Variants/mutations - that's why you want to mask until the entire population gets vaccinated!

Slight change to your wording - until the entire population has the opportunity to get vaccinated, and accepts or declines. After that, the anti-vaxxers are on their own...

Ok. First it was...why do I have to get vaccinated? Then its....Im vaccinated why wear a mask? Just because youre vaccinated doesnt mean everyone is. Do you think the world can be put on the honor system? If wearing a mask wasnt still mandatory after getting the vaccine, you would have everyone claiming they were vaccinated. And true, we are given cards to prove we are vaccinated. How long before the forgeries show up? Just wear your mask until its safe to not

The forgeries are available EVERYWHERE - $5 - just do a web search. That took no time.

The rest of your comments have been hashed over ad nauseum...

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BTW folks - just heard on a News Talk radio today - DON'T laminate your vacc card, as many are. If we need a 'booster' they can't update it on the card. For us, we keep our original card in the safe with passports etc etc. Made a copy for our wallets. And took a cell phone picture.

Just a friendly FYI. As mentioned below - the OCD thing>
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They're already said a booster shot would probably result in a new card. I agree - don't laminate the card. Instead, make a reduced size copy and laminate THAT, so it fit in your wallet. Doubtful if we'll need it anyway. You can purchase all the fake copies you'd like. By summer you'll be able to buy fake copies at flea markets and Circle K store marked 'for amusement' only...

Not True

95% effective means 5 out of 100 get it, symptoms can be none to typically mild.
There are documented cases of vaccinated people testing positive and giving it to non vaccinated people.

A man on Arbana Path caught Covid a month after his second shot. Is in the Hospital as a precautionary step due to his age etc.

Funny, but Google doesn't either. No hits on a search using "covid positivity rate immigrants brazil variant" The director of FEMA did testify before Congress that the overall positivity rate of southern border immigrants is LOWER than the rate for Texans being tested.
2 weeks ago The administration admits that testing is a problem and their system is being stressed. But nowhere did I found 10% or any evidence of what you are suggesting. The Federal govt has asked for assistance in testing from the established testing facilities in the states and local communities and offered to full pay the cost for the testing. Some politicians have refused to allow any cooperation.

Do you have any reliable source for your statement? There is a long and very ugly history of nativists to blame disease on immigrants.

You can still get the virus it just won't kill you, so they say, and you can spread it to others.

I am not an antivaxxer, I just do not want this vaccine. There is too much unknown and all these “experts” are not credible. More than 10 people HAVE died from the vaccine 13 in Norway alone. Those proponents of the vaccines would certainly not admit the vaccine would have anything to do with any deaths. Does not fit their narrative. “A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.” Edward R. Murrow

Vaccines are NOT 100% effective. 5-10% of vaccinated people can become infected.

So, you are inferring that if nobody got vaccinated, 100% of the population would get infected.

Simply not true. 95% effective means 5 out of 100 are susceptible to exposure.

We know that of those susceptible, 95% will not get it, and of the 5% that will get it, 98% will survive.

The math gets rather long but of a sampling of 50,000, 2500 are susceptible

Of that 2500, 100 will get Covid.

Of that 100, more than 98 will survive

So effectively, 1 in 50,000 will not survive....

That's the math...

That's already been debunked by Norway and the US as well.

I'd rather have a 99.999% chance at life, than a 2% chance of death

5% CAN be infected. of those, 95% will not, and of those, 98% will survive.

Have you even been reading the science, the new variant is spreading rapidly among kids and the sick kids require hospitalization. It is increasing cases around the country.

Sorry but you are wrong. 95% effective means that in a situation where 100 people who are not vaccinated get sick, only 5 with vaccine get sick. Think of it this way. If seat belts are 60% effective at reducing crash deaths, it does not mean that 40% of seat-belt wearers will die in a car crash.

More technically, start with 10000 people. Give 5000 the shots. Watch them for 3 months. If out of the vaccinated 5000 you get 5 sick people and out of the not vaccinated group you get 100 sick people the vaccine was 95% effective. It reduced cases by 95%

Your statement that 5% of the vaccinated group gets sick is wrong. In my example 5% of the 5000 people would mean 250 get sick using your misunderstanding. As you can see that is not how the statistic is calculated. 95% efficacy does not mean that 5% of the vaccinated people will get sick.

Man, you're not the only one confused! If I'm vaccinated, and therefore "protected" and don't "spread" the virus I don't carry, it matters not if others are not vaccinated. Now, in six months (which is what I'm hearing currently regarding the length of said protection) I'll be digging out my mask to don until further info on re-vaccination or if efficacy is beyond six months. :pray:

Why masks
 

95 % effective is not 100%. If you are around a carrier you can still get sick. You may avoid hospitalization and serious illness but still get sick. So particularly if you have underlying medical issues it can be a problem

See above. You do not understand how effectiveness is calculated so please until you do stop trying to tell people "that's the math". Efficacy has nothing to do with susceptible.

What you might be hearing is that the data analyzed shows that the vaccine continues to work for the entire length of the study which was six months. No drop in protection has been detected. This does not mean it stops working after six months. If I invent a new roof shingle and six months after installation there are no leaks that does not mean it will fail now. It means simply that based on the available data I can say the roof lasts six months and I can't say anything about it beyond what has been studied.

The 6 months is rather inaccurate news.

I think people like to 'stir the pot' and substantiate their anti-vaxxing/alternative medicine agenda!

The vaccine hasn't been out that long. Previous testing 10 years ago with the SARS and MERS vaccines (same basic vaccine) did not test the long term viability of the vaccine because SARS and MERS went away rather fast.

You can paint your house. Six months later you can say the paint has lasted 6 months.

But a booster is a small price to pay, and certainly not a reason to ignore the science and refuse the inoculation.

Ok, so educate us if all of us aren't doing the math right....

The real answer is that they are lying to maintain the hoax.

The correct way to interpret the statistics from the trials is as follows. If you are fully vaccinated and two weeks after your second shot, the probability of developing symptoms (look at the trial studies for the exact definition of what symptoms, how many symptoms, and the level of symptoms they call "positive") if you are exposed is reduced by 20x (95% efficacy) compared with not having been vaccinated. Your probability of developing symptoms if you are exposed and not vaccinated is not precisely known but is generally a small number. In the trials, they don't know who was exposed. So, the vaccine reduces this unknown, but small number, by 20x. Some early numbers from Washington state have the breakthrough rate at 0.01%. Also, if you are vaccinated, your probability of developing serious disease symptoms that lead to hospitalization and possibly death is essentially zero. By any objective measure, the vaccines are extremely effective at doing what we would hope they would do; prevent serious disease and death.

Because you can infect people who have not had vaccine. Also the vaccine is not approved for children less than 12 years old.

One thing to keep in mind about the CDC is that they change their recommendations as new information comes in, and new studies of COVID-19 are coming in quite often. This is the scientific method. This is the way it is supposed to be done. Thus, if what one of the directors says today differs from what the director said last week, it may be because of new data.

I received my second vaccination on February 18, and I’m so glad. I used to be pretty fanatical about wearing masks and not touching things and using hand sanitizer and keeping my distance and not going places, but I’ve relaxed that a lot, though I’m not back to normal. I wear masks when asked to because I want to be an example to others.

However, here is something to think about. The Pfizer vaccine I had is said to be 95% effective against catching COVID and probably 100% effective against getting a case requiring hospitalization. Same with Moderna. The Johnson and Johnson seems to be, what, about 70% effective against getting COVID and 100% effective against a case requiring hospitalization? But what if you don’t want to get it at all because even seemingly mild cases can have after-effects that are life changing and may not show up for a couple months?

Think about it. Don’t think about ONLY 5%. Think about FIVE PERCENT! I’ve seen people obsessing about diseases they have a one in a thousand chance of catching. Or even less. This is one chance in twenty. If you had one chance in twenty of getting, say, lung cancer or breast cancer or brain cancer or AIDS or COPD in the next MONTH or YEAR if you FILL IN THE BLANK one time, would you take the risk? If you knew that if you ride your motorcycle or horse or play softball or pickle ball you have one chance in twenty of suffering permanent injury, would you do it? Lots of people buy lottery tickets even when their chance of winning is much worse than one in a million. I never have because the odds are terrible. But if there was one chance in twenty? It would be more tempting.

I’m taking more risks now, but they are small risks, much smaller if everyone involved has been vaccinated. The chance of my catching COVID from someone else who has been vaccinated is nearly in lottery ticket territory. Would I want to work on a hospital ward treating patients with COVID? Not without a mask and gloves and gown.

Because most of the so-called "experts" that work for the gov. are Political Hacks and say what they are told to say. It is unusual for one of them to step outside of the script and tell us what they REALLY believe.
It's all about gov. control. I've been saying on here for some time that there are many real experts that say that once your vaccination kicks in, the virus is "killed" and you cannot give it to others. But, there are some on here that allow hysteria rule their lives and NEED someone one to confirm their fears....thus they wish to listen to what big brother tells them.

Very good explanation!

The graphs fail to show reality. The graphs are based on the amount of positive test results, not how many NEW infected. If one person shows a positive result, then that person returns over and over again for testing until they show a negative result. Each one of those test results are counted as an additional infected. The test results and the reporting system are both flawed.

Yeah, it's been like that since the start of this whole ordeal.

My entire family has Covid in January (we found out via antibody tests in April when the tests frst came out)

Well, an antibody test that is positive also is a Covid-19 indicator. We tested monthly, so I have, myself contributed 12 positives to the counter personally, and my family nearly 50 positives...even though Covid tests are negative...

Now what will be interesting is if I have an actual positive Covid test, now that I am vaccinated as well.

Lots of things may get me, but I am doing my best to ensure it isn't this virus!

Prove it. I've heard a bunch of folks that WILL NOT get vaccinated that insist on repeating "urban legends" but no one has provide and valid proof of those statements.

I've been inoculated and that's about as far as I go at this point in time. I do not wear my mask unless a business requires it. Sorry, but your fear mongering does not effect me. If you are scared, then stay home, period. The death rate is receding, and now someone has decided that we have to have a new boogieman, such as a new variant of the old. I am not going to become a pin cushion to make others feel all "warm and fuzzy." I have never had the flu and do not get the flu shot. If I do get the flu in the future, I probably won't get the shot at my age. I do not care what you do and encourage you to do what you feel is right for YOU. Do not presume to shame me into doing what you deem appropriate for my life, meaning that it is actually for YOUR life. Do not ever think that saying someone is not being "patriotic" like a certain clown on TV recently said, is going to effect me. After you have walked in my shoes, you can determine whether or not I am not a "patriot." If you believe everything that the gov tells you to be factual and true, then you should go ahead and line up for every vaccination available.
If you wish to criticize me, I will be the one NOT wearing a mask in public or wearing a window screen mask in stores requiring the wearing of a mask. If you have a problem with that, then stay away from me. "Selfish?" I am not the one demanding that others conform to my standards and whims. You do what you wish to do and stay your distance from me. I am more worried about catching your "stupid" than catching a flu or virus.

lf you would please take the time to read the brief, for me, post, you will see highlighted in green a link to how to do the math. I almost always include links in my posts, but not this one.

OK, it is a bit of a slippery slope. There are definitely a few people that have tested positive for Covid post-vaccination. However, the real questions should not be who tested positive, but who actually caught an active, debilitating Covid infection. Which is virtually NIL.

So my theory, probably flawed, is that these are either false positives, with no symptoms whatsoever, or they are the ones in at 4% group that the vaccine did not take. If that is the case, who's to know?

The vaccine 'takes' on 96% or so of all people. So 4% are effectively not vaccinated, even though they got the shot.

Remember the scar on the shoulder? That's how you proved you were vaccinated and the vaccine 'took'. I don't have the scar and I got the vaccine every year because they always thought I never had it.

What is interesting is that I read a study where they were testing using multiple versions of the vaccines (mix or match). Maybe that is the key to getting closer to 100% ?

Essentially, to your challenge - nobody can prove it. Nobody. Because as long as the vaccine is not 100% effective, we have zero chance of knowing if the person who got Covid actually had the vaccine 'take'.

You wanted a reference on vaccine breakthrough cases:

https://www.doh.wa.gov/Newsroom/Arti...shington-state

Lordy lordy. How can you not be aware of the many many reports of fully immunized people getting Covid. The very fact that the vaccine efficacy is NOT 100% tells you that in the licensing studies there were breakthrough cases.

Let's see what FoxNews has to say on this subject

Can I still spread the coronavirus after I'''m vaccinated? | Fox News

Their answer is yes you can including this piece of FoxNews advice:

Nobody knows how long the vaccine will last. What happens as their effectiveness starts to fade and people thinking they were protected are now vulnerable again (think annual flu vaccine). We do know masks continue to be effective. There is a valid place for both masks and vaccine until more is learn about the disease and the vaccine.

Correct - we know that 4% of the people who receive the vaccine are not actually vaccinated. The comment 'fully vaccinated' means that they had both shots.

The article also states that this is perfectly normal in ALL vaccines.

The huge majority of us have been vaccinated for Polio, small pox, diphtheria, typhoid fever and many other diseases. Did we have to wear masks then? The answer to that question should tell you all you need to know.

Fauci wants to remain relevant
 

We should consider one other answer. Fauci is a product of the MSM. He literally was at the very source of this virus. He has never been forthcoming with the facts and when he does speak about it; he flip flops on almost everything. I think he might not want to give up the spotlight. I hope I am wrong, but this man is a sorry excuse for a scientist. This is not meant as any kind of political statement.