[Clarinet]

I hope that those who are so vocal about this don't have to suffer the loss of a child to covid to make them believe this pandemic needs to be dealt with as strongly as possible.

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Google is your friend and will return many entries including these three:
Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers

An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19

Effectiveness of Mask Wearing to Control Community Spread of SARS-CoV-2

Though I have no doubt they will not be sufficient to change your opinion.

I was surprised to find no articles reporting that masks do not help. None said masks were 100% effective but I did not notice any that said masks were 10)% ineffective.

Apparently Google is NOT your friend.

Link 1: A poorly designed study with too many unknown behavior variables: They found a diference of a whopping 0.3% between mask and no mask.

Link 2: Quote: Overall, evidence from RCTs and observational studies is informative, but not compelling on its own. None of the studies looked specifically at cloth masks.

Therefore, we should not be surprised to find that there is no RCT for the impact of masks on community transmission of any respiratory infection in a pandemic.

Link 3: Yikes! The eleven sources listed in in the left-most column in the table, four list outcomes beginning with the word, “Estimated….” Another three sources, different from the four I just mentioned, describe interventions as, “Self-reporting….” “Self-reporting” and “Estimated” are not terms I associate with objective, replicable data.

Google tip: If you search for "studies that show masks work" you won't see something like this:

Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data

Dr. Brosseau is a national expert on respiratory protection and infectious diseases and professor (retired), University of Illinois at Chicago.
Dr. Sietsema is also an expert on respiratory protection and an assistant professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

COMMENTARY: Masks-for-all for COVID-19 not based on sound data | CIDRAP

If the science is over your head. just look at some graphs that show real world results



Hawaii is an island, can control incoming travel, has had the longest lockdown of any state, and has over 80% mask compliance.

More graphs showing covid vs masks. Covid keeps winning

https://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/67...LY_BRADLEY.pdf

[TSO/ISPF]

Originally Posted by Clarinet

I hope that those who are so vocal about this don't have to suffer the loss of a child to covid to make them believe this pandemic needs to be dealt with as strongly as possible.

Whatever the imposition or infringement on their freedoms, it seems to me to leave the decision on wearing a mask to school for kids and their parents invites trouble. Let's just error on the side of safety until this virus is gone. Freedom requires sacrifice some times. Let's just get rid of this virus.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

It is unfortunate that the state is choosing to pursue this. They should let it go (allow the mask mandates) until the surge in cases and hospitalizations is over. Sure, it's not what the governor wants, but he's likely to be worse off in the end.

The farther this is pursued, the harder the federal government is going to push. This is now likely to go to the US Supreme court to decide something that should have been obvious in the first place. Not only that, but the fed govt is now looking for other ways to override the governor including a lawsuit based on discrimination against disabled students. It is a foolish lawsuit that will likely set a precedent for the future and it could have been avoided.

The anti-mask-mandate side has won the latest point but the match is not over yet. When it is, the anti-mask-mandate side may find it has lost more than just mask mandate.

But of course, it may go the other way too. We'll see.

While I agree with you, I must point out if it were "obvious in the first place", it wouldn't be going through the court battles. Obvious to whom is the obvious question??? (no pun intended)

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

No, No, No! It's that the Vaccine improves your 5G reception!

And I've personally seen people stuck to their refrigerators!

SCIENCE!

No, no. How many times do I have to tell you it is the tin foil hats?

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Predictable

Why yes, the outcome of an scientific evidence based discussion on the ability of cloth masks to deter aerosol virus is very predictable.

[jbartle1]

Would not want to be the parent that lost child after child went to school without mask and died from covid.,,, keep in mind folks, kids have no problem with mask, only parents.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

While I agree with you, I must point out if it were "obvious in the first place", it wouldn't be going through the court battles. Obvious to whom is the obvious question??? (no pun intended)

Fair enough - I should have worded that differently.

[MrFlorida]

That's what I like about Florida, it's your choice. You can ride a motorcycle without a helmet if you choose not to, it's your head right ?So it's also your choice to wear a mask.... it's all about freedom.

[PNaughton]

Originally Posted by Moderator

One more political statement and this thread too will be closed.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by MrFlorida

That's what I like about Florida, it's your choice. You can ride a motorcycle without a helmet if you choose not to, it's your head right ?So it's also your choice to wear a mask.... it's all about freedom.

Riding a motorcycle without a helmet doesn't spread a contagious and deadly disease. The only person it CAN hurt is the driver of the motorcycle.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Riding a motorcycle without a helmet doesn't spread a contagious and deadly disease. The only person it CAN hurt is the driver of the motorcycle.

And freedom doesn’t help much when your head hits the pavement.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by SkBlogW

Why yes, the outcome of an scientific evidence based discussion on the ability of cloth masks to deter aerosol virus is very predictable.

Looking at the effects on entire populations with no idea how masks were or were not used is scientific and evidence based?? For someone who demands unambiguous RCT trials to move him away from his desired opinion you certainly have a different standard for "evidence" in support of your opinion.

I'm still looking over the papers referenced in the report. Oddly, the one at the bottom, "the world's only randomized trial," presents data that seems to show masks work for coronavirus.

Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.

Now this study was looking at surgical masks and not cloth masks and the sample size was small. I can't figure out why the author of the larger paper included it as if it supported his position.

Thanks for forwarding this, it is interesting reading.

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Looking at the effects on entire populations with no idea how masks were or were not used is scientific and evidence based?? For someone who demands unambiguous RCT trials to move him away from his desired opinion you certainly have a different standard for "evidence" in support of your opinion.

I'm still looking over the papers referenced in the report. Oddly, the one at the bottom, "the world's only randomized trial," presents data that seems to show masks work for coronavirus.

Our results indicate that surgical face masks could prevent transmission of human coronaviruses and influenza viruses from symptomatic individuals.

Now this study was looking at surgical masks and not cloth masks and the sample size was small. I can't figure out why the author of the larger paper included it as if it supported his position.

Thanks for forwarding this, it is interesting reading.

If you are talking about my link to the CIDRAP article, feel free to read all the papers referenced. However, the two Doctors who wrote the article are very experienced in infectious respiratory diseases and here's what they say after looking at all the referenced studies.

A recent pooled analysis of two earlier trials comparing medical masks ( surgical) and N95 filtering facepiece respirators with controls (no protection) found that healthcare workers continuously wearing N95 FFRs were 54% less likely to experience respiratory viral infections than controls (P = 0.03), while those wearing medical masks were only 12% less likely than controls (P = 0.48; result is not significantly different from zero)


A randomized trial comparing the effect of medical (surgical) and cloth masks on healthcare worker illness found that those wearing cloth masks were 13 times more likely to experience influenza-like illness than those wearing medical masks.38

So cloth masks are completely worthless, and surgical masks statistically no different than zero compared to N95.

These data suggest that surgical masks worn by the public will have no or very low impact on disease transmission during a pandemic.

All of the cloth masks and materials had near zero efficiency at 0.3 µm, a particle size that easily penetrates into the lungs

A cloth mask or face covering does very little to prevent the emission or inhalation of small particles. As discussed in an earlier CIDRAP commentary and more recently by Morawska and Milton (2020) in an open letter to WHO signed by 239 scientists, inhalation of small infectious particles is not only biologically plausible, but the epidemiology supports it as an important mode of transmission for SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.

PS As far as the graphs showing cases versus when mask mandates were issued is not an RCT study. But it is real world data. I doubt you can find a country or state anywhere where surges in cases were stopped by masks mandates. All you need to do is look up a case graph for any location, and then google when they mandated masks and look what happened after.

Except for N95, they just don't work. N95 masks are cheap now, advise you use one when you are indoors with other people. And they are not bulletproof.

[JSR22]

Put all the maskless children in their own classrooms and let them infect each other. Keep them away from the children wearing masks.