[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by oneclickplus

Actually, individual rights is the reason blood was spilled in the American Revolution. My rights over my body do indeed trump what anyone else thinks I should do for the "whole".

As Ron DeSantis said: "if you believe the vaccine provides immunity, then act like it".

Don't worry about what others are doing.

Or, maybe you don't trust the vaccine. Well, neither do I.

I trust the vaccine that I received (Moderna) but I do not trust those people who will perpetuate this pandemic. I do not trust those who will pass on this virus to others, although unwillingly if asymptomatic, and cause this virus to mutate and create variants that may not be "covered" by the vaccine I received.

It is those damn variants that have thrown a monkey wrench into this mass vaccination effort that our government has launched. To think, our fellow Americans who refuse to be vaccinated, will be responsible for these vaccines not being protective any more to the millions of Americans who were brave enough to do their part and get vaccinated.

My opinion, of course.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bay Kid

If you had your shots by now you should be able to go back to normal. Those that haven't had their shots should just stay inside or take your chances, but don't penalize others.

But they WILL want to penalize others. Remember our recent thread about pickleball.

[oldtimes]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Yes, I see there are deaths but, as you said, very few compared to the amount of people who have been vaccinated.

The point being that they are still discovering new data about the virus and the vaccine. There is still a lot they don’t know especially what the long term effects will be. There are many like those 18 and under who cannot be vaccinated and therefore could potentially continue spreading the mutations. They still have no idea when or if herd immunity will end the pandemic. It’s just never as easy as you’d like to believe.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Aces4

I won’t sugar coat my stance. This is America and this medical bullying needs to stop. Let’s all make a list of medical necessessities WE think should be implemented and then work to have them enforced, right?

If you want the vaccine, get it. Leave those alone who have decided against it.

I have a feeling if we could all see the actual, individual cases of each person who has died from Covid only and not those who were at death’s door you would be stunned by the actual numbers.

I believe that we can believe the numbers put out by medical scientists and the CDC. WE pay them. They are professionals. They should be believed over dark outlets, TV Channels, and Russian bots which try to distort news so that Americans get confused and believe nothing.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

If you are otherwise immunized (by way of having caught COVID-19 and already possessed of the antibodies against it), then you will pose no risk to me or anyone else at all, is how I'm understanding it.

However...

Most people have not been otherwise immunized. Most people in this country have not caught COVID-19 and had the opportunity to develop an immunity to it.

Virii mutate. That is a fact. They do this, it's a thing that they do. UNLESS they are not provided with a host in which they can acquire the materials necessary for the mutation.

If most people refuse to vaccinate AND those same people are not already immune, then the virus has lots and lots of hosts to pick from, to settle down and munch on those tasty mutation-creating kibbles and bits of humanity.

Once the virus mutates sufficiently, it can then go on and infect EVERYONE. Even the people who were already vaccinated.

That is why I feel people should be vaccinated, if they are able to do so. Because I really REALLY don't want to have to go through this again.

OBB.....you and I are on the same page regarding the virus mutating and creating variants. We also agree that if this cycle continues, we just may be looking at millions of vaccinated Americans who are no longer protected. All thanks to those who are not willing to do their part and get the vaccine.

But.......you AlWAYS say it better than me. Thank you.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Just a post of support.

YOU are not "willfully blind"

Those who are simply anti government are the folks that have been blinded

Thank you for your support.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

I am amazed at some of the stuff being bandied about regarding the worth of the vaccines.
Look at the decreasing numbers of Covid in the countries where the vacination program is going along well.
Then look at the countries where it is not.
Even to a dumb nut like me, it is obvious that vaccination is the way to go.
Check the situation at Dehli in India, and see what happens when the virus overwhelms the medical facilities.

Those poor people, being requested to bury their loved one in their back yards like you would a pet animal. I never ever thought I would see that happening in my life time, anywhere in this world. Am I just being naive? This virus kills.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I would think that once everyone who wants to be vaccinate is, then we should be able to fully back to normal. We should be able to know this when people stop showing up for the vaccine.

I got my two shots well over a month go but I continue to wear a mask indoors in public spaces because from what I understand, I can still contract the virus and spread it to others. I'm assuming that there are still people that want to get vaccinated but haven't been able to do so yet, so I feel a responsibility toward my fellow humans.

But once every that wants to be vaccinated has been, I feel no responsibility to those who choose not to be vaccinated. I shouldn't have to live my life based on their choices.

Your last sentence was correct. We SHOULD not have to live our lives based on their choices. BUT, unfortunately, we WILL! If the US does not reach herd immunity and the CV drops toward close to ZERO, then CV remains with us for years and years. WE will have the problem and expense of new vaccinations being needed every year. And there will ALWAYS remain a fear that the CV could evolve into something unstoppable. Now is the best time to stop CV and the anti-vaxxers could make that impossible. That statement is NOT bullying - it is a medical fact. India THOUGHT it had the CV under control, but suddenly CV has taken over their situation. Please, don't let that happen to the US!

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

The difference, and it's a biggie, is that the J&J jabs were causing severe short-term side effects that could not be ignored. I believe the poster is referring to potential but still not fully known consequences in the far term - for example, the ADE situation cited a few pages ago.

Understood. Thanks.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I agree. There is a difference between dying from Covid and dying with Covid.

I have an uncle that died with Covid. He was 93 years old. He went into the hospital for a heart condition. After surgery he was sent to rehab where he fell and broke his hip. After that he was told that he had contracted Covid and he died shortly thereafter.

The problem is that who knows if the Coivd killed him or if his death was the result of his heart surgery or even the broken hip. I've heard many cases of elderly people dying shortly after breaking a hip.

In the case of my uncle, an autopsy was not performed so the cause of deaths was listed as Covid. But who knows? He was 93. He could have died of natural causes.

One uncle is an N of one in statistics. Statistics are useful to show trends and "big picture" situations so that leaders are informed and can make their best-informed decision.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I don't consider that a reason mostly because I fall squarely into that category of people, and I got vaccinated.

I'm younger (not even 60 yet). I worked at Publix from February 2020 til mid-December 2020, making more than minimum wage (I started at $13.20 and asked to transfer to a lower-paying department because me + stocking shelves = not a good match, final pay was $11/hour). I'm SURE I was exposed to it, there were enough people who refused to mask or social distance, who came in with the sniffles or just had something stuck in their throat and were coughing while I was bagging their groceries, etc. I'm sure if I had left there saying I was too worried about Covid, I could've taken advantage of the PEUC money and unemployment compensation.

But I left because I developed bursitis in my hip on top of osteoporosis and just can't work standing still for any length of time, and the job required that I do a lot of standing still. I was honest, and chose to not even try collecting unemployment. We definitely could've used the money but eh - not worth the headache filling out the forms.

But no, I don't count people who don't "want" to get vaccinated as a "reason" for not getting vaccinated.

Good honesty.

[coffeebean]

~~~

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Wow, so because you received a vaccine that you were very excited to get - that somehow makes you brave?!?

Absolutely! I was aware of the risks of taking a vaccine. I'm also aware of risks of taking prescription and OTC medication. There are always risks. I made a decision that the benefit outweighed the risk.

Millions of Americans, like myself, are also brave and took the risk to be vaccinated. What are the reasons anti-vaxxers are refusing the vaccine? I'm not referring to those who have medical issues to deal with if they take the vaccine.

So......what are these reasons? Maybe they are not so brave. Could that be it?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Aces4

As we walk on toward the goal of loss of individual freedom...

Some things can ONLY be done by LARGE government and LARGE institutions. You as an individual would look pretty silly standing in your backyard with a shotgun trying to shoot down incoming ICBMs from Russia!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

No, that isn't a defense. Anyone can read anything on the internet to support what they WANT to do. I can find plenty of "research papers" (needs the quotation marks to emphasize how laughable that is, in context) to prove that vaccines are foolproof, that no one ever died as a direct result of a vaccine, and that the data proves that there will be 100% immunity if everyone is vaccinated.

The fact that you read this somewhere, it not a good or valid reason or defense in favor of vaccination. But you can find it on the internet.

When people say they researched something, on an internet forum, they USUALLY mean "I did a bing/google search and clicked the top 3 responses from the search" or "I skimmed the wikipedia entry" or "I read it on pubmed.

That's not research. I think people have forgotten what actual research is.

But no, reading somewhere that A=True is not a "defense" for not being vaccinated. However, I still acknowledge that they might be confused with what's true and what isn't true, and that would cause them some hesitation. I refer you back to point #1 for that.

Russian hackers and bots are working hard to create ANY possible confusion on almost ANY subject just as a cheap method to weaken the US. And also other free countries. Because it WORKS!