[Two Bills]

I am amazed at some of the stuff being bandied about regarding the worth of the vaccines.
Look at the decreasing numbers of Covid in the countries where the vacination program is going along well.
Then look at the countries where it is not.
Even to a dumb nut like me, it is obvious that vaccination is the way to go.
Check the situation at Dehli in India, and see what happens when the virus overwhelms the medical facilities.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Why should I take a vaccine that that is essentially being field tested now, where no one knows what the potential long term effects may be, when based on my age and health, according to the CDC, if I got Covid, the chances of requiring hospitalization are less than .00035?

HOW OLD ARE YOU? If you are more than 75 the chances of you dying from Covid-19 are one in ten if you get it.

Older Adults and COVID-19 | CDC

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

If you are otherwise immunized (by way of having caught COVID-19 and already possessed of the antibodies against it), then you will pose no risk to me or anyone else at all, is how I'm understanding it.

However...

Most people have not been otherwise immunized. Most people in this country have not caught COVID-19 and had the opportunity to develop an immunity to it.

Virii mutate. That is a fact. They do this, it's a thing that they do. UNLESS they are not provided with a host in which they can acquire the materials necessary for the mutation.

If most people refuse to vaccinate AND those same people are not already immune, then the virus has lots and lots of hosts to pick from, to settle down and munch on those tasty mutation-creating kibbles and bits of humanity.

Once the virus mutates sufficiently, it can then go on and infect EVERYONE. Even the people who were already vaccinated.

That is why I feel people should be vaccinated, if they are able to do so. Because I really REALLY don't want to have to go through this again.

Viruses certainly mutate. Look at the previous Covid outbreaks SARS & MERS. Both mutated. SARS lasted two years, the MERS outbreak lasted three.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

If you are otherwise immunized (by way of having caught COVID-19 and already possessed of the antibodies against it), then you will pose no risk to me or anyone else at all, is how I'm understanding it.

However...

Most people have not been otherwise immunized. Most people in this country have not caught COVID-19 and had the opportunity to develop an immunity to it.

Virii mutate. That is a fact. They do this, it's a thing that they do. UNLESS they are not provided with a host in which they can acquire the materials necessary for the mutation.

If most people refuse to vaccinate AND those same people are not already immune, then the virus has lots and lots of hosts to pick from, to settle down and munch on those tasty mutation-creating kibbles and bits of humanity.

Once the virus mutates sufficiently, it can then go on and infect EVERYONE. Even the people who were already vaccinated.

That is why I feel people should be vaccinated, if they are able to do so. Because I really REALLY don't want to have to go through this again.

There are a lot of people who don't think of others, and they feel they can't get it. You can try again and again.

Just think of the families soon who will stand by the deathbed of a family member who is dying because they refused to get the protection from the virus.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Then why the "pause" of the J&J vaccine for a few women who developed blood clots with two deaths from said blood clots? That is not "squashing" anything. They were extremely transparent about these side effects.

The difference, and it's a biggie, is that the J&J jabs were causing severe short-term side effects that could not be ignored. I believe the poster is referring to potential but still not fully known consequences in the far term - for example, the ADE situation cited a few pages ago.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

[/COLOR]

HOW OLD ARE YOU? If you are more than 75 the chances of you dying from Covid-19 are one in ten if you get it.

Older Adults and COVID-19 | CDC

I’m 61. The chance of me being hospitalized with Covid is 266.3 in 100,000. Since I am neither obese nor overweight that further reduces my chances by 87%. The fact that I do not have heart or lung disease nor am I diabetic reduces my chances even further.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Byte1

So, you are saying that she has a valid reason, with the possible same consequences as his reason, but his reason is not as valid? You do know that she can be just as much a threat to you as he is, right? Actually, I agree with both of their reasons and respect them.

Well I just did a double check on the pregnancy vs. vaccine issue and changed my mind. That's not a valid reason to reject a vaccine either, afterall.

A pregnant woman should be checking with her physician, if she has any fears about vaccines that exist to prevent a deadly virus. The fact that she doesn't know, or has fears, is absolutely valid and I respect that. But basing her decision on her fear, instead of checking to discover that it's 100% safe to vaccinate while pregnant - is not valid.

Refusing a vaccine because you're afraid, is not a valid reason to refuse a vaccine. And refusing a vaccine because you're NOT afraid, is equally invalid. Refusing because you're afraid at least is understandable, even if it's not valid. Refusing a vaccine because you don't care, is not understandable. It's confounding, perplexing, and suspicious.

[Pat2015]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Well I just did a double check on the pregnancy vs. vaccine issue and changed my mind. That's not a valid reason to reject a vaccine either, afterall.

A pregnant woman should be checking with her physician, if she has any fears about vaccines that exist to prevent a deadly virus. The fact that she doesn't know, or has fears, is absolutely valid and I respect that. But basing her decision on her fear, instead of checking to discover that it's 100% safe to vaccinate while pregnant - is not valid.

Refusing a vaccine because you're afraid, is not a valid reason to refuse a vaccine. And refusing a vaccine because you're NOT afraid, is equally invalid. Refusing because you're afraid at least is understandable, even if it's not valid. Refusing a vaccine because you don't care, is not understandable. It's confounding, perplexing, and suspicious.

There is zero chance that I’d take any of the vaccines if I was pregnant.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Well I just did a double check on the pregnancy vs. vaccine issue and changed my mind. That's not a valid reason to reject a vaccine either, afterall.

A pregnant woman should be checking with her physician, if she has any fears about vaccines that exist to prevent a deadly virus. The fact that she doesn't know, or has fears, is absolutely valid and I respect that. But basing her decision on her fear, instead of checking to discover that it's 100% safe to vaccinate while pregnant - is not valid.

Refusing a vaccine because you're afraid, is not a valid reason to refuse a vaccine. And refusing a vaccine because you're NOT afraid, is equally invalid. Refusing because you're afraid at least is understandable, even if it's not valid. Refusing a vaccine because you don't care, is not understandable. It's confounding, perplexing, and suspicious.

"Valid?" Perhaps you really mean "reasonable" as you are basing this on your opinion. Fear is a very good reason for refusing a free vaccination. I agree that folks should consider getting the shots. I am sure that many females would think twice before getting any kind of vaccinations if they are pregnant, before doing a lot of research and asking a lot of questions. They would be irresponsible (in my opinion) if they did not. A young guy refusing the vaccination does not bother me at all. I have about a dozen family members that have had the virus and shrugged it off easier than getting over a cold. If a young person is healthy, perhaps he should make way for those that are more vulnerable medically. This is not a black and white issue. Judging someone based on what you "fear" is not prudent. And that is most of what is going on right now, judging others based on opinions. Yes, opinions can be based on evidence, but some value their health and are very skeptical or suspicious of supposed "experts" that insist on medical treatment that some do not trust. A lot of young folks are refusing the vaccination. Maybe they too wonder why we are still wearing masks after being inoculated. Maybe they wonder "why bother?"

[stanley]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Interesting that you refer to his thinkin as "crap" when you posted to me.

Have a good day

Again reading comprehension 101. Nowhere did I call his way of thinking "crap" ..I said you brought up the "conspiracy crap" look back and tell me I'm wrong. Again you put words in my mouth that were never there. Must be the alternate facts you keep talking about

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Really????? Name them.

Dr. Scott Atlas. LOL.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by DAVES

We all tend not to see the elephant in the room. We all die as a result of life. Life is clearly the cause of our death.

As far as the effect on child bearing women, perhaps, you are thinking of Thalidomide?
It is interesting that the female doctor who kept it illegal in the United States recently passed away. We did have several severely deformed babies born in the US the mother's took a drug that they got illegally.

My view, similar to driving drunk a too common issue. You have every right to drive drunk if, it only means that you will drive into a wall and kill yourself. The problem is drunk drivers too often kill others. That is the reason why the choice they make is wrong. Truly, it is simple.

I did not know Thalidomide was illegal in the US. So many posters on social media use that drug as an example of how unknown side effects of drugs can be disastrous. Thank you for enlightening me.

EDIT:......just now read that Thalidomide was given to 20,000 Americans in two clinical trials. The drug never was approved by the FDA.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by oldtimes

Not a lot but greater than zero.

COVID-19 Breakthrough Case Investigations and Reporting | CDC

Yes, I see there are deaths but, as you said, very few compared to the amount of people who have been vaccinated.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Joe C.

I haven't been vaccinated, and don't plan to unless they make it mandatory for traveling abroad.
Herd immunity will be achieved when the virus has run it's course. Just because the CDC says that 70% must be vaccinated to achieve this, I don't believe them. The worst plague in history was the "Black Death" in the middle ages, and it just ran it's course and disappeared. Vaccinations weren't even in existence back then. So when the CDC makes recommendations, I take them with a grain of salt. There's money to be made with the vaccinations and I don't think they are as necessary as they are made out to be.
Like I've said before......I'm 73, and never had a flu, pneumonia, or shingles shot, and it's been at least 25 years since a tetanus shot.

Tell that to the people in India who are being asked to bury their loved ones in their back yards.......no room at the Inn so to speak.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by stanley

Again reading comprehension 101. Nowhere did I call his way of thinking "crap" ..I said you brought up the "conspiracy crap" look back and tell me I'm wrong. Again you put words in my mouth that were never there. Must be the alternate facts you keep talking about

Actually, after due review, you are correct.

I apologize.

However, I try very hard to never use "alternate facts"... that phrase was coined, and seemingly reserved for one corner of society.