[Swoop]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Your last sentence was correct. We SHOULD not have to live our lives based on their choices. BUT, unfortunately, we WILL! If the US does not reach herd immunity and the CV drops toward close to ZERO, then CV remains with us for years and years. WE will have the problem and expense of new vaccinations being needed every year. And there will ALWAYS remain a fear that the CV could evolve into something unstoppable. Now is the best time to stop CV and the anti-vaxxers could make that impossible. That statement is NOT bullying - it is a medical fact. India THOUGHT it had the CV under control, but suddenly CV has taken over their situation. Please, don't let that happen to the US!

Let’s put an end to the silly notion about herd immunity in the US - if you are fearful of variants. Assume for a moment that every living American got the vaccine. Then the virus has mutates in some other country. It only took one person entering the US with Covid to start the spread. Our borders are WIDE open. If there is a new strain, it will make it into the US. If the vaccine isn’t effective against the new strain... Herd immunity is over.
If the vaccine works against the new strain, the those who currently choose not to receive the vaccine would not impact those who have been vaccinated.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Absolutely! I was aware of the risks of taking a vaccine. I'm also aware of risks of taking prescription and OTC medication. There are always risks. I made a decision that the benefit outweighed the risk.

Millions of Americans, like myself, are also brave and took the risk to be vaccinated. What are the reasons anti-vaxxers are refusing the vaccine? I'm not referring to those who have medical issues to deal with if they take the vaccine.

So......what are these reasons? Maybe they are not so brave. Could that be it?

What risks are you referring to? You keep posting that there are virtually no risks in getting the vaccine.
And getting a shot because you believe that is what is best for you, doesn’t make you brave...

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Swoop

What risks are you referring to? You keep posting that there are virtually no risks in getting the vaccine.
And getting a shot because you believe that is what is best for you, doesn’t make you brave...

It really does. It is surprising to me that there are many people not getting vaccinated because they fear doctors AND shots. I don't like shots and needles. I was hospitalized in the last two years where I had 27 needles in one week. The largest and scariest was inserted into my chest to reinflate my right lung. I was scared but I didn't yell. I had my sweet husband and daughter holding my hand for support.

I have a LOT of trust for the traditional medical community and very little for alternative medicine. Our daughter has had many stays and me staying with her around the clock, in her life because of congenital heart issues. Not all medical facilities are equal, some are better than others with teaching hospitals being the best. I believe we can trust the CDC and the NIH.

Most people who work with very sick people day in and day out are so close to being saints in my book. I stand in awe, really almost worship.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Swoop

What risks are you referring to? You keep posting that there are virtually no risks in getting the vaccine.
And getting a shot because you believe that is what is best for you, doesn’t make you brave...

I never said there are no risks to being vaccinated. That would be foolish to profess that. What I have continued to say is the benefit outweighed the risks for me. I also feel very special for doing my part for our country to achieve SAFE herd immunity. That goes for everyone who has been vaccinated.

Yes there are risks. As I keep hearing from the folks who are reluctant to vaccinate, "What about future side effects?" "We anti-vaxxers just may be correct and all you vaxxers will have horrible side effects or worse". Yes, there is a risk.

That is why I truly believe every person who has been vaccinated is very brave to have done so. Those who participated in the initial trials are not only brave but they are our heroes and I thank every one of those brave people.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I never said there are no risks to being vaccinated. That would be foolish to profess that. What I have continued to say is the benefit outweighed the risks for me. I also feel very special for doing my part for our country to achieve SAFE herd immunity. That goes for everyone who has been vaccinated.

Yes there are risks. As I keep hearing from the folks who are reluctant to vaccinate, "What about future side effects?" "We anti-vaxxers just may be correct and all you vaxxers will have horrible side effects or worse". Yes, there is a risk.

That is why I truly believe every person who has been vaccinated is very brave to have done so. Those who participated in the initial trials are not only brave but they are our heroes and I thank every one of those brave people.

You are currently participating in the trial. So I guess you are both brave and a hero...

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Aces4

It may appear that way but I’m taking information that has been posted in previous threads. Some have even suggested being card carrying vaxxers so they can eliminate others from activities such as flying, cruising, etc. The thought here is if one is vaccinated and protected why are they insisting others do the same? This is a virus that probably will never disappear completely.

Yes! finally an accurate statement ......" the CV will probably NEVER disappear". Good work! Now ask, "whose fault will that be"?

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Swoop

You are currently participating in the trial. So I guess you are both brave and a hero...

LOL.....Notice I referred to "initial trials" in my post you are responding to. Yes, I'm very aware the millions of people who have been vaccinated, myself included, are part of a continuing trial. I've been told that so many times on this forum, I'm beginning to believe it. You know how THAT works, don't ya?

[riley2011]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

What do you all think? If the percent of those vaccinated never exceeds, let's say, 50%*, and herd immunity for Covid is accomplished when 70% of the population is immune through either infection or the vaccine,** is it fair to say the anti-vaxxers will have thrown a serious wrench into the works?

Put another way, what is the defense, if any, for those who are criticized for being selfish and preventing herd immunity by refusing to get the vaccine?

*US Coronavirus Vaccine Progress Tracker | Vaccinations by State | USAFacts
**How Far Are We From COVID-19 Herd Immunity? – Reason.com

It’s really none of your business. Some people have good reasons.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Becca9800

There is no need to defend another's decisions. I sincerely struggle to understand why if you're vaccinated, what does it matter if your pickleball partner isn't. You believe in your decision to receive the vaccine, if it doesn't protect you why did you subject your body to it?

It DOES protect the vaccinated person. That was covered here in this forum over and over. The vaccinated person is 100% GUARANTEED to NOT die or end up in a hospital! Stop regressing!

[Becca9800]

Originally Posted by DAVES

As far as the effect on child bearing women, perhaps, you are thinking of Thalidomide? It is interesting that the female doctor who kept it illegal in the United States recently passed away. We did have several severely deformed babies born in the US the mother's took a drug that they got illegally.

To clarify, the mothers did not obtain the drug illegally, it was prescribed to them by a physician. It was the pharmaceutical companies that distributed the medication to physicians for unauthorized "trials".

True Story of Thalidomide in the US | US Thalidomide Survivors

[Becca9800]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

It DOES protect the vaccinated person. That was covered here in this forum over and over. The vaccinated person is 100% GUARANTEED to NOT die or end up in a hospital! Stop regressing!

Settle down there partner, geeze, you're gonna give yourself the big one getting so riled over nothing. Now then, why do so many care if their pickleball partner isn't vaccinated when they are themselves vaccinated? In order to understand why I might have asked that, you need to read the message string, I was responding to the concerns of other posters. I agree w you, the vaccinated one has the protection w or wo compliance from their pickleball partner.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Absolutely! I was aware of the risks of taking a vaccine. I'm also aware of risks of taking prescription and OTC medication. There are always risks. I made a decision that the benefit outweighed the risk.

Millions of Americans, like myself, are also brave and took the risk to be vaccinated. What are the reasons anti-vaxxers are refusing the vaccine? I'm not referring to those who have medical issues to deal with if they take the vaccine.

So......what are these reasons? Maybe they are not so brave. Could that be it?

Hi Coffee, with all due respect, in my opinion:

...refusing (or undecided about) getting get an experimental unapproved vaccine whose long term consequences are currently being studied for possible significant adverse reaction is not a lack of bravery.

...refusing (or undecided about) about getting vaccinated when the unvaccinated, if infected, have an 80-90% of no or mild symptoms and the vaccine confers only a 5% upgrade in those chances, against a backdrop of an experimental unapproved vaccine whose long term consequences are currently being studied for possible significant adverse reaction is not a lack of bravery.

As an "undecided" I do struggle with the possibility that the anti-vaxxers might be hindering herd immunity. That's why I started this thread, and I appreciate all the thoughtful responses (this is soooo much better than Facebook!).

I'm trying to come up with an analogy about choosing not to walk headlong into a situation that can kill you. OBB's "Russian Roulette" is the closest to that mark. Maybe someone can come up with something.

If one makes a measured, rational choice not to be exposed to something potentially deadly, even if it hinders herd immunity, that person is choosing to protect him or herself from death or severe illness - the risk of which appears to be greater than infection with Covid. Further, Covid is projected to die out, as viruses do, after it runs its course of two to three years, with or without mass vaccination. So how is all this a lack of bravery? It seems quite sensible to me, but maybe I'm biased.

And as for the "selfish" tag - same line of thought. Is it really selfish to choose not to run headlong into something that can kill or cause severe illness? Isn't that what all of us have been choosing for at least the last year?

How about if undecideds just want to wait until the vaccines receive full FDA approval? Are they still the scum of the earth?

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Yes there are risks. As I keep hearing from the folks who are reluctant to vaccinate, "What about future side effects?" "We anti-vaxxers just may be correct and all you vaxxers will have horrible side effects or worse". Yes, there is a risk.

That is why I truly believe every person who has been vaccinated is very brave to have done so. Those who participated in the initial trials are not only brave but they are our heroes and I thank every one of those brave people.

Got it. That does clarify. So you're saying people who got the vaccines knowing there could be "horrible side effects or worse" are brave because they knew about that serious and real potential threat and opted to get jabbed anyway.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Byte1

"What a bunch of self serving, know it all’s! Get your shot and shut up about it! "

"I think it should be pretty much like death and taxes, get it done and I would support national legislation to that effect unless a very valid reason to be excluded. It has been a national emergency and I support businesses, colleges etc that are making vaccination a requirement. "

Welcome to the U.S.S. of A where freedom is a "collective" effort and the elite rule the masses.

No thanks, good or bad I love my country being the BEST and the elitists' complaints are entertaining.

If something is "BEST" then it IS "ELITE" !

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Hi Walrus...
I did read your response to OBB.

I like to KISS......(keep it simple stupid). The way I see it, there is data that shows that asymptomatic infections are numerous. This is where the problem lies. Those who don't have a clue that they are transmitting this virus to others are the main drivers of this pandemic. There is data that shows that vaccinated people are not likely to become infected therefore are not likely to transmit the virus. There is also data that tells us that vaccinated people, if infected, do not have enough viral load to transmit the virus to others.

So.....with my "KISS" mentality, seems to me that we, as a community, would be much better off if everyone who CAN be vaccinated, GETS vaccinated.

All my opinion, of course.

Way to go! You are a good "KISS"er!!!!!!!!!!