I am "up North" for the summer. Here, there is zero social distancing by kids. They are playing football, basketball, soccer, softball, etc. There is little league baseball going on. The beach is wall to wall kids, all about 3" apart. For the kids, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by not reopening schools. The issue is will teachers and staff be safe?

Some parents can't go to work if their kids are not in school. I have heard child psychologists talk about how destructive it is for kids not to have a school environment. We have to try to find ways to mitigate the risk for teachers, but go ahead with reopening. We have no idea when and how this pandemic will end. We can't stay closed forever.

"If kids can go to the mall, the beach, pool parties with friends, church camps, summer jobs, team sports etc they can go back to school."

In states with increasing cases and hospitalizations, kids clearly shouldn't be doing those things.

The fact is that on a population adjusted basis, looking at deaths, the U.S. is not doing worse than much of Europe. Maybe we will pass them in time, but so far there are still several countries in Europe that have more deaths per million people than the U.S. Also, New York, if it was a country, would be the worst country on earth for COVID-19. Their nursing home policies were a complete and utter disaster. New York's experience has dragged down results for the entire U.S.

"If someone refuses to wear a mask because this is a free country...what's the school's position?"

Wearing a mask has - or should - have nothing to do with being a free country. It is about public health, the common good and protecting others, and others protecting us.

The schools need to be open. Life is not safe. Present the facts the opportunity and the choice to go or not. If the stay at homes can do the assignment. Grade and pass fail as the case may be. If the stay at home parent can help with instructions great if not too bad. Sink or swim. Kinda cold I know. Life isn’t easy.

What are the number of positive and negative test results in these countries? Probably not testing at the same level as the USA!

What I am amazed about is how many people are OBSESSED with this virus. Scouring websites, printing graphs, fact checking each other, taking about it non-stop. Endless threads on this website. Fear mongering. But I guess some people have to find something to do while they have stopped living. I'm also amazed how quickly people have bought into this "world is going to end" mantra. Have you not heard how the numbers are being over reported - drastically over reported. And for those that say one death is too many - give me a break. Name one thing, anything, that doesn't cause someone to die. It's a fact that we live, then we die. Fact check that.

Really?
 

Maybe you should take your own advice and listen to actual doctors and experts.

Get a grip. Stop the fear mongering.

The comment you are replying to contains a gigantic error.

Originally Posted by blueash
It discusses the situation in Sweden and Denmark. Neither country had the community spread we have here.

Sweden was hit very hard by the virus with 7300 confirmed cases per million, USA is 9772 per million. Sweden is ranked #12 in the world for cases per million, USA is ranked #8. So saying Sweden did not have similar community spread to USA is complete nonsense.

Current COVID-19 situation - COVID 19 graph & data

So when you look at actual data from Sweden which kept schools open during entire outbreak and see zero deaths and very low positive cases in students and teachers you can see that in reality, reopening schools is not dangerous. Lots of people will make erroneous statements or quote irrelevant facts and try to convince you otherwise.

PS In regard to testing, USA has tested double the amount per capita as Sweden as I noted previously.

We are the greatest nation on earth, of course we can find a way! If parents don’t think it’s safe keep home schooling, it’s that simple. Now let’s press on with important stuff. How to stop robocalls!

It seems we can't control the virus in the state of Florida and it grows each day so how can we expect the schools to be safe for our most precious children. Marge

I know an American who has for several years taught physics in a South Korean school. When the Chinese coronavirus outbreak started they closed the schools and he flew back to the US with his wife and baby. He taught over the internet for quite a while. Then in May he flew back, going through a two week quarantine after a thorough check at the airport. He then went back to teaching at the school. This is how the South Koreans are conducting school. It is a new norm for sure. South Korea'''s COVID precautions as students head back to school offers a glimpse of what'''s needed to re-open - ABC News

Thread
 

It has to be tough being a parent with school age kids right now...you aren't sure if you should be buying back to school things, or just more wine

I spoke with an elementary principal yesterday...all 12 of the custodians at her school are currently out for 14 days due to one of them testing positive earlier in the week for the virus....although the custodians have been working for awhile, there's no way the building will be ready to open for the deadline.

At least one teacher is in quarantine as are a couple of aids

Do I personally think it's safe...to a degree yes, but this is not a yes or no question. It's a no for anyone (young of old) with a health issue.

It's critical that kids education continue...and they need to get out of the house and socialize with their friends...

IMHO there are too many open questions for those of us that are "beyond arm's length" to make an informed decision on this. I do believe that the adults will be the ones that will be most at risk though, as kids bounce back quickly.

So what happens when a significant number of teachers and aids in a school test positive? Or there's an outbreak among the bus drivers or the custodians? or the cafeteria staff?
Is there a contingency plan...most likely not.

If a teacher tests positive...does the whole class go into quarantine? If the teachers all share a lunch/break room, how many peers would have to go into quarantine?

If someone refuses to wear a mask because this is a free country...what's the school's position?

Are teachers, staff and students going to be screened upon entry daily, will they all wear masks? and will those that show signs of the virus be sent home? (or quarantined somewhere in the school until a parent can come for them)

What's the deal with meal programs? Many families depend upon the school meal program...will the school cafeteria practice social distancing?

Are the classrooms large enough so that the desks can be arranged in a social distancing pattern...or do class sizes need to be smaller?

Will every school have someone empowered to make the right call on all of the above?

We can't continue to 'give up' teaching the arts, history, geography, shop, home economics and gym...these are important too

It's time that a 'new model' for learning is introduced at all levels in the system....a blend of f2f and virtual most likely needs to be embraced. There should be enough folks in the higher ranks in the educational hierarchy to focus on designing a new approach for learning. Universities have done it...no reason that public school systems can't.

The younger generation has grown up with technology...it's the old adults that will have the most challenge making any shift from the traditional f2f format[/QUOTE]
This is a free country, is true but kind of self fish not to wear mask when you go out. It is to protect yourself and others. How hard is to understand that???::pray:

Safe to open?
 

IMO, if we DON'T reopen, pretty much everything, we will never gain the herd immunity few need. Personal responsibility should be what keeps us (a bit) safer, not government mandates - especially when "what we know" changes regularly.

I wear a mask as a courtesy - to protect others from me, not to protect myself. That nothing more than respect for others.

proper education?
 

But that our kids could get a "proper education" in our government schools.

You are right that college professors are not at more risk than are the other groups you mention. Perhaps less! Elementary and secondary teachers are in a similar position. They all need to take great care. I do know that many viruses go around, and I did accept that. I was careful enough that I was able to accumulate 370 days of sick leave. My intent was not to complain that teachers have it hard. My intent was to answer the original question regarding what is likely to happen this school year. I think many colleges will end up returning to online teaching by mid-semester. This will affect the economy in ways many people haven’t considered. In the town where my university is located, the school is by far the biggest employer, and many of those employees are local people.

My granddaughter caught COVID-19 at a Lady Lake daycare in the beginning of June. The school notified the parents that another student was positive and closed the school for cleaning. Seven year old granddaughter only had a sore throat and a deep cough. No fever. She spread to her mom and teenage brothers Before they suspected it was COVID. The teens took 10 days to have mild symptoms. Just sore throat and fatigue that lasted about 10-12 days. My daughter got sick 2 days after exposure and is still sick a month later! She has had a positive test. She had headache, chills, sore throat, deep cough and severe fatigue aches and brain fog. Much worse response than the kids. So yes, kids can get it and spread it to the parents!

I agree with you. When I started teaching at my state university in 1986, students were allowed to smoke in the unventilated hallways and teachers were allowed to smoke in their offices and in the classrooms. (They weren’t allowed to drink on campus, though my department chair kept a bottle of scotch in his desk drawer.) Then students were not allowed to smoke in the halls. Then they weren’t allowed to smoke in their dorm rooms. Then teachers weren’t allowed to smoke in the classroom. The teachers weren’t allowed to teach in their offices. (This led to most teachers who smoked giving it up.) To me this seems like a matter of personal freedom (though I’ve never smoked a cigarette). Oddly, no one complained, not, even the union leaders who were heavy smokers.

I would assume that if masks are required at my school, masks will be worn. It’s not a matter of freedom. I wouldn’t be allowed to go to class without pants, even if I want to. Does that infringe on my freedom? Sure. But I live with it. I wouldn’t have been allowed to make sexist or racist remarks in class. I could lose my job over it. Does that infringe on my freedom of speech? Yes! But I didn’t want to, anyway. Even freedom of expression and speech has many limits in this country. So does freedom od assembly, and the press, and worship. Freedom from face masks was not enshrined in the Bill of Rights.

I think that the colleges should reopen their campuses. Period. All of this strange, and quite frankly UNscientific freaking out over this thing is disturbing - especially in higher learning. If someone needs to avoid human contact then they can distance learn.

No way Jose! Better to try for after Jan when more is known about CV. Maybe some treatment springs up. Also needed are full PPEs provided through the DPA legislation.

I am an actively employed 25-year middle school teacher and a part-time online AP world history teacher in Hawaii researching retirement options, maybe early retirement. I can personally attest educators want to see their kids in the classroom. Most teachers teach because it is important work, not for the salary. Online instruction does not work for every student. Motivated, intelligent students do well. If a student has special needs, lacks support at home, is homeless, and/or lacks motivation, online learning can be challenging. Online instruction takes more time to prepare than face-to-face instruction and many teachers had to be trained because it is different. Many teachers had to teach from home while their own kids were at home competing with computer use, just as any working parent had to do. Nothing beats face-to-face instruction. Parents depend on schools being open so they can go to work. Kids need to socialize with each other. It is not healthy being in front of a screen most of the day. Safety is a huge issue.

We plan on rotating students in secondary schools. We will split the classes - one group attends Mon. and Wed., the other group attends on Tues. and Thurs. When one group is at school, the other half are online. Friday is for students who have special needs or need other interventions, IEP meetings, etc. We do not have the physical space for social distancing. Our class sizes have always been too large. We do not have enough personnel. We have always had a teaching shortage, especially in Hawaii. Believe me, there are not enough people who want to substitute teach, let alone choose a teaching career. We do not have enough resources. I purchase my own disinfectant, tissues, and other supplies yearly and will no doubt increase that this year. Schools are germy Petri dishes. We require 6-foot distancing and masks at stores, but aren't our kids and teachers important too? What happens if, no when, a teacher gets sick and is out for a minimum of 2 weeks? What happens when teachers and students bring the virus home to an at-risk family member? Our COVID numbers are low in Hawaii - totaling approximately 1,100 in the entire state, 19 deaths. The numbers will go up when the 14-day travel quarantine is lifted and tourists from the hot spots visit. I hope to teach 2-5 more years until I retire - hopefully to the Villages. My husband is healthy but had a kidney transplant. He is staying with his 93-year-old mom on the mainland. I suggested he stay there until we have a vaccine because I do not want to risk his health when I return to school in 3 weeks. Be safe everyone. I am praying for a vaccine, it's our only solution right now as opposed to survival of the fittest. Sorry this is so long but thought you may want to hear a working teacher's perspective.

I too was interested in how the Swedish approach would work out. Not well, as it turns out.

Death Rates per 100,000:

Norway 4.7
Finland 6.0
Denmark 10.5
Sweden 54.0

Sweden's economy is in the tank, just like everyone else's. Just saw an interview with a Swedish restaurateur. She had three restaurants, 150 employees. She's down to one restaurant, 10 employees. You can't fix the economy until you squash the virus. We had our chance when we quenched the first wave - then we blew it.

BTW, South Korea, Japan, Iceland, New Zealand squashed the virus, now their economies are full steam ahead (with the exception of no crowds at sporting events). Simple approach - large-scale testing, tracing, and isolation, something the greatest country in the world couldn't manage.

New Zealand 0.5
South Korea 0.6
Japan 0.8
Iceland 2.8
U.S. 40.7

US still in 1st wave. 2nd will be in fall/winter.

Another reason for home schooling. Keep your children safe and give them a better education than indoctrination in public schools.

How is the virus squashed anywhere when it is still all over the world? Not having a current outbreak doesn't mean that the virus is no longer out there.

People who think that this virus is miraculously going to go away because people are wearing homemade masks are engaging in magical, wishful thinking.

I think that it is dangerous to open fully, a modified schedule say Monday, Tuesday for half; thorough cleaning on Wednesday and Thursday, Friday for the other half; the children that were not in school would connect through distance learning, and have interaction with the others in the classroom. Masks should be required. There is no way that there is anyway a school could know all the contacts children have had, they could be carriers and no one would be aware of it. A classroom crowded with children is a germy place under the best of circumstances. The argument that it is hard on working parents doesn't fly, since when were schools a babysitting service?

Being a retired school teacher, Gracie, what is your opinion?

I was reading some of the responses and wondered how bad it could be to just forget school and formal education for a year to see if things are better and safer later for teachers and kids. I hear arguments that children forget what they learned over summer, but I don't know. I remember my high school French and some really useless higher math and I graduated in '57. Perhaps they could be taught to be helpful keeping the home clean or seeing how it is to plant vegetables and fruit to eat, or even planting flowers and tending them. I mowed the yard with an old fashioned no motor lawn mower and we had a hill in front. It was HOT in July. High school kids could be taught how to run a home and how much it costs and to be careful and prudent with money. There are so many important things like that, that have been neglected. Older kids could make virtual visits to seniors alone in nursing homes for a chat and a laugh together.........so many things in this world need to be learned that are not taught in school.

Teachers could during that time find employment in another field. I have always thought that all education would be improved if our teachers were involved for awhile in retail business.

You asked. That is my fifty cents, sir.

Certainly the virus is not squashed worldwide, all any given country can do is worry about themselves. I would call the virus squashed in a country when the population can safely dine-in at restaurants, safely work side by side in offices and factories, and when people arrive from other countries are tested immediately to insure they are not bringing the virus in. Countries like South Korea and New Zealand have done this. They have reached a point where people are not afraid to socialize and go to work. Their economies are functioning at 95% until there is a vaccine or treatment.

We could have spent a few hundred billion to squash the virus here, instead we are slapping band-aids on. We have already spent trillions on emergency aid packages and are no closer to having the virus under control.

And wonderfully stated. You carried me back to my own childhood. :bigbow:

Hmmm Sweden's stats look much better when you compare them to this list of top ten death rates in the World.

Countries and US states with highest death rates per million

1. New Jersey 1757 deaths per million
2. New York 1665
3. Connecticut 1220
4. Massachusetts 1206
5. Rhode Island 921
6. Belgium 853
7. DC 805
8. Louisiana 733
9. United Kingdom 659
10. Michigan 632

So 5 US States have the very worst death rates per million in the world. US States have 7 of the highest death rates in the world. I included District of Columbia because they keep their own stats and made their own policies about lockdown etc. Those 7 states combine for a total of 71,351 covid 19 deaths, which is 52% of all covid 19 deaths in USA. 52% of deaths and only 16% of total population.

Mahalo for your insightful post. This upcoming school year is going to be challenging for all -- students, parents, teachers, principals, administrators, administrative support staff, bus drivers, cafeteria workers and custodial staff. You are all going into uncharted territory, and I hope all of you can stay safe and healthy.

Thanks you for your Typical Talking Points.... Nothing but Scare Tactics - "WILL cause some children to die".... :ohdear:

Parents - Since when are they experts to stop OTHER children from learning!
Educators - Run by Unions who decides for them!
Health Official - Clueless!

You can't contain what you don't even know you have. The virus was widespread before we even knew what we were looking at. What happened in March was hysteria. The hysteria has led to some bizarre health mandates like putting COVID-19 positive patients in with vulnerable elderly residents of LtCs, hospital procedures were put into place to prevent the spread to healthcare workers but those same procedures led to deadly delays in treatment. There was that loud cry for ventilators and when they were provided, suddenly they weren't needed anymore.

After months of doing our part to socially isolate and flatten the curve - businesses shut down, professional sports seasons ended, no concerts, bars, casinos, elective medical procedures cancelled or postponed indefinitely, schools and college campuses shut down, gyms, restaurants, salons shuttered, DMV closed....after months of this, we finally start to cautiously reopen only to have massive crowds of protesters, some wearing masks, some not wearing masks allowed to swarm the cities.....

So, now, after just seeing our 4th of July celebrations cancelled, we are being scolded for not doing enough to prevent the spread....it's just this perpetual blame game that just will not end.

The cure is worse than the disease.

Only if neither you, your family or those that are close to you don't get sick. When they do you and you see how bad it can be, you might think otherwise. We don't get to see how devastating it can be, only what the mild cases are or what we read. As with everything, nothing is a big deal until it impacts you.

Life comes with risks. If I spent my days obsessively worrying about things that could go wrong I would never allow my teenager to drive or swim in the ocean.

A month or so ago, I was driving home one day when a bolt of lightning came out of a gray cloud hovering up above and struck the ground (Boom!) right next to my car. It was wild and it was freaky. But I haven't stopped going outside because of it.

That is NOT a talking point. That is a fact known by anyone with normal grey matter.:pray:

Child drowning deaths have gone up significantly in the state of Florida ever since the virus restrictions were put into place. Most of the deaths are happening in swimming pools.