[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Swoop

I laugh at the people who were fighting and clawing to get ahead of each other to get the shot, so they could protect themselves, suddenly acting like getting it was a selfless act of heroism...

It must be nice up there on your high horse. Just watch that you don't get a nosebleed.

Meanwhile back in reality...

I wasn't in a rush to get the vaccine. In fact I was right there with you in the nosebleed section griping about people fighting and clawing to "get there first." I thought it was poor planning on the state's part to not require proof of Florida residency from the first moment of the first day of available vaccines, and have no problem attributing SOME of the blame for the initial roll-out on non-Floridians coming here to get the vaccine while so many Floridians weren't able to get an appointment.

However - I waited my turn. I wasn't eligible for months because I'm not 60, I'm not a medical worker, I'm not an at-risk patient. When they finally said 50+ was eligible I put my name on the waiting list, and was happy to get the vaccine whenever they could fit me in. Even if I had to wait another few weeks. As it was, I only had to wait 3 days for the appointment, which was set for the week after that.

There are MILLIONS of people who are in the same boat I'm in.

So keep laughing.

Humanity will survive, or not, despite your laughter.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

Yeah, my opinion is just mine. I won't associate with selfish people. But I truly feel sorry when a family loses a loved one because they simply won't help themselves or others.

Polio paralyzed the nation in the early parts of the 20th century, yet it killed less than 5% of the Covid-19 deaths.

The deadly polio epidemic and why it matters for coronavirus

So, I have a difficult time understanding how our society has veered so far ..

Maybe the pandemic is what we need so that people take this stuff seriously. Maybe when your wife/husband/child/parent etc dies from Covid people will finally wise up.

I just have a hard time imagining someone wandering around NYC in the middle of the Polio epidemic yelling ' I refuse to be protected ' ..... when there is a preventative vaccine available.

I am an American. I fought for my country; I love my country.

But Americans are stupid, sad to say.

While the rest of the world dies in the tens of thousands, begging for a dose of vaccine, there are people who have the opportunity to be protected and refuse to do so, thinking they are special.

Unbelievable

Interesting that you chose the
Polio vaccine as an example. Polio effected everyone equally regardless of age or health. The Corona virus mainly impacts overweight people with preexisting health conditions. AIDS killed 700,000 Americans. If they had introduced an AIDS vaccine, would you have taken it?

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Swoop

If I get Covid, don’t have symptoms, and pass it on, it will be to someone who also opted not to get the vaccine. Then I will have antibodies and we will all be one step closer to herd immunity...

Well, that's one way to look at it. Thank you for doing your part.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by Byte1

The CDC does not have enough confidence in the vaccine to endorse the mask removal.

That's not true - at the level we are at right now, with less than 50% vaccinated, it has nothing to do with the vaccine and everything to do with herd immunity that the vaccine will help provide.

There are still people who are waiting to get the vaccine, and kids aren't approved yet. That will happen soon.

Personally, I see no reason to wear a mask any longer. Overwhelming evidence says that a fully immunized person in the 95th percentile cannot get nor give the virus to others.

I can reasonably assume I am in the 95th percentile as I have recovered from Covid and been vaccinated, as has my whole family. But I will continue to wear the mask out of a sense of public decency and responsibility.

Kinda interesting that the people who refuse to be vaccinated are the same people who refuse to wear the mask....

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Swoop

It is really funny that the same people who spent hours dialing multiple sites to get the vaccine as quickly as possible so they could protect their own asses are now trying to spin it as a humanitarian act on their part...

For me, it is no spin at all. All along, I knew the only way out of this mess we are in is to achieve herd immunity SAFELY. I have no doubt that many others realize this too. I do agree with you, however, that there are those who received the vaccine for one thing and one thing only.......because they don't want to die of Covid. That's OK too.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

there are those who received the vaccine for one thing and one thing only.......because they don't want to die of Covid.

And that pretty much says it all.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

This is only half-true.

If I'm wrong to vaccinate, *I* will pay the price. If someone is wrong about NOT vaccinating, everyone will pay the price.

How does that happen? If you are right and vaccinated, how is "everyone" going to pay? If your vaccination is good then you and everyone else "protected" will be fine. If the UN-vaccinated is wrong, then the only folks in danger are the ones that are being ostracized on here, or wherever. Why do you insist on claiming that everyone is going to perish if some don't get vaccinated? You all keep suggesting that we can't gain herd immunity as long as this thing keeps mutating. Something that I don't completely agree with, but may be true. Who knows? But, the virus will eventually dissipate and folks will be able to breath a little while they wait for the next plague to arrive.
So, the point is that the UN-inoculated can only harm those that are UN-inoculated.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

And that pretty much says it all.

I think over 300 replies has said it all..............over........and over........and over......................

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

Polio paralyzed the nation in the early parts of the 20th century, yet it killed less than 5% of the Covid-19 deaths.

The deadly polio epidemic and why it matters for coronavirus

I just have a hard time imagining someone wandering around NYC in the middle of the Polio epidemic yelling ' I refuse to be protected ' ..... when there is a preventative vaccine available.

Unbelievable

Believable. A lot of people here are making comparisons to the polio vaccine. The big difference is that by the time the polio vaccine was administered to the general public, it was NOT an experimental unapproved vaccine, like the Covid vaccines most certainly are. And there were no lingering concerns about potential deadly long term side effects like ADE which may or may not present with Covid vaccines (discussed here earlier).

From your link: "In 1954, the March of Dimes organized a national field trial of 1.8 million schoolchildren, the largest medical study in history. The data was processed and on April 12, 1955, six years from when Salk began his research, the Salk polio vaccine was declared “safe and effective.”

Refusal or indecision about the Covid vaccine may be a lot of things, but stupid it ain't (a reference to your previous posts citing "stupidity"). Not yet anyway. I have to question whether the people who make those kinds of judgments really know all they need to know before making such criticisms. And some people say that people who make uninformed criticisms are "stupid." I wouldn't say they're stupid, of course, and I'm not saying you are.

[Tmarkwald]

Fabulous article...

This was last year...


For decades, scientists have dreamed about the seemingly endless possibilities of custom-made messenger RNA, or mRNA.

The story of mRNA: From a loose idea to a tool that may help curb Covid

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Wow! You you made the decision that the vaccine was the right choice for you, and therefore it should be the right choice for everyone...
You chose to “protect” yourself and now suddenly it was all about the greater good...
I have no intention of staying home. I haven’t since the start of the Covid outbreak. If I am not vaccinated, I can only spread it to someone else who isn’t vaccinated. I know my odds. You don’t know how long your vaccine will last, or it will require booster shots, or if it will protect you against variants, or if you will have long term immunity issues.
You made the decision that was what you thought was best for you, now you’re trying to spin it into a selfless act of heroism. No one’s buying it, except the others with your same warped train of thought...

How in the world do you consider this "warped" train of thought? Herd immunity is nothing new. I learned about it many years ago in science class. Yes, there is that dirty word again......SCIENCE.

Your idea (I will not call it "warped", just misguided) not to be vaccinated and if you are asymptomatic, will pass Covid to someone who also made the choice not to be vaccinated. Do you realize this is exactly how the virus has the opportunity to mutate and create more variants? Do you realize that the millions of people in our country who have been vaccinated may not be protected long term because of all these newly created variants? Booster shots will be necessary simply because of those people who refuse to be vaccinated and stop this virus in its tracks.

The millions of people who received the vaccine have done a wonderful service for our country and that is to achieve a SAFE herd immunity. There is no denying that, even if many did it to "save their own asses" as you put it, the end justifies the means.

Those who have already had Covid, have also contributed to herd immunity. There is no denying that either. It is just that those people chose the UNSAFE way to do it and there will be more to come. Hopefully those people made the right decision for their health and well being and are not one of the unlucky healthy people that die from Covid.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

That's not true - at the level we are at right now, with less than 50% vaccinated, it has nothing to do with the vaccine and everything to do with herd immunity that the vaccine will help provide.

There are still people who are waiting to get the vaccine, and kids aren't approved yet. That will happen soon.

Personally, I see no reason to wear a mask any longer. Overwhelming evidence says that a fully immunized person in the 95th percentile cannot get nor give the virus to others.

I can reasonably assume I am in the 95th percentile as I have recovered from Covid and been vaccinated, as has my whole family. But I will continue to wear the mask out of a sense of public decency and responsibility.

Kinda interesting that the people who refuse to be vaccinated are the same people who refuse to wear the mask....

If your vaccination is as reported, then there is no reason for you to wear a mask. Ask any MD that isn't on the gov. payroll and they will tell you that if you are immune, you can't pass the virus on to someone else. The CDC does not have enough confidence in the vaccine, period.
And maybe those that refuse to wear a mask and not get vaccinated, feel they are safe without it. After all, we went a year without the vaccination. Some folks just use what they believe is common sense. They distance, do not cough on others and wash their hands. Even the CDC has said over and over again that if you maintain your distance, you are unlikely to be infected. They even said that even if you are close to an infected, it takes a few minutes of conversing with them in close proximity to be vulnerable to their infection. You know that drill. Besides, everyone knows that these cheap and homemade masks give little protection, and act more as a placebo.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by Byte1

How does that happen? If you are right and vaccinated, how is "everyone" going to pay? If your vaccination is good then you and everyone else "protected" will be fine. If the UN-vaccinated is wrong, then the only folks in danger are the ones that are being ostracized on here, or wherever. Why do you insist on claiming that everyone is going to perish if some don't get vaccinated? You all keep suggesting that we can't gain herd immunity as long as this thing keeps mutating. Something that I don't completely agree with, but may be true. Who knows? But, the virus will eventually dissipate and folks will be able to breath a little while they wait for the next plague to arrive.
So, the point is that the UN-inoculated can only harm those that are UN-inoculated.

You are saying the same thing. It's the double-negatives that confuses it a bit.

I think the intent was as you said, but the 'everyone' means everyone who is un-vaccinated is vulnerable.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

Believable. A lot of people here are making comparisons to the polio vaccine. The big difference is that by the time the polio vaccine was administered to the general public, it was NOT an experimental unapproved vaccine, like the Covid vaccines most certainly are. And there were no lingering concerns about potential deadly long term side effects like ADE which may or may not present with Covid vaccines (discussed here earlier).

From your link: "In 1954, the March of Dimes organized a national field trial of 1.8 million schoolchildren, the largest medical study in history. The data was processed and on April 12, 1955, six years from when Salk began his research, the Salk polio vaccine was declared “safe and effective.”

Refusal or indecision about the Covid vaccine may be a lot of things, but stupid it ain't. Not yet anyway. I have to question whether the people who make those kinds of judgments really know all they need to know before making such criticisms. And some people say that people who make uninformed criticisms are "stupid." I wouldn't, and I'm not saying you are.

So, we should wait 6 years, 4 million dead or more, and then use the vaccine.

POLIO was only killing a FEW THOUSAND a year, not a half-MILLION

I'm not taking that chance with my health or my children and family.

The reason the vaccine was fast-tracked was because - it worked. And people were dying.

And, I won't bother commenting on your comment about the 'experimental unapproved; vaccine comment. That's been discussed and proven false ad nauseum on her and other posts. Research it. all the sources are stated earlier..

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Interesting that you chose the
Polio vaccine as an example. Polio effected everyone equally regardless of age or health. The Corona virus mainly impacts overweight people with preexisting health conditions. AIDS killed 700,000 Americans. If they had introduced an AIDS vaccine, would you have taken it?

Excellent point and I'm gonna start using it, if you don't mind. I don't know why I didn't think of it. If an AIDS vaccine were available, it's pretty clear many or most people would refuse it saying "I don't need it." And we would let them slide, even though AIDS is contagious. So why is saying "I don't need the Covid vaccine" (because of what you cite above and the 80-90% chance of having no or mild symptoms) any less valid?