[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bucco

"The true facts are that COVID-19 deaths will likely be underreported on death certificates and not over-reported,” Aiken said. “This will be especially true as deaths that occur in homes, and not the hospital, mount. Not all jurisdictions are able to test home deaths with typical symptoms for COVID-19.”

Social Media Posts Make Baseless Claim on COVID-19 Death Toll - FactCheck.org

This gets funnier and funnier to me. I wonder if they have checked under all the rugs, hmmmm.

If you want the vaccine, get it.

If people elect not to receive the vaccine which hasn’t been thoroughly tested, butt out and leave them alone. This isn’t a communist country... yet.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Aces4

The bottom line with this whole scenario is how people are willing to roll over and give government permission to take away individual freedom in America.

What’s next, mandatory birth control, mandatory Gardasil vaccinations for children so sexual partners may be unlimited.

You get the picture and I’m signing off. Civil liberties are on the line. BTW, for the record,it’s predicted the next pandemic may be far worse.

With all due respect. Well,

The government is notvrequiring anything...nothing.

None of your "general" phrases are required, not threatened in any way.

You buy into whatever thenconspiracy folks throw out there, yet you brag on your sources.

Civil liberties, despite " what you hear" are not on the line.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by Bucco

With all due respect. Well,

The government is notvrequiring anything...nothing.

None of your "general" phrases are required, not threatened in any way.

You buy into whatever thenconspiracy folks throw out there, yet you brag on your sources.

Civil liberties, despite " what you hear" are not on the line.

I see comprehension is a factor so let me explain it to you, posters on this site are willing to have covid vaccinations mandated by the government. That’s not general so I’ll explain that, it’s not a conspiracy, it is a willingness for people to relinquish a civil liberty to the government. That’s not what this country is about and I brag about nothing but that’s your tactic.

Read your source’s report, Aiken, on February 18, 2021 in the AAMC which indicates the muddiness of covid 19 assessments in death. You know, the source you “brag” about...

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Aces4

The increased number of deaths, according to CNBC, was 528,000. That’s quite a distance from 600,000.


Covid was third cause of death in the USA after heart disease and cancer with the highest recordings at the beginning of the pandemic and at the winter holiday period in December. Not included in those numbers were suicides related to the isolation, untreated medical conditions because people were too afraid to see their physicians and improper treatment of Covid cases.

I know of one woman with severe heart disease who caught it earlier in the pandemic and died. I know at least a dozen people who survived Covid and are fine with their children unaffected by it. Can it be deadly, yes. Should we allow our government to take away the civil liberty of vaccination choice, NO!

Wow that herring is ENORMOUS. And bright bloody crimson. No mistaking it for anything else.

1. 'Refusing Vaccination" is not on the list of "civil rights."
2. If you mean "my body my choice," I have a few states you need to explain Roe v. Wade to, before we can go a single step further on THAT path.
3. The government is not trying to mandate vaccines. So even if "refusing vaccines" was one of your civil rights, AND even if "my body my choice" was true Nationwide, it's a moot point. That's the red herring I was talking about. The first two points just make the herring big and a brighter shade of red.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I see comprehension is a factor so let me explain it to you, posters on this site are willing to have covid vaccinations mandated by the government. That’s not general so I’ll explain that, it’s not a conspiracy, it is a willingness for people to relinquish a civil liberty to the government. That’s not what this country is about and I brag about nothing but that’s your tactic.

Read your source’s report, Aiken, on February 18, 2021 in the AAMC which indicates the muddiness of covid 19 assessments in death. You know, the source you “brag” about...

"Willingness to have the government mandate vaccines" - well first, I haven't seen anyone post that but a few folks I skim over so I probably missed it.

Second, willingness to have the government do something, is not equal to demanding that the government do something.

Third, the government isn't trying to do something.

You're turning a kitten into a crocodile.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I see comprehension is a factor so let me explain it to you, posters on this site are willing to have covid vaccinations mandated by the government. That’s not general so I’ll explain that, it’s not a conspiracy, it is a willingness for people to relinquish a civil liberty to the government. That’s not what this country is about and I brag about nothing but that’s your tactic.

Read your source’s report, Aiken, on February 18, 2021 in the AAMC which indicates the muddiness of covid 19 assessments in death. You know, the source you “brag” about...

Well, did not know "posters on this site are willing to have covid vaccinations mandated by the government.". I must have been out that day.

Since what you say is made up, it IS a conspiracy theory.

The insanity is the distortion of the truth. Saying you will not get the vaccine is fine, but this is typical of truth distortion. Nothing is mandated...never has been....and most folks on here do not tell you what is in their mind.

Perhaps based on "many people say" which has never yielded a fact yet

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Wow that herring is ENORMOUS. And bright bloody crimson. No mistaking it for anything else.

1. 'Refusing Vaccination" is not on the list of "civil rights."
2. If you mean "my body my choice," I have a few states you need to explain Roe v. Wade to, before we can go a single step further on THAT path.
3. The government is not trying to mandate vaccines. So even if "refusing vaccines" was one of your civil rights, AND even if "my body my choice" was true Nationwide, it's a moot point. That's the red herring I was talking about. The first two points just make the herring big and a brighter shade of red.

Nice drama, my body, my choice was accepted for Roe vs Wade but in other other situations we have no choice? Give me a break.

The discussion, if you followed it, was vaxxers insisting everyone follow their creed and they are more than willing to allow the government to step in and mandate vaccinations of a vaccine that has not passed all testing yet. Why would anyone give up their rights to say no to this vaccine is the question and hand that right over to the government. No red herring for you, just carp.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Do you dispute that nearly 600,000 more people died in the US in 2020 than in 2019, 2018, or 2017?

If we can accept the data from the States, as aggregated and reported by both the CDC, JHU, and the Covid Tracking Project then how can the 600,000 additional deaths be explained if they were not due to Covid? Did the hospitals cause those deaths in their effort to collect the extra per-patient reimbursement?

The death totals for the US in 2020 have not been released. There are no 600,000 additional deaths in 2020. Anyone using that figure is basing it on the assumption of the coded Covid deaths being added the the projected deaths for 2020. From the CDC’s website “Because of the time needed to investigate certain causes of death and to process and review data, final annual mortality data for a given year are typically released 11 months after the end of the calendar year.” Any death totals for 2020 are based on assumptions, not actual data...

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Bucco

With all due respect. Well,

The government is notvrequiring anything...nothing.

None of your "general" phrases are required, not threatened in any way.

You buy into whatever thenconspiracy folks throw out there, yet you brag on your sources.

Civil liberties, despite " what you hear" are not on the line.

Funny, I was just going to say the same thing, also with an abundance of respect to Aces.

Aces, this seems like a solution in search of a problem. You keep saying our civil rights are at stake and they are not. Nobody is forcing anyone to get a vaccination in the US.

I'm sure you're a very smart person, but I have to say the frequent parroting of that line sounds like you've been overly influenced by what some might say is the propaganda in the mainstream media which you claim to eschew. I mean no harm or disrespect. We are here to share information and perhaps learn something from each other.

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by RedChariot

Anti-vaxxers only care about themselves. Its me, me, me. All your points are well taken.

You nailed it. Then listening to them whine about their "liberties/civil rights being lost," yet are too ignorant to understand that other people also have the liberty to keep from being infected - doesn't ever seem to sink in with the selfish types.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

Funny, I was just going to say the same thing, also with an abundance of respect to Aces.

Aces, this seems like a solution in search of a problem. You keep saying our civil rights are at stake and they are not. Nobody is forcing anyone to get a vaccination in the US.

I'm sure you're a very smart person, but I have to say the frequent parroting of that line sounds like you've been overly influenced by what some might say is the propaganda in the mainstream media which you claim to eschew. I mean no harm or disrespect. We are here to share information and perhaps learn something from each other.

It may appear that way but I’m taking information that has been posted in previous threads. Some have even suggested being card carrying vaxxers so they can eliminate others from activities such as flying, cruising, etc. The thought here is if one is vaccinated and protected why are they insisting others do the same? This is a virus that probably will never disappear completely.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by tvbound

You nailed it. Then listening to them whine about their "liberties/civil rights being lost," yet are too ignorant to understand that other people also have the liberty to keep from being infected - doesn't ever seem to sink in with the selfish types.

“Other” people should be vaccinated and if they are “too ignorant”, (your words), to know they can’t be infected that may be their problem.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Aces4

The discussion, if you followed it, was vaxxers insisting everyone follow their creed and they are more than willing to allow the government to step in and mandate vaccinations of a vaccine that has not passed all testing yet. Why would anyone give up their rights to say no to this vaccine is the question and hand that right over to the government. No red herring for you, just carp.

Oh...now I think I understand what you're saying. Are you saying it seems we're on the verge of seeing the people - American citizens demanding that the government make vaccines mandatory? That's different than the government unilaterally mandating the vaccine from the get-go. If that's your concern, the people can demand it all they want. The federal or state governments might even give in to their demand. But a government mandate of an unapproved vaccine would never ever survive a Supreme Court challenge, especially this court.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by tvbound

You nailed it. Then listening to them whine about their "liberties/civil rights being lost," yet are too ignorant to understand that other people also have the liberty to keep from being infected - doesn't ever seem to sink in with the selfish types.

According to Fauci and other sources, both the vaccinated and unvaccinated can carry and pass on the virus. So I respectfully ask why that "doesn't ever seem to sink in" with the people that parrot the selfishness line.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

Oh...now I think I understand what you're saying. Are you saying it seems we're on the verge of seeing the people - American citizens demanding that the government make vaccines mandatory? That's different than the government unilaterally mandating the vaccine from the get-go. If that's your concern, the people can demand it all they want. The federal or state governments might even give in to their demand. But a government mandate of an unapproved vaccine would never ever survive a Supreme Court challenge, especially this court.

Yes, that’s what I am saying and I fervently hope you are correct about the courts.

As I said earlier, I was fully vaccinated 2 months ago but I am pretty amazed by the lack of civility toward people who have elected to forego vaccination at this point. I wish people would be vaccinated but certainly would not call them ignorant or worse and treat them poorly if they choose not to do so.