[njbchbum]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That phrase pertains to the right of a woman to decide what happens to her body, with regards to pregnancy.

Unless you can catch pregnancy from a pregnant woman, that phrase doesn't apply. At all. Not even a little, almost.

So you are declaring that the phrase can only be used re a woman's rights re pregnancy? LOLOLOL

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bucco

"It is true, however, that the government will pay more to hospitals for COVID-19 cases in two senses: By paying an additional 20% on top of traditional Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients during the public health emergency, and by reimbursing hospitals for treating the uninsured patients with the disease (at that enhanced Medicare rate).

Both of those provisions stem from the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act, or CARES Act."

Hospital Payments and the COVID-19 Death Count - FactCheck.org

Gee, thanks for the advice, but you could have done that.

See, now I don't have to say "people tell me" but say Aces4 told me, fact I already knew it is aside. And I watch very little TV news

I don’t watch any of the skewed news anymore and I only read reliable sources.

So happy you figured out you could have done that research on your own without doubting other posters who aren’t interested in holding your hand.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Aces4

You need to read the post to which I responded which in essence states I’m making up the information I shared. Did you know hospitals were reimbursed at a higher rate if the death was diagnosed from Covid. There’s more, perform an internet search for these reimbursements and ventilator usage which now may be associated with higher death rates.

Turn off the TV and get to reliable fact checker sites, do some research.

I have read some, maybe not all, of your posts, and I'm basically on YOUR SIDE, Aces, so the condescension is really a little misplaced.

I'm well aware of the overrepresentation of Covid deaths and I don't watch TV - especially cable news!

I had an interest in your comment about asking health care providers and I didn't know if your take was that they could support or refute certain information. If you don't want to answer, that's fine.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I don’t watch any of the skewed news anymore and I only read reliable sources.

So happy you figured out you could have done that research on your own without doubting other posters who aren’t interested in holding your hand.

I have never watched news on tv, especially any cable channels. Lazy man's way.

So, where did you get your information on Medicaire paying more for Covid deaths. I would scratch them off your list as reliable, certainly don't understand the beaming of contexr

See, now "people will say" you taught me that. LOL But as i said, i knew that even though "a lot of people have been saying" on here what they heard on cable news spchannel and swore it was another conspiracy.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

No, that isn't a defense. Anyone can read anything on the internet to support what they WANT to do. I can find plenty of "research papers" (needs the quotation marks to emphasize how laughable that is, in context) to prove that vaccines are foolproof, that no one ever died as a direct result of a vaccine, and that the data proves that there will be 100% immunity if everyone is vaccinated.

The fact that you read this somewhere, it not a good or valid reason or defense in favor of vaccination. But you can find it on the internet.

When people say they researched something, on an internet forum, they USUALLY mean "I did a bing/google search and clicked the top 3 responses from the search" or "I skimmed the wikipedia entry" or "I read it on pubmed.

That's not research. I think people have forgotten what actual research is.

But no, reading somewhere that A=True is not a "defense" for not being vaccinated. However, I still acknowledge that they might be confused with what's true and what isn't true, and that would cause them some hesitation. I refer you back to point #1 for that.

But...but...didn't you make your vaccine decisions based on what you read and heard? What's the difference? There are sufficiently reliable sources for both sides of the issue.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

But...but...didn't you make your vaccine decisions based on what you read and heard? What's the difference? There are sufficiently reliable sources for both sides of the issue.

I made my decision based on a combination of science and evidence.

1. CDC recommendations.
2. Having to experience my sister being sick with COVID and wondering if she'd end up in the hospital (she wasn't - she was one of the "lucky" ones who "only" has lasting effects in her lungs because of the virus)
3. Having had vaccines in the past, and being personally comfortable with the concept of getting a vaccine.
4. Recognizing that this is, in fact, a situation where I can play russian roulette with the gun pointed at the rest of the world by NOT ensuring that I'm immune, or I can play russian roulette with the gun pointed at my own temple, and choosing to favor society with an unknown risk to myself. I have to choose either way. I choose to favor society.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

I have read some, maybe not all, of your posts, and I'm basically on YOUR SIDE, Aces, so the condescension is really a little misplaced.

I'm well aware of the overrepresentation of Covid deaths and I don't watch TV - especially cable news!

I had an interest in your comment about asking health care providers and I didn't know if your take was that they could support or refute certain information. If you don't want to answer, that's fine.

Yeah, when I reread my post is does read as condescending, sorry for that. I meant to imply I personally don’t believe mainstream media reporting and was suggesting you do research on verifiable online sources. The deaths from Covid for people with co-morbidity factors is skewed because so many of those people were at deaths door without that diagnosis. The Covid death factor would be sooo much lower if hospitals would have been paid regular payments.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

4. Recognizing that this is, in fact, a situation where I can play russian roulette with the gun pointed at the rest of the world by NOT ensuring that I'm immune, or I can play russian roulette with the gun pointed at my own temple, and choosing to favor society with an unknown risk to myself. I have to choose either way. I choose to favor society.

And for that you are a hero, and perhaps braver than my friend, if you’re being honest.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Yeah, when I reread my post is does read as condescending, sorry for that. I meant to imply I personally don’t believe mainstream media reporting and was suggesting you do research on verifiable online sources. The deaths from Covid for people with co-morbidity factors is skewed because so many of those people were at deaths door without that diagnosis. The Covid death factor would be sooo much lower if hospitals would have been paid fewer dollars for that do.

Yes, were you the one that said something like the number of Covid deaths would look much different if those already at death’s door were excluded from the numbers? I couldn’t agree more.

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Recognizing that this is, in fact, a situation where I can play russian roulette with the gun pointed at the rest of the world by NOT ensuring that I'm immune, or I can play russian roulette with the gun pointed at my own temple, and choosing to favor society with an unknown risk to myself. I have to choose either way. I choose to favor society.

I think this is exactly the choice people feel they are faced with. There is not enough long term evidence either way. New developments are being found every day.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Haven’t talked with anyone in those positions, eh? I thought so. In twenty years from now when we’re all dead, there will be much exposed from this saga. Can Covid19 be deadly, absolutely, but not nearly as deadly as has been reported. Families have argued with hospitals saying their loved one didn’t die from the Covid virus but there is no changing what they report.

Originally Posted by Aces4

Yeah, when I reread my post is does read as condescending, sorry for that. I meant to imply I personally don’t believe mainstream media reporting and was suggesting you do research on verifiable online sources. The deaths from Covid for people with co-morbidity factors is skewed because so many of those people were at deaths door without that diagnosis. The Covid death factor would be sooo much lower if hospitals would have been paid fewer dollars for that do.

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

Yes, were you the one that said something like the number of Covid deaths would look much different if those already at death’s door were excluded from the numbers? I couldn’t agree more.

Do you dispute that nearly 600,000 more people died in the US in 2020 than in 2019, 2018, or 2017?

If we can accept the data from the States, as aggregated and reported by both the CDC, JHU, and the Covid Tracking Project then how can the 600,000 additional deaths be explained if they were not due to Covid? Did the hospitals cause those deaths in their effort to collect the extra per-patient reimbursement?

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

Yes, were you the one that said something like the number of Covid deaths would look much different if those already at death’s door were excluded from the numbers? I couldn’t agree more.

The bottom line with this whole scenario is how people are willing to roll over and give government permission to take away individual freedom in America.

What’s next, mandatory birth control, mandatory Gardasil vaccinations for children so sexual partners may be unlimited.

You get the picture and I’m signing off. Civil liberties are on the line. BTW, for the record,it’s predicted the next pandemic may be far worse.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Do you dispute that nearly 600,000 more people died in the US in 2020 than in 2019, 2018, or 2017?

If we can accept the data from the States, as aggregated and reported by both the CDC, JHU, and the Covid Tracking Project then how can the 600,000 additional deaths be explained if they were not due to Covid? Did the hospitals cause those deaths in their effort to collect the extra per-patient reimbursement?

Persuasive information Bill. Thanks for posting. I had forgotten about that data and it appears to be true.

I’m nothing if not open minded and willing to change my tune as conditions warrant.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Do you dispute that nearly 600,000 more people died in the US in 2020 than in 2019, 2018, or 2017?

If we can accept the data from the States, as aggregated and reported by both the CDC, JHU, and the Covid Tracking Project then how can the 600,000 additional deaths be explained if they were not due to Covid? Did the hospitals cause those deaths in their effort to collect the extra per-patient reimbursement?

The increased number of deaths, according to CNBC, was 528,000. That’s quite a distance from 600,000.


Covid was third cause of death in the USA after heart disease and cancer with the highest recordings at the beginning of the pandemic and at the winter holiday period in December. Not included in those numbers were suicides related to the isolation, untreated medical conditions because people were too afraid to see their physicians and improper treatment of Covid cases.

I know of one woman with severe heart disease who caught it earlier in the pandemic and died. I know at least a dozen people who survived Covid and are fine with their children unaffected by it. Can it be deadly, yes. Should we allow our government to take away the civil liberty of vaccination choice, NO!

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Yeah, when I reread my post is does read as condescending, sorry for that. I meant to imply I personally don’t believe mainstream media reporting and was suggesting you do research on verifiable online sources. The deaths from Covid for people with co-morbidity factors is skewed because so many of those people were at deaths door without that diagnosis. The Covid death factor would be sooo much lower if hospitals would have been paid regular payments.

"The true facts are that COVID-19 deaths will likely be underreported on death certificates and not over-reported,” Aiken said. “This will be especially true as deaths that occur in homes, and not the hospital, mount. Not all jurisdictions are able to test home deaths with typical symptoms for COVID-19.”

Social Media Posts Make Baseless Claim on COVID-19 Death Toll - FactCheck.org