how many of each race are “let off”(not charged or simply not arrested but GUILTY of what?) or are “given lighter sentences (again, how many of each race get what sentence for exactly the same crime, in the same jurisdiction and have exactly the same criminal record/rapshee?)

Arrest, Charging with an Offense & Sentencing all occur prior to the Innocence Project ever reviewing the case.

[ALadysMom]

Originally Posted by Maryc7878

Thank you for the video link. Very informative. Many men giving their perspective. As Denzel Washington states, it all starts with the family.

My six year old grandson has no idea what color his friend is, what ethnicity or religion he might be. He just knows he likes his friend, they like to do things together.
Maybe we can learn from our grandchildren. It is their future we should be trying to build.

You may be imposing your own wishful thinking as you under-estimate the ignorance and innocence of your grandson. Children learn what they live and one of their talents is perceiving things that are unsaid through gestures, vocal tones, facial expressions, and even their perceptions of others’ emotional stress. Very young infants often correctly demonstrate their perceptive abilities when reading and reacting to their mother or other primary caregiver as they mirror them.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by LoisR

What can you expect from people who have never had any type of social or economical relationship with a person of color? Having been a HS Principal and Asst. Supt of Schools (local and county wide), there is discipline in schools. Expect more of the same unless we, yes, all of us, change.

We are from NY and they had lots of discipline in the school systems. Many teachers thought they spend more time being a policeman than in teaching.

the local jr high that our son was about to go to made all students go thru metal detectors before heading off to their classrooms. Do you think the school district did this for no reason?

Luckily my job relocated us in the nick of time so we did not have to deal with it.

Do you think that most school districts in disadvantaged areas have no problems with discipline?

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by ALadysMom

Do you have a source for “ privileged whites are given much lighter sentences or let off...for the same things in which blacks are prosecuted & incarcerated?”

Your link to the Innocence Project does not prove your point since your point was how many of each race are “let off”(not charged or simply not arrested but GUILTY of what?) or are “given lighter sentences (again, how many of each race get what sentence for exactly the same crime, in the same jurisdiction and have exactly the same criminal record/rapshee?)

Arrest, Charging with an Offense & Sentencing all occur prior to the Innocence Project ever reviewing the case.

Yep...but more like sources (plural).

Here's but a couple of examples.

If you really want to learn more (and I hope you do), there's lots more studies in PDF...that can't be posted here.

I strongly encourage yours (and others)...further education.


Sentencing different for blacks (poke here)

Key Findings

Consistent with its previous reports, the Commission found that sentence length continues to be associated with some demographic factors. In particular, after controlling for a wide variety of sentencing factors, the Commission found:

Black male offenders continued to receive longer sentences than similarly situated White male offenders. Black male offenders received sentences on average 19.1 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders during the Post-Report period (fiscal years 2012-2016), as they had for the prior four periods studied. The differences in sentence length remained relatively unchanged compared to the Post-Gall period.

Non-government sponsored departures and variances appear to contribute significantly to the difference in sentence length between Black male and White male offenders. Black male offenders were 21.2 percent less likely than White male offenders to receive a non-government sponsored downward departure or variance during the Post-Report period.

Furthermore, when Black male offenders did receive a non-government sponsored departure or variance, they received sentences 16.8 percent longer than White male offenders who received a non-government sponsored departure or variance. In contrast, there was a 7.9 percent difference in sentence length between Black male and White male offenders who received sentences within the applicable sentencing guidelines range, and there was no statistically significant difference in sentence length between Black male and White male offenders who received a substantial assistance departure.

Violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to account for any of the demographic differences in sentencing. Black male offenders received sentences on average 20.4 percent longer than similarly situated White male offenders, accounting for violence in an offender’s past in fiscal year 2016, the only year for which such data is available. This figure is almost the same as the 20.7 percent difference without accounting for past violence. Thus, violence in an offender’s criminal history does not appear to contribute to the sentence imposed to any extent beyond its contribution to the offender’s criminal history score determined under the sentencing guidelines.

Punishment for racial perceptions (click here)

Race and Punishment: Racial Perceptions of Crime and Support for Punitive Policies

Whites misjudge how much crime is committed by African Americans and Latinos.

White Americans overestimate the proportion of crime committed by people of color, and associate people of color with criminality. For example, white respondents in a 2010 survey overestimated the actual share of burglaries, illegal drug sales, and juvenile crime committed by African Americans by 20-30%. In addition, implicit bias research has uncovered widespread and deep-seated tendencies among whites – including criminal justice practitioners – to associate blacks and Latinos with criminality.

Researchers have shown that white Americans who more strongly associate crime with people of color are more likely to support punitive criminal justice policies. When individuals believe that those who commit crime are similar to them, they more readily reflect on the underlying circumstances of the crime and respond with empathy and mercy. But when people perceive a racial gap between themselves and those who commit crime, they are less compassionate and react instead with anger and outrage.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Yep...but more like sources (plural).

Here's but a couple of examples.

If you really want to learn more (and I hope you do), there's lots more studies in PDF...that can't be posted here.

I strongly encourage yours (and others)...further education.


Sentencing different for blacks (poke here)




Punishment for racial perceptions (click here)

Interesting report. I would just make a few observations about the sentencing differences report. First, the study only applies to Federal crimes, not state crimes. Also, I would expect whites to receive lighter sentences than blacks, not because of their race, but because of their economic advantage. In our justice system, defendants are allowed to hire their own defense attorneys. And, whites have a huge advantage when it comes to paying for a legal defense because they have more money. So, if you want equality in sentencing, then you need to totally change the system to prohibit a defendant from paying for their own defense. O.J. Simpson is a perfect example of how an expensive legal defense can produce a favorable result.

[ALadysMom]

Originally Posted by LoisR

What can you expect from people who have never had any type of social or economical relationship with a person of color? Having been a HS Principal and Asst. Supt of Schools (local and county wide), there is discipline in schools. Expect more of the same unless we, yes, all of us, change.

Be real. The officers undoubtedly have interacted many times with people of various cultural and ethnic backgrounds as youth, in college, and on the job. They aren’t living in a vacuume.

The question posed by this thread was what specific changes do you think would have meaningful and lasting effects? How did you keep order & gain respect from your students? Did any of them become beat cops on the street?

Do you think would have happened if (like happened in Atlanta) a young white man who was reportedly suspected of driving under the influence resisted arrest by punching a cop in the face then stole his taser and ran then tried to taze the cop? I don’t know if the outcome would have been different but why didn’t the cop allow the other cop to use his taser to subdue the offender? Perhaps the shooter cop did not realize the weapon was his taser? Did he fear the suspect had a gun that he was aiming & discharging? Intense Stress, the darkness of night affecting visual perception, fear of harm to the public nearby could all have caused that officer to have made errors in his judgment. Or he could simply be a power-hungry bully who would probably have demonstrated that flaw many times before. The Atlanta case is very different from the case in Minneapolis yet the two elicit similar responses from protestors.

My relationship to a few cops and my own interactions with them lead me to believe the police forces seek, hire, promote and train far too many bullies. Doing a Myers-Briggs test or other psychological profile on police might be a useful screening tool to guide appropriate hiring and training.

The social media exposure of our young people cannot be overlooked as contributing to the aggressive responses in some instances. Aggression and violence is everywhere young people look...movies, videos, games, social media and many times in their own real life situations too.

Changes should include training of strategic thinking skills and conflict resolution for everyone on both sides. I remember Smokey the Bear’s simple public service commercials, for example. Similar messages could be placed to benefit everyone through social media, commercials, billboards and in a mandated civics course, preferably in elementary schools before dangerous trouble occurs.

Some lessons from the school of hard-knocks: apologizing should come easily since it costs you nothing, being forced to empathize is the only way some people ever put themselves in another’s shoes, respect must be earned and shared both ways, forgiveness is protective & powerful, while having & sharing abundant gratitude changes almost everything.

Change must come. If this continues, who will want to be a cop?

[ALadysMom]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Interesting report. I would just make a few observations about the sentencing differences report. First, the study only applies to Federal crimes, not state crimes. Also, I would expect whites to receive lighter sentences than blacks, not because of their race, but because of their economic advantage. In our justice system, defendants are allowed to hire their own defense attorneys. And, whites have a huge advantage when it comes to paying for a legal defense because they have more money. So, if you want equality in sentencing, then you need to totally change the system to prohibit a defendant from paying for their own defense. O.J. Simpson is a perfect example of how an expensive legal defense can produce a favorable result.

Legal representation can make a huge difference but you did not mention the differing individual criminal histories of sentencing for similar crimes. A defendant with little or no criminal history is often given consideration over one who has lead a life of crime.