Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1935100)

"The true facts are that COVID-19 deaths will likely be underreported on death certificates and not over-reported,” Aiken said. “This will be especially true as deaths that occur in homes, and not the hospital, mount. Not all jurisdictions are able to test home deaths with typical symptoms for COVID-19.”

Social Media Posts Make Baseless Claim on COVID-19 Death Toll - FactCheck.org

Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1935071)

The bottom line with this whole scenario is how people are willing to roll over and give government permission to take away individual freedom in America.

What’s next, mandatory birth control, mandatory Gardasil vaccinations for children so sexual partners may be unlimited.

You get the picture and I’m signing off. Civil liberties are on the line. BTW, for the record,it’s predicted the next pandemic may be far worse.

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1935129)

With all due respect. Well,

The government is notvrequiring anything...nothing.

None of your "general" phrases are required, not threatened in any way.

You buy into whatever thenconspiracy folks throw out there, yet you brag on your sources.

Civil liberties, despite " what you hear" are not on the line.

Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1935088)

The increased number of deaths, according to CNBC, was 528,000. That’s quite a distance from 600,000.


Covid was third cause of death in the USA after heart disease and cancer with the highest recordings at the beginning of the pandemic and at the winter holiday period in December. Not included in those numbers were suicides related to the isolation, untreated medical conditions because people were too afraid to see their physicians and improper treatment of Covid cases.

I know of one woman with severe heart disease who caught it earlier in the pandemic and died. I know at least a dozen people who survived Covid and are fine with their children unaffected by it. Can it be deadly, yes. Should we allow our government to take away the civil liberty of vaccination choice, NO!

Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1935136)

I see comprehension is a factor so let me explain it to you, posters on this site are willing to have covid vaccinations mandated by the government. That’s not general so I’ll explain that, it’s not a conspiracy, it is a willingness for people to relinquish a civil liberty to the government. That’s not what this country is about and I brag about nothing but that’s your tactic.

Read your source’s report, Aiken, on February 18, 2021 in the AAMC which indicates the muddiness of covid 19 assessments in death. You know, the source you “brag” about...

Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1935136)

I see comprehension is a factor so let me explain it to you, posters on this site are willing to have covid vaccinations mandated by the government. That’s not general so I’ll explain that, it’s not a conspiracy, it is a willingness for people to relinquish a civil liberty to the government. That’s not what this country is about and I brag about nothing but that’s your tactic.

Read your source’s report, Aiken, on February 18, 2021 in the AAMC which indicates the muddiness of covid 19 assessments in death. You know, the source you “brag” about...

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 1935137)

Wow that herring is ENORMOUS. And bright bloody crimson. No mistaking it for anything else.

1. 'Refusing Vaccination" is not on the list of "civil rights."
2. If you mean "my body my choice," I have a few states you need to explain Roe v. Wade to, before we can go a single step further on THAT path.
3. The government is not trying to mandate vaccines. So even if "refusing vaccines" was one of your civil rights, AND even if "my body my choice" was true Nationwide, it's a moot point. That's the red herring I was talking about. The first two points just make the herring big and a brighter shade of red.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1935067)

Do you dispute that nearly 600,000 more people died in the US in 2020 than in 2019, 2018, or 2017?

If we can accept the data from the States, as aggregated and reported by both the CDC, JHU, and the Covid Tracking Project then how can the 600,000 additional deaths be explained if they were not due to Covid? Did the hospitals cause those deaths in their effort to collect the extra per-patient reimbursement?

Originally Posted by Bucco (Post 1935129)

With all due respect. Well,

The government is notvrequiring anything...nothing.

None of your "general" phrases are required, not threatened in any way.

You buy into whatever thenconspiracy folks throw out there, yet you brag on your sources.

Civil liberties, despite " what you hear" are not on the line.

Originally Posted by RedChariot (Post 1934995)

Anti-vaxxers only care about themselves. Its me, me, me. All your points are well taken.

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus (Post 1935149)

Funny, I was just going to say the same thing, also with an abundance of respect to Aces.

Aces, this seems like a solution in search of a problem. You keep saying our civil rights are at stake and they are not. Nobody is forcing anyone to get a vaccination in the US.

I'm sure you're a very smart person, but I have to say the frequent parroting of that line sounds like you've been overly influenced by what some might say is the propaganda in the mainstream media which you claim to eschew. I mean no harm or disrespect. We are here to share information and perhaps learn something from each other.

Originally Posted by tvbound (Post 1935152)

You nailed it. Then listening to them whine about their "liberties/civil rights being lost," yet are too ignorant to understand that other people also have the liberty to keep from being infected - doesn't ever seem to sink in with the selfish types.

Originally Posted by Aces4 (Post 1935145)

The discussion, if you followed it, was vaxxers insisting everyone follow their creed and they are more than willing to allow the government to step in and mandate vaccinations of a vaccine that has not passed all testing yet. Why would anyone give up their rights to say no to this vaccine is the question and hand that right over to the government. No red herring for you, just carp.

Originally Posted by tvbound (Post 1935152)

You nailed it. Then listening to them whine about their "liberties/civil rights being lost," yet are too ignorant to understand that other people also have the liberty to keep from being infected - doesn't ever seem to sink in with the selfish types.

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus (Post 1935156)

Oh...now I think I understand what you're saying. Are you saying it seems we're on the verge of seeing the people - American citizens demanding that the government make vaccines mandatory? That's different than the government unilaterally mandating the vaccine from the get-go. If that's your concern, the people can demand it all they want. The federal or state governments might even give in to their demand. But a government mandate of an unapproved vaccine would never ever survive a Supreme Court challenge, especially this court.