[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

yeah, frustrating isn't it?

Love the graphic. I love this quote too.......

"It's hard to win an argument with a smart person but damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person". - Bill Murray

[Gulfcoast]

The whole reasoning behind mask wearing, social distancing and shut downs was to prevent our medical facilities from being overrun. It seems that we have arrived at a place where our medical facilities are not in any danger of being overrun. We know a lot more about the virus now, initial data has been corrected to more accurately reflect infection/hospital/death rates, we have a vaccine and many people have been infected and now have natural immunity to this bug.

We are not going to eradicate this virus off of the planet nor has that ever been a goal or expectation. All of the hoops we have been jumping through this past year were meant to prevent our medical facilities from becoming overwhelmed. We appear to have accomplished the goal. If you are worried about catching Covid, get the shot.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

E If an AIDS vaccine were available, it's pretty clear many or most people would refuse it saying "I don't need it." And we would let them slide, even though AIDS is contagious. So why is saying "I don't need the Covid vaccine" any less valid?

Because AIDS doesn't kill a half million a year and spread through the air.

If you don't engage in inappropriate behavior, you will not get AIDS. (excepting blood transfusions...)

Simple answer.

You are comparing apples to watermelons.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

The whole reasoning behind mask wearing, social distancing and shut downs was to prevent our medical facilities from being overrun. It seems that we have arrived at a place where our medical facilities are not in any danger of being overrun. We know a lot more about the virus now, initial data has been corrected to more accurately reflect infection/hospital/death rates, we have a vaccine and many people have been infected and now have natural immunity to this bug.

We are not going to eradicate this virus off of the planet nor has that ever been a goal or expectation. All of the hoops we have been jumping through this past year were meant to prevent our medical facilities from becoming overwhelmed. We appear to have accomplished the goal. If you are worried about catching Covid, get the shot.

great comment

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by stanley

I think over 300 replies has said it all..............over........and over........and over......................

And probably another 200+

Meanwhile, the CDC announced that fully vaccinated individuals no longer need to wear a mask outdoors when participating in sports, walking, cycling etc. Just a little late to the party (again). Nobody but the most paranoid covidiots have been wearing a mask when walking or cycling or sitting alone in their driveway, much less those that were driving alone in a car with a mask on. Now, let's see how many of them continue to wear a mask. (However DO NOT do as Tucker Carlson suggested last night)

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Interesting that you chose the
Polio vaccine as an example. Polio effected everyone equally regardless of age or health. The Corona virus mainly impacts overweight people with preexisting health conditions. AIDS killed 700,000 Americans. If they had introduced an AIDS vaccine, would you have taken it?

Any chance at all you have a source for that 700,000 number?

According to Our World in Data, The US saw 511,000 deaths from AIDS between 1990 and 2017. The peak was 45,000 in 1995 and since 2014 the number has been about 7,000 per year. (Note: CDC information says 15,820 people diagnosed with HIV died in 2018 but is careful to say this is the number of deaths from any cause and not necessarily AIDS)

Compare that with a solid 400,000 in ONE YEAR ALONE for Covid. That's an average of 33,333 each month compared to 7,000 per year.

Covid may primarily affect those with preexisting conditions but as the list of preexisting conditions becomes large it approaches "everyone."

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

And, I won't bother commenting on your comment about the 'experimental unapproved; vaccine comment. That's been discussed and proven false ad nauseum on her and other posts. Research it. all the sources are stated earlier..

Are you really saying it's untrue the Covid vaccines are unapproved and experimental and this has been "proven" false? Are you sure about that?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

The whole reasoning behind mask wearing, social distancing and shut downs was to prevent our medical facilities from being overrun. It seems that we have arrived at a place where our medical facilities are not in any danger of being overrun. We know a lot more about the virus now, initial data has been corrected to more accurately reflect infection/hospital/death rates, we have a vaccine and many people have been infected and now have natural immunity to this bug.

We are not going to eradicate this virus off of the planet nor has that ever been a goal or expectation. All of the hoops we have been jumping through this past year were meant to prevent our medical facilities from becoming overwhelmed. We appear to have accomplished the goal. If you are worried about catching Covid, get the shot.

So we determine that a nice steady 800 or so deaths per day will not overwhelm our healthcare system and call that good enough? 300,000 additional deaths per year is a small price to pay to not have to wear a mask in Publix?

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

This is only half-true.

If I'm wrong to vaccinate, *I* will pay the price. If someone is wrong about NOT vaccinating, everyone will pay the price.

I penned a post stating the exact same thing but with a lot more words. I decided to delete said post and then I see this post from you. Thank you for your succinct way of saying what I wanted to say.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Any chance at all you have a source for that 700,000 number?

According to Our World in Data, The US saw 511,000 deaths from AIDS between 1990 and 2017. The peak was 45,000 in 1995 and since 2014 the number has been about 7,000 per year. (Note: CDC information says 15,820 people diagnosed with HIV died in 2018 but is careful to say this is the number of deaths from any cause and not necessarily AIDS)

Compare that with a solid 400,000 in ONE YEAR ALONE for Covid. That's an average of 33,333 each month compared to 7,000 per year.

Covid may primarily affect those with preexisting conditions but as the list of preexisting conditions becomes large it approaches "everyone."

I'm just trying to figure out how someone can get AIDS by just walking down the street or going to a restaurant.

An AIDS vaccines is appropriate to those that engage in behavior that puts them at risk.

The comparison is kinda amusing. If the only way you could get Covid was by sharing syringes and needles or putting an appendage in an inappropriate location I doubt we'd have a half million deaths...

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

So we determine that a nice steady 800 or so deaths per day will not overwhelm our healthcare system and call that good enough? 300,000 additional deaths per year is a small price to pay to not have to wear a mask in Publix?

300,000 is ten times the worse year ever for Polio. So, no, that isn't acceptable.

However, in life there are risks. How you deal with them is a personal matter AS LONG AS YOU DON'T CAUSE SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE TO BE IN DANGER.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

That's not true - at the level we are at right now, with less than 50% vaccinated, it has nothing to do with the vaccine and everything to do with herd immunity that the vaccine will help provide.

There are still people who are waiting to get the vaccine, and kids aren't approved yet. That will happen soon.

Personally, I see no reason to wear a mask any longer. Overwhelming evidence says that a fully immunized person in the 95th percentile cannot get nor give the virus to others.

I can reasonably assume I am in the 95th percentile as I have recovered from Covid and been vaccinated, as has my whole family. But I will continue to wear the mask out of a sense of public decency and responsibility.

Kinda interesting that the people who refuse to be vaccinated are the same people who refuse to wear the mask....

I'm not sure I would make that generalization. I've seen some folks say they refuse the vaccine but still continue to mask and social distance. At least those folks are smart enough to do what they can to keep themselves and their loved ones safe. Not being vaccinated certainly isn't going to do it.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Byte1

How does that happen? If you are right and vaccinated, how is "everyone" going to pay? If your vaccination is good then you and everyone else "protected" will be fine. If the UN-vaccinated is wrong, then the only folks in danger are the ones that are being ostracized on here, or wherever. Why do you insist on claiming that everyone is going to perish if some don't get vaccinated? You all keep suggesting that we can't gain herd immunity as long as this thing keeps mutating. Something that I don't completely agree with, but may be true. Who knows? But, the virus will eventually dissipate and folks will be able to breath a little while they wait for the next plague to arrive.
So, the point is that the UN-inoculated can only harm those that are UN-inoculated.

No, I agree with OBB and have always had that mindset. Back in the day when all we had to discuss was masking (pre-vaccines). I, continually tried to relay to people that masking would help us to mitigate the virus and get back to what we once knew as "normal". Seems that didn't work at all because not enough people were on board with that mindset and just wore their masks over their mouths or directly on their chins or not at all. Can't mitigate anything THAT way. One down. One to go........

Now we have the vaccines to get us out of this mess of a pandemic. THIS is our salvation for our country to finally achieve herd immunity. NOT SO FAST. How can we get back to the normal we all know and not reach herd immunity? Quick answer......WE CANNOT. THIS is the reason the anti-vaxxers, the non-vaxxers, the hesitant vaxxers, the religious objector vaxxers and the medical issues non-vaxxers will effect EVERYONE.

I used the same mantra for the masks and I am now for the vaccines. Here I go AGAIN.............

How about filling the sports stadiums with asses in ALL seats? What about going to a full movie theater with a stranger actually sitting next to you? How about sending children to school for in person learning and the parents not being fearful their little one will come home with this deadly virus? How about filling cruise ships and enjoying cruising once again? How about filling churches and synagogues with no need to social distance? How about Broadway theaters opening up again so we can enjoy first class live theater? (I'm there in a heartbeat when that happens. I LOVE live theater). I could go on and on and on and on.

YUP.....same mantra I've been spouting for a year now. Hasn't changed and there are still people that prevent us from the normal lives we once took for granted.

Yup.....those folks who refuse vaccination most certainly effect EVERYONE!

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Some people have no desire to be Test Subjects! Very few people have done any research on these vaccines. The heard is all the people blindly linking up to get the jab. Others are a bit wiser. Just my opinion which I am entitled to... at least for now!

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

much less those that were driving alone in a car with a mask on.

I saw a LOT of this. In fact on one of my NJ commutes a couple months back, a guy was alone with a mask on, driving like he'd been pithed.

Of course there's video Route 208 driver, driving like he's lacking oxygen - YouTube

I haven't seen it as much in the last month we've been down here in TV, but I did see it a few times.