[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I'm not sure I would make that generalization. I've seen some folks say they refuse the vaccine but still continue to mask and social distance. At least those folks are smart enough to do what they can to keep themselves and their loved ones safe. Not being vaccinated certainly isn't going to do it.

I stand corrected - I should have said that some of most outspoken anti-maskers are anti-vaxxers.

[unialimon]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I will not sugar coat my stance........No defense at all for the anti-vaxxers. They are essentially clueless and heartless to the urgency of stopping this virus in its tracks. Anti-vaxxers will be THE reason our country cannot achieve SAVE herd immunity.

As an aside......I do not include those who can not be vaccinated due to medical issues. That is unfortunate for them that they can not achieve the protection the vaccines offer.

I have no patience for those who claim "religious reasons for not taking the vaccine". Religion should take a back seat to public safety. Sorry if that offends anyone.

Looking thru the depths of the internet on a desktop computer, I found this
"Funny how we were raised to not be peer pressured into taking experimental drugs and now we're being peer pressured into taking experimental drugs."

[Becca9800]

And then there's POTUS, about to announce the CDC's new rules re: the need for masks when outdoors. There he is, fully vaccinated, outdoors, by himself, walking to the podium, wearing a mask. What message does he send? His explanation.... so we could watch him take it off and not put it back on until he got inside.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

Believable. A lot of people here are making comparisons to the polio vaccine. The big difference is that by the time the polio vaccine was administered to the general public, it was NOT an experimental unapproved vaccine, like the Covid vaccines most certainly are. And there were no lingering concerns about potential deadly long term side effects like ADE which may or may not present with Covid vaccines (discussed here earlier).

From your link: "In 1954, the March of Dimes organized a national field trial of 1.8 million schoolchildren, the largest medical study in history. The data was processed and on April 12, 1955, six years from when Salk began his research, the Salk polio vaccine was declared “safe and effective.”

Refusal or indecision about the Covid vaccine may be a lot of things, but stupid it ain't (a reference to your previous posts citing "stupidity"). Not yet anyway. I have to question whether the people who make those kinds of judgments really know all they need to know before making such criticisms. And some people say that people who make uninformed criticisms are "stupid." I wouldn't say they're stupid, of course, and I'm not saying you are.

According to this article....ADE is not an issue with the Covid vaccines, In fact the mRNA vaccines are actually safer than traditional vaccines regarding ADE .......

Why ADE Hasn't Been a Problem With COVID Vaccines | MedPage Today

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

Fabulous article...

This was last year...


For decades, scientists have dreamed about the seemingly endless possibilities of custom-made messenger RNA, or mRNA.

The story of mRNA: From a loose idea to a tool that may help curb Covid

I posted this article in another TOTV thread. Agree it is a great article and very inspirational.Thank you for posting it again.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

So we determine that a nice steady 800 or so deaths per day will not overwhelm our healthcare system and call that good enough? 300,000 additional deaths per year is a small price to pay to not have to wear a mask in Publix?

It means that we have more information today about the virus than we did a year ago. A year ago people were told to wear masks, stay at home, social distance, distance learn, etc. At the time, we knew little about the virus, weren't sure how to treat it and had no vaccine available. There was concern that we had to slow the spread to prevent our healthcare system from becoming overwhelmed.

Today, a year later, we know much more about the virus, we know how to treat it and we have a vaccine. There is no longer great concern that the virus will overwhelm our healthcare system. If anything, it appears that the earlier mitigation efforts may have been overly cautious and not completely necessary.

Again, ridding the planet of Covid is not a realistic goal and it has never been the goal. Luckily, there is now a vaccine for those who are concerned about contracting this virus.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

I'm just trying to figure out how someone can get AIDS by just walking down the street or going to a restaurant.

An AIDS vaccines is appropriate to those that engage in behavior that puts them at risk.

The comparison is kinda amusing. If the only way you could get Covid was by sharing syringes and needles or putting an appendage in an inappropriate location I doubt we'd have a half million deaths...

We were well into the AIDS epidemic before they narrowed down the methods of transfer. And if you still believe you can get Covid “walking down the street” then you really are clueless...

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

According to this article....ADE is not an issue with the Covid vaccines, In fact the mRNA vaccines are actually safer than traditional vaccines regarding ADE .......

Why ADE Hasn't Been a Problem With COVID Vaccines | MedPage Today

I’m not dismissing this and l thank you for sharing it but, to paraphrase OBB, no matter what side you take, you can always find something (even reliable sources) on the internet to support it.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Byte1

If your vaccination is as reported, then there is no reason for you to wear a mask. Ask any MD that isn't on the gov. payroll and they will tell you that if you are immune, you can't pass the virus on to someone else. The CDC does not have enough confidence in the vaccine, period.
And maybe those that refuse to wear a mask and not get vaccinated, feel they are safe without it. After all, we went a year without the vaccination. Some folks just use what they believe is common sense. They distance, do not cough on others and wash their hands. Even the CDC has said over and over again that if you maintain your distance, you are unlikely to be infected. They even said that even if you are close to an infected, it takes a few minutes of conversing with them in close proximity to be vulnerable to their infection. You know that drill. Besides, everyone knows that these cheap and homemade masks give little protection, and act more as a placebo.

Everyone actually knows these cheap home made masks do not offer much protection but they are very effective as source control. You have heard that. Right? Enough about masks. Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt.

The CDC has plenty of confidence in the vaccine, however, they don't have confidence in human nature. They know that if they gave the guidance for vaccinated people to be able to not mask in indoor public spaces, then everyone will not wear a mask. They know that, I know that and I would imagine you are smart enough to realize that too.

So.....to keep our population safe, they have not yet given the guidance for vaccinated people to unmask in indoor spaces. I don't plan on tattooing my forehead to let everyone know I'm vaccinated and I doubt very many people want to do that either.

As an aside......there is "talk" about the CDC giving guidance that masking is not necessary OUTDOORS. That right there, is a sign that the vaccines are doing what they are supposed to do......to get us to a normal way of living. We are on our way, but not there yet.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

I’m not dismissing this and l thank you for sharing it but, to paraphrase OBB, no matter what side you take, you can always find something (even reliable sources) on the internet to support it.

OK. I'll buy that. But can you find anything regarding ADE that supports ADE is a concern with the mRNA vaccines or any Covid vaccine for that matter?

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

No, I agree with OBB and have always had that mindset. Back in the day when all we had to discuss was masking (pre-vaccines). I, continually tried to relay to people that masking would help us to mitigate the virus and get back to what we once knew as "normal". Seems that didn't work at all because not enough people were on board with that mindset and just wore their masks over their mouths or directly on their chins or not at all. Can't mitigate anything THAT way. One down. One to go........

Now we have the vaccines to get us out of this mess of a pandemic. THIS is our salvation for our country to finally achieve herd immunity. NOT SO FAST. How can we get back to the normal we all know and not reach herd immunity? Quick answer......WE CANNOT. THIS is the reason the anti-vaxxers, the non-vaxxers, the hesitant vaxxers, the religious objector vaxxers and the medical issues non-vaxxers will effect EVERYONE.

I used the same mantra for the masks and I am now for the vaccines. Here I go AGAIN.............

How about filling the sports stadiums with asses in ALL seats? What about going to a full movie theater with a stranger actually sitting next to you? How about sending children to school for in person learning and the parents not being fearful their little one will come home with this deadly virus? How about filling cruise ships and enjoying cruising once again? How about filling churches and synagogues with no need to social distance? How about Broadway theaters opening up again so we can enjoy first class live theater? (I'm there in a heartbeat when that happens. I LOVE live theater). I could go on and on and on and on.

YUP.....same mantra I've been spouting for a year now. Hasn't changed and there are still people that prevent us from the normal lives we once took for granted.

Yup.....those folks who refuse vaccination most certainly effect EVERYONE!

Walrus.....I appreciate your "Thank You" to this post of mine. It means a lot.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Byte1

I get both sides of the argument. I was reluctant to get the shots but signed my spouse up and was given the opportunity for myself so I said, what the heck. I figured that once I got the shots, I could quit wearing the mask. Not that I wore it that much anyway, ha,ha. But, we have seen how that goes. The CDC does not have enough confidence in the vaccine to endorse the mask removal.
On the other hand, those that do not wish to get the shots have my understanding also. Why should they, if they have to continue to wear masks and social distance, etc? I do not subscribe to the idea that those that decline getting vaccinated are being selfish. That is just someone's attempt to shame someone else into getting the shots. The other poster is right, we are getting vaccinated to protect ourselves (and maybe family). The ones that do not get the shots are not being selfish. If anyone is in harms way, it will be the ones that don't get vaccinated. So, it will just be others that do not wish to get the shot. So, why bother attempting to shame them into changing their minds? Who knows, they may be right to worry about the vaccine. Shoot, I don't get the flu shot and haven't had it(flu shot) for at least 50 years, and never had the flu. Should I feel selfish because I do not get the flu shot? After all, flu shots are only 30-60% effective, depending on the year. Will I get a booster shot? Not if things stay the way they are now.
Now, do you see why others might be reluctant to get the vaccination, considering that NOTHING has changed? This is not a defense for the "anti-vaxxers" but just an empathetic explanation of how one might reason.
Many of you are not convincing at all. You attempt to threaten and shame those that don't agree with you. Telling someone that you or they are doing it for others is just plain B.S. and you know it. You are doing it for yourselves so just admit it. Or not, but you aren't fooling anyone. Be honest. For those not getting the shots, I understand your reasoning and I do not fault you for it. Personally, I am more pro vaccination for this particular virus, but if I was going to do it again I am not so sure. Nothing has changed. I still associate with friends without masks and I do not wear a mask around them. I ONLY wear a mask when shopping and there is a sign posted. Even then, I uncover my nose so I can breath better. I figured that if I am going to take the chance of getting the shots, then I should also put my faith in the ability of it to protect me from the evil Chinese virus.
If you are attempting to convince folks to get the vaccination, some of you are doing the opposite.

How so? Am I guilty of this?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Byte1

How does that happen? If you are right and vaccinated, how is "everyone" going to pay? If your vaccination is good then you and everyone else "protected" will be fine. If the UN-vaccinated is wrong, then the only folks in danger are the ones that are being ostracized on here, or wherever. Why do you insist on claiming that everyone is going to perish if some don't get vaccinated? You all keep suggesting that we can't gain herd immunity as long as this thing keeps mutating. Something that I don't completely agree with, but may be true. Who knows? But, the virus will eventually dissipate and folks will be able to breath a little while they wait for the next plague to arrive.
So, the point is that the UN-inoculated can only harm those that are UN-inoculated.

The general idea of anti-vaxxing with regards to the CV19 vaccine, is that we don't need vaccines to attain herd immunity, the vaccine might be unsafe, mutations will happen anyway, there's little risk of mutation, I haven't been sick yet so I don't have to worry about spreading the disease to anyone else, hardly anyone died, and it's all a hoax anyway. That covers just about the full gamut of "why I *should not* be vaccinated.

If that is wrong (the thing you're asking me about):

Then you DO need vaccines to attain herd immunity, the vaccine is not unsafe, the virus will absolutely mutate if we don't attain herd immunity, you might be sick and Typhoid Marying everyone you meet with the new strain/mutation, millions more will die, and it's not a hoax afterall.

That is what happens if the anti-vaxxers are WRONG.

I'd rather be wrong about taking a pro-active stance on vaccinating, than take an anti-vaxx stance on it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Malsua

I saw a LOT of this. In fact on one of my NJ commutes a couple months back, a guy was alone with a mask on, driving like he'd been pithed.

Of course there's video Route 208 driver, driving like he's lacking oxygen - YouTube

I haven't seen it as much in the last month we've been down here in TV, but I did see it a few times.

I still see people wearing masks in their own cars and golf carts. Heck, sometimes I forget to take MY mask off, even though I hate the damned things and would love nothing better than to toss my box of disposables in the trash. It doesn't bother me a bit. It doesn't make me laugh, it doesn't make me feel sorry for anyone, it doesn't stir up any emotion or trigger any response at all other than to acknowledge, "yup, that's a mask on his face alright."

I think anyone who gets triggered in ANY way by someone wearing a mask in their own vehicle needs a visit to the local memory care center, where there are a LOT of more significant issues to comment about. Like someone forgetting their name, or the fact that they're married, or how to communicate when they're hungry.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

And probably another 200+

Meanwhile, the CDC announced that fully vaccinated individuals no longer need to wear a mask outdoors when participating in sports, walking, cycling etc. Just a little late to the party (again). Nobody but the most paranoid covidiots have been wearing a mask when walking or cycling or sitting alone in their driveway, much less those that were driving alone in a car with a mask on. Now, let's see how many of them continue to wear a mask. (However DO NOT do as Tucker Carlson suggested last night)

I'm with you.....have never ever worn a mask OUTDOORS and always distance from others but I'm a strong proponent of masking INDOORS.

As an aside....What did Carlson have to say. I didn't see it.