[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I have a feeling if we could all see the actual, individual cases of each person who has died from Covid only and not those who were at death’s door you would be stunned by the actual numbers.

I agree. There is a difference between dying from Covid and dying with Covid.

I have an uncle that died with Covid. He was 93 years old. He went into the hospital for a heart condition. After surgery he was sent to rehab where he fell and broke his hip. After that he was told that he had contracted Covid and he died shortly thereafter.

The problem is that who knows if the Coivd killed him or if his death was the result of his heart surgery or even the broken hip. I've heard many cases of elderly people dying shortly after breaking a hip.

In the case of my uncle, an autopsy was not performed so the cause of deaths was listed as Covid. But who knows? He was 93. He could have died of natural causes.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Another reason you missed... some were forced to work through the full pandemic with people around them going out occasionally from work with covid. They make more than minimum wages but lower middle income. They are younger, survived and don’t want the vaccination at this point. For all they know, they’ve had it and were asymptomatic. They aren’t home collecting the lovely handouts for not working.

I don't consider that a reason mostly because I fall squarely into that category of people, and I got vaccinated.

I'm younger (not even 60 yet). I worked at Publix from February 2020 til mid-December 2020, making more than minimum wage (I started at $13.20 and asked to transfer to a lower-paying department because me + stocking shelves = not a good match, final pay was $11/hour). I'm SURE I was exposed to it, there were enough people who refused to mask or social distance, who came in with the sniffles or just had something stuck in their throat and were coughing while I was bagging their groceries, etc. I'm sure if I had left there saying I was too worried about Covid, I could've taken advantage of the PEUC money and unemployment compensation.

But I left because I developed bursitis in my hip on top of osteoporosis and just can't work standing still for any length of time, and the job required that I do a lot of standing still. I was honest, and chose to not even try collecting unemployment. We definitely could've used the money but eh - not worth the headache filling out the forms.

But no, I don't count people who don't "want" to get vaccinated as a "reason" for not getting vaccinated.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I agree. There is a difference between dying from Covid and dying with Covid.

I have an uncle that died with Covid. He was 93 years old. He went into the hospital for a heart condition. After surgery he was sent to rehab where he fell and broke his hip. After that he was told that he had contracted Covid and he died shortly thereafter.

The problem is that who knows if the Coivd killed him or if his death was the result of his heart surgery or even the broken hip. I've heard many cases of elderly people dying shortly after breaking a hip.

In the case of my uncle, an autopsy was not performed so the cause of deaths was listed as Covid. But who knows? He was 93. He could have died of natural causes.

You’re right, the stories out there about Covid deaths are fascinating. Your uncle, God rest his soul, would have probably died from any type of flu or even pneumonia from the surgery at that point.

[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

snipped
Put another way, what is the defense, if any, for those who are criticized for being selfish and preventing herd immunity by refusing to get the vaccine?

*US Coronavirus Vaccine Progress Tracker | Vaccinations by State | USAFacts
**How Far Are We From COVID-19 Herd Immunity? – Reason.com

Seems I have heard this quote before - "My body - my choice"!

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I don't consider that a reason mostly because I fall squarely into that category of people, and I got vaccinated.

I'm younger (not even 60 yet). I worked at Publix from February 2020 til mid-December 2020, making more than minimum wage (I started at $13.20 and asked to transfer to a lower-paying department because me + stocking shelves = not a good match, final pay was $11/hour). I'm SURE I was exposed to it, there were enough people who refused to mask or social distance, who came in with the sniffles or just had something stuck in their throat and were coughing while I was bagging their groceries, etc. I'm sure if I had left there saying I was too worried about Covid, I could've taken advantage of the PEUC money and unemployment compensation.

But I left because I developed bursitis in my hip on top of osteoporosis and just can't work standing still for any length of time, and the job required that I do a lot of standing still. I was honest, and chose to not even try collecting unemployment. We definitely could've used the money but eh - not worth the headache filling out the forms.

But no, I don't count people who don't "want" to get vaccinated as a "reason" for not getting vaccinated.

Try working in a factory with average temps between high eighties to the nineties doing heavy lifting and forced to wear a face mask. They didn’t have the luxury of opting to stay home.

If they don’t want the vaccine, they have my support even though I have had both doses months ago.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Seems I have heard this quote before - "My body - my choice"!

That phrase pertains to the right of a woman to decide what happens to her body, with regards to pregnancy.

Unless you can catch pregnancy from a pregnant woman, that phrase doesn't apply. At all. Not even a little, almost.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Try working in a factory with average temps between high eighties to the nineties doing heavy lifting and forced to wear a face mask.

If they don’t want the vaccine, they have my support even though I have had both doses months ago.

I worked outside, in blistering hot 90-degree weather when the humidity was visible in the air, for 6 hours a day, yanking shopping carts from the parking lot and rolling them over a blacktop so hot you'd get 2nd degree burns on your feet if you tried walking barefoot on the shift, and I had to wear a face mask. And gloves.

"I don't want to" is not an excuse to not vaccinate. It's not even a reason. It's childish.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I worked outside, in blistering hot 90-degree weather when the humidity was visible in the air, for 6 hours a day, yanking shopping carts from the parking lot and rolling them over a blacktop so hot you'd get 2nd degree burns on your feet if you tried walking barefoot on the shift, and I had to wear a face mask. And gloves.

"I don't want to" is not an excuse to not vaccinate. It's not even a reason. It's childish.

What is childish is the hysterical attempt to vaccinate everyone when the death numbers are questionable and the final effects of the untested vaccine aren’t in. Unless you recovered carts from the lot all day long 40 hrs a week with additional mandatory overtime, there is no comparison.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That phrase pertains to the right of a woman to decide what happens to her body, with regards to pregnancy.

Unless you can catch pregnancy from a pregnant woman, that phrase doesn't apply. At all. Not even a little, almost.

That phrase covers everything for everyone, can’t you see that?

[CFrance]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Seems I have heard this quote before - "My body - my choice"!

Yeah, and we're seeing where people are trying to go with that.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Lol, nothing is “supplanted”. If the vaccine is as effective as declared, unvaccinated people will have no effect on the vaccinated. That “community” will have their butts covered, right? That’s where the distortion begins, when the government tells citizens it knows what is best for them.

I assume then you do not believe that you, as an individual, have any responsibility TO the community, and government doing what they swore an oath do do...protect the all of us is offensive.

If they did not share what they think is a threat to the "community", would you be fine with that.

I am not going to heed the advice of politicians, on line "experts" from dubious web sites, or any forum like TOTV.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bucco

I assume then you do not believe that you, as an individual, have any responsibility TO the community, and government doing what they swore an oath do do...protect the all of us is offensive.

If they did not share what they think is a threat to the "community", would you be fine with that.

I am not going to heed the advice of politicians, on line "experts" from dubious web sites, or any forum like TOTV.

We have a far greater threat with the invasion of our southern border but you are fine with that?

The community that is convinced they want the vaccination is not threatened, the others are not convinced by the veiled Covid numbers and vetted vaccine and they have their American rights choice.

[RedChariot]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I will not sugar coat my stance........No defense at all for the anti-vaxxers. They are essentially clueless and heartless to the urgency of stopping this virus in its tracks. Anti-vaxxers will be THE reason our country cannot achieve SAVE herd immunity.

As an aside......I do not include those who can not be vaccinated due to medical issues. That is unfortunate for them that they can not achieve the protection the vaccines offer.

I have no patience for those who claim "religious reasons for not taking the vaccine". Religion should take a back seat to public safety. Sorry if that offends anyone.

Anti-vaxxers only care about themselves. Its me, me, me. All your points are well taken.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by RedChariot

Anti-vaxxers only care about themselves. Its me, me, me. All your points are well taken.

As we walk on toward the goal of loss of individual freedom...

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Aces4

We have a far greater threat with the invasion of our southern border but you are fine with that?

The community that is convinced they want the vaccination is not threatened, the others are not convinced by the veiled Covid numbers and vetted vaccine and they have their American rights choice.

I am certainly not a wordsmith which is obvious, but seems to me you use a lot of what I THINK is called indefinite adjectives (far greater, not threatened, not convinced, veiled Covid numbers) ALL of them quite debatable, but that seems to be the way at present.

You know, like "people' tell me.....that kind of verbage