[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Byte1

CRT a science? OK, then relegate the science of CRT to a Sociology course, not children's basic curriculum.
I do not totally agree with those that suggest that not knowing the past will cause one to repeat those mistakes again. History, maybe but theory makes many suppositions.

You took my quote out of context. The post I was referring to, and my post were talking about history and the study of documents to try to determine what happened centuries ago. I was referring to a person who denigrated the study of history and lumped it together with CRT.

I did NOT say or mean that CRT is a science.

I agree with you, that knowing the past doesn't encourage one to repeat it, in fact, I believe that studying the past - history - truth (as close as we can determine) will help us not repeat the past mistakes and atrocities.

A theory is a tool used by science that by definition accepts that it may not be perfect or "truth". However, a theory is useful because it makes predictions and explanations of phenomena. The better the theory the more accurate the predictions or conclusions. It is used by science but is not necessarily true or facts. Very little in science is actually truth or facts, most of science is theory. (some like believe it is all theory.)

For example, our use of electricity is based on a theory, and it is useful in our daily lives. But there is little doubt that it is just a theory and actually not how electricity actually works.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Byte1

I have no problem with "honest discussions" but I do have a problem with little children bringing homework home that indicates an inherent victim or racist "theory" taught to indoctrinate them. Leave "honest discussion" to more mature students, not little minds that have no experience or foundation for this propaganda. Do not presume to indoctrinate children using the guise of diversity or equality, when the whole premise is to push ideology.

This is a very interesting post, and I would completely agree if you had left out two words - indoctrinate and premise.

You are making an assumption of negative intent on the part of educators. My daughter is a teacher and I can assure you she has NO negative intent and simply does her best to help children.

The rest of your post I find a much more useful discussion - at what age should things be taught to children. Is knowledge age appropriate? I tend to agree with your position that some things are better taught when a child is better able to use critical thinking to evaluate the information being taught.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by JerryLBell

From what I've read, critical race theory is really two ideas.

The first is that the very idea of race is not based on biology or science of any kind. There's nothing about the physiology of humans that neatly divides humanity into categories like "white", "black", "Asian", etc. The attempts to divide people into these categories were done societally, not scientifically.

The second idea is that American history shows us that governments put in place in the Americas by European settlers were and continue to be racist in nature. To steal land away from the indigenous people, governments put into place laws that made those peoples have fewer or any rights and encouraged the suppression of those peoples. Prior to the industrial revolution, manual labor was vital and slave labor was cheaper than paid labor, so laws were put into place to allow kidnapping, torturing and enslaving peoples from other countries, especially Africa. Laws were put into place over time to exclude Asians. During World War II, people of Japanese heritage were robbed of their properties and imprisoned while people of German heritage were not. Even after the emancipation of enslaved people in America, voting rights were suppressed and continue to be so to this day.

Critical race theory doesn't paint an artificially pretty picture of American history or governance. If you read history deeply, however, it is probably a more accurate picture. Does this divide people? Possibly. Some people are averse to learning unpleasant truths. I've always thought that true patriotism wasn't blindly loving ones country, right or wrong but rather wanting the best for and out of ones country, realizing when ones country was wrong or doing wrong and changing it for the better even if that involves discomfort and hard work.

America isn't perfect and never was. It gets better over time, despite occasional backsliding. I hope it continues to get better and better in the future. Pretending we are and have been perfect won't help us get there.

But that's just my opinion.

I’m curious, how do you feel black voters are “suppressed” today?

[rlcooper70]

If you simplify CRT you get to your conclusions. IF you look more closely you will that those pushing it are trying to bring a conversation into society ... a conversation about how we look at people of a different race. Have they pushed it too far ... perhaps. Yet the conversation has to happen one way or another.

Perhaps we can ignore the concept of white privilege ... meaning that perhaps we can put it off further .... yet even the tax laws were designed for our benefit ... take capital gains ... in 1921 Southern Democrats got together with that one and reduced taxes for people with money ... the privilege of already having money allows us to pay lower taxes .... creates more of an advantage for the divide of wealth .... transfers economic growth upward to the most wealthy. Too complicated? Sorry.

Point = CRT as a concept ... trying to bring racism into a conversation .... perhaps its gone too far .... but the conversation taking place has to be embraced. Our history is our history and rewriting it makes no sense.

[rlcooper70]

You ask if the black vote is being suppressed today?

Take a look at the restrictions in the Georgia law .... they closed two out of three polling places in the black areas of the inner city. Duh. "Restrict" is a word with a meaning. Closing polling stations is a "restriction". Pretty simple.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

Curious why this is being pushed in our schools? This seems like it is designed to divide our country.

Surprised this thread has been allowed this long. Sadly, there is no question our country is perhaps more divided than since the civil war.

My view a major problem is what we allow. The teacher's union as a group is far left.
Any opposing view will be snuffed out. Charter schools has been proposed. We have one in the Villages and it is one of the top schools. For some a solution. My view I try to see pluses and minuses of every issue. Charter schools would mean that the best students would leave the public school system. The public school system would be left with the worst student population.

Our constitution is a miracle. Imagine written by humans, no internet, no cell phones, heck a pen was a sharpened feather. Law is being tied into knots. Freedom of speech,
right to gather, no state religion all in the First Amendment. Many on both sides of the divide need to read it. It does not say freedom to agree with me, right to gather only if you agree with me, or the right to have a faith so long as it is mine.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

From my perspective, MOST of the posts here are the opposite of this. There seem to be maybe 2 or 3 posts supporting the conservative view to every post supporting the liberal view. Many of the conservative posts are short and just toss out a one-liner dog whistle.

And should we are a right-wing label like fascist? Since conservatives like to add socialist or Marxist to the liberal label - I mean, fair is fair after all.

Other than that, I agree with everything else in your post.

I cannot respond to your post without making this political, so I will merely suggest that you look up the definition of "fascist." You will see that there is no identifiable correlation between the conservative ideology and fascism.

CRT is political and probably violates the theme of this forum. I wish there was some way that this could be discussed without politics, but since CRT is purely political, it is impossible.

[Joe C.]

Divide and conquer. That's the goal.

We are not responsible for the acts of those who were here before us.
When someone's parents die, they are not responsible to pay their debts.

Slavery was acceptable in the past around most of the world.

The only reason people decided that slavery wasn't needed was because of the industrial revolution.

Slavery still exists in other countries.....China for example. So if anything you have has a label that says "Made in China", then it is quite possible that by your actions, you are approving and causing the continuance of slavery there.

So if some of us would get off our "high horse", and some of us would quit whining about how bad we have it because of our color, and all of us put on our "big boy shoes" and accept that all have made mistakes in the past, we wouldn't have a problem.

[Bucco]

An awful lot of posters evidently never even heard about CRT until it was made a target of a certain faction. It is a selected agenda item for 2022, and is being wrapped in such different wrappings that are not real.

It has been around for 40 years....not new, and it appears from some of the comments on here, the hard right extremists have made it into something it's not, nor never been.

It is no wonder that almost all the top threats to our country are labeled as coming from the same direction.

To attack teachers, and suggest subject matter should be in the control of elected officials is inexcusable, offensive and with zero credibility. To utter a word like Marxism in the same breath shows the impact of certain cable networks, and social media.

Teach the truth about history. Not teaching feelings, but facts that did happen. What civilization restricts accounts of their history to its young people ?

But begin by studying what CRT means, academically, not defined by elected officials, stop attacking something you obviously don't understand

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Joe C.

Divide and conquer. That's the goal.

We are not responsible for the acts of those who were here before us.
When someone's parents die, they are not responsible to pay their debts.

Slavery was acceptable in the past around most of the world.

The only reason people decided that slavery wasn't needed was because of the industrial revolution.

Slavery still exists in other countries.....China for example. So if anything you have has a label that says "Made in China", then it is quite possible that by your actions, you are approving and causing the continuance of slavery there.

So if some of us would get off our "high horse", and some of us would quit whining about how bad we have it because of our color, and all of us put on our "big boy shoes" and accept that all have made mistakes in the past, we wouldn't have a problem.

But the question here is ...Do we tell the truth or simply ignore mistakes ?

[GOLFER54]

What happen to Teaching our youth Math, Science, Geography and English? Putting political teachings should not be allowed.

[Jokomo]

Sounds like some think Manifest Destiny is a good thing and not the genocide of entire nations.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Byte1

I cannot respond to your post without making this political, so I will merely suggest that you look up the definition of "fascist." You will see that there is no identifiable correlation between the conservative ideology and fascism.

CRT is political and probably violates the theme of this forum. I wish there was some way that this could be discussed without politics, but since CRT is purely political, it is impossible.

Never ever was political until about 6 months ago when it was decided, and very openly by the way, that this was an issue to attach a few phrases like "Marxist" and use in 2022.

So we agree this is being made into something it's not, or shouldn't be.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by rlcooper70

You ask if the black vote is being suppressed today?

Take a look at the restrictions in the Georgia law .... they closed two out of three polling places in the black areas of the inner city. Duh. "Restrict" is a word with a meaning. Closing polling stations is a "restriction". Pretty simple.

Sadly, hate is a powerful yet mindless emotion. Far to many parrot what they are fed.

As far as suppressed vote. The effort to vote is minimal. Nothing is can or will be perfect
and yet we spin reality to support what we want.

The reality, is shockingly interesting. I am very much against reality suppression and am regularly shocked to discover the difference between what people scream and reality.
We tend to divide our people into groups. Sadly no other way to speak but not all Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, Orientals, I do not mean to not list all but I hope it makes the point, think or vote the same. To my surprise blacks have among the highest percentage of voters compared to the other groups.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by DAVES

Surprised this thread has been allowed this long. Sadly, there is no question our country is perhaps more divided than since the civil war.

My view a major problem is what we allow. The teacher's union as a group is far left.
Any opposing view will be snuffed out. Charter schools has been proposed. We have one in the Villages and it is one of the top schools. For some a solution. My view I try to see pluses and minuses of every issue. Charter schools would mean that the best students would leave the public school system. The public school system would be left with the worst student population.

Our constitution is a miracle. Imagine written by humans, no internet, no cell phones, heck a pen was a sharpened feather. Law is being tied into knots. Freedom of speech,
right to gather, no state religion all in the First Amendment. Many on both sides of the divide need to read it. It does not say freedom to agree with me, right to gather only if you agree with me, or the right to have a faith so long as it is mine.

If you are saying that the pubic school system would be left with those that are of lower education, or have more difficulty in school, then that would also be a plus. Good students SHOULD progress to higher grade levels or learning pressures. We have a grade levels for a reason. We usually base them mostly upon age, but learning ability and knowledge is also a possibility. More attention should be put on those that have difficulty in learning and more devices and mechanism utilized for those that need special attention. That way, those that have more ability can progress at their own speed without becoming bored while waiting for others to catch up. Diversification should not be qualified by learning ability. Putting fast learners with slow learners only makes the fast learners stagnant, due to being forced to governor their learning speed. It is not the fast learners charter to teach the slow learners, it's the teacher's mandate to teach. Having levels of learning in school is a good thing or we would be back to one room schools again. This is a case where segregation (of ability) is a good thing.
I am totally FOR charter schools, as well as private schools.