Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1962541)

It will ABSOLUTELY happen in the NEAR future because A.I. and ROBOTIC will be doing the work of people. It IS the future and could cause some degree of social disruption. Society and government will have to solve the problem of people with maybe too much free time. How can they keep their lives meaningful?

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 1962227)

They always get a day off for a holiday that occurs on a weekend. It is either a Friday or a Monday.

13 days of sick leave per year may not sound like a lot, but it can be accululated over the years. So, if you are a supervisor of long term employees, many of the employees will have the option of using an entire year of accumulated sick leave and be absent from the job any time they want. They can even use it to care for another person they know. There are many Federal employees in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, who almost never show up for work. A "for profit" business could never operate with those rules.

Originally Posted by Cranford61 (Post 1962237)

Government work is soul-sucking. To survive you must put your free thinking mind into a spider hole until, hopefully, when you retire, you can recreate your life. Few do.

Originally Posted by kenoc7 (Post 1962182)

It is so sad to see so many mean spirited posts in this thread that show no appreciation of American history.

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 1962448)

You are not correct about the doctor's certificate. The employee doesn't even need to be sick, but can use sick leave to help a friend or family member. If a manager asks for a doctor certificate, they will usually be charged with an EEO complaint for discrimination. The employee will just ask for the documentation used by other employees who took sick leave, and the manager will not have it, hence, discrimination. In 35 years as a Federal employee, I never saw a case where an employee was prevented from using any sick leave they wanted. There were even some employees who would go on sick leave for a year or so, with no intention of returning to work, and then file for their retirement. That gives them an entire extra year of pay, benefits, and longevity, before retiring.

Originally Posted by spd2918 (Post 1962256)

Ah, another excuse to celebrate how bad some people had things in the distant past. Why do some people promote themselves as victims when they live in the most opportunistic society ever?

Its all about political power. If we can keep victimhood alive then we can make people hate each other. Angry people are easy to control.

Originally Posted by Spalumbos62 (Post 1962538)

Not grossly over what most companies give.

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 1962443)

I don't know what you mean by tone, but I was just stating the facts about the sick leave rules for Federal employees. If you are an employee for 20 years, you can accumulate 260 days of sick leave and 30 days of vacation time. That, added to the current year's weekends, vacation days, holidays, and sick leave, will allow the employee to be away from work for more than a year. There is no way a Federal manager can efficiently manage a project when their employees have that much flexibility in the work schedule.

As far as Federal employees working hard, they only need to work 40 hours per week and, if you want them to work longer, you must pay them overtime. It is illegal to not pay them.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1962556)

I take it you were never a manager. There are employees who may try filing a grievance but a good manager would have the documentation to counter it.

A year on sick leave with no documentation from a medical professional? I seriously doubt it. Where I worked if you were off even seven days you could expect to be asked for documentation. A full year? Sure, odd, one-off things happen; 12 people have walked on the moon but that hardly equates to Americans all go to the moon.

Originally Posted by Joe C. (Post 1962285)

So we have another federal holiday that ALL AMERICANS can't identify with. Do we really need it? Or is it just paying lip service to a small minority? Most Americans either never heard of Juneteenth (not even a real word) or if they did, weren't really interested in it.
So I consider it another notch in the slow decline of the U.S.A.

I do believe in July 4th......a day to celebrate ALL AMERICANS.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1962557)

There was a Black lynched in1981, not the"DISTANT" past!

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1962563)

Mathematically, that is correct but it is a fantasy.
1. The person who has used zero sick leave in 20 years is not about to use it all at once.
2. No manager would allow their employee to be on sick leave for that long without medical documentation. (Yes, I have seen Fed employees fired for abuse of sick leave)

As far as Fed employees working hard, you apparently don't have a clue. Every place has its slackers but I personally know Fed employees who regularly worked uncompensated hours and others who gave away their annual leave rather than taking it. It is usually (not always) illegal to not pay a Fed employee for all the hours they work but it is also illegal to pay them 40 hours if they worked less - it goes both ways.

Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1962306)

Just another "notch" for the special interest groups.
Doesn't mean much, if at all, to most!

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1962567)

It is a righteous, evolved moment to be celebrated and marks the beginning of a future where ALL races are equally invested in America - NOT just an America for the exclusive benefit of WHITES. The future belongs to ALL races.

Originally Posted by lkagele (Post 1962362)

Really? Public employees are paid more on average than private workers. They also have better benefits both during work and afterwards during retirement. Government doesn't really worry about a budget so public jobs are typically overpaid and over-staffed. The risk of getting fired in the public sector is miniscule compared to the private sector.

Public unions (which should be outlawed, IMO) have taken advantage of no real entity with actual skin in the game on the other side of the negotiating table. All one has to do is look at the abhorrent behavior of the majority of the teacher's unions during the pandemic. They kept their teachers from working while never missing a pay check. Then, much of the stimulus money went to pay bonuses.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1962376)

You are right, but wasting your time here. People here hear ONE story about an employee that supporters their position that government employees are lazy and get away with whatever, and that confirms their views. So, it becomes a mantra to be repeated. The same as the claim that people are buying lobster with food stamps - sure one or even a few did, the other 38 million people didn't, but that doesn't stop the hair fire about all the people doing it. It's a thing - find ONE case of something bad, and rant about how the entire thing is bad.

Liberals are guilty of this too - look at Jan 6th - not all Republicans supported that, but liberals tend to blame them all.

It's like high school pep rallies, screaming and ranting on the other school. I thought by the time people retired they could grow up.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1962597)

Tribalism was an anthropological strength many eons ago. Primitive man was wary of any NOT of their small tribe. It was a survival skill then. Now, it is STILL hardwired into our brains (the base reptilian area). Consciously, today, we overcome those primitive impulses because of the greater benefits of trade, technology spread, and ease of travel. Apparently, there is human variability in the quality of the human conscious brain.

Originally Posted by geltner@verizon.net (Post 1962383)

The holiday is great but they should have canceled another day off to keep holidays from adding up. So many workers do NOT get these days off and have to pay for the federal, state workers who don't work and still get paid.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1962604)

It is NOT a zero-sum-game. A Federal employee getting a holiday COULD (?) help others to get the SAME holiday. It does NOT have to be a deterrent. Not sure why it would bother anyone?

Originally Posted by spexdr (Post 1962437)

As was stated it’s a lot fewer but I do believe we should combine them perhaps Martin Luther King day along with Juneteenth. Another day off for federal employees means millions of dollars in tax payer money going to salaries with no production. We combined Washington and Lincoln’s birthdays to make Presidents’ Day so the precedent has been set.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1962457)

Pretty much the way it is. Predatory capitalism has taken over the US, and the corporations are sewing fear, uncertainty, and doubt to lock in their ownership of the country and its government.

Originally Posted by Joe V. (Post 1962496)

Slaves brought to America were sold by black Africans either directly or to to the Moors, as their middleman.

Originally Posted by manaboutown (Post 1962491)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neils View Post
When are the special holidays for American Indians? Italian Americans, Asian Americans, Latino Americans?




FALSE!

"Tribal territories and the slave trade ranged over present-day borders. Some Native American tribes held war captives as slaves prior to and during European colonization. Some Native Americans were captured and sold by others into slavery to Europeans, while others were captured and sold by Europeans themselves In the late 18th and 19th centuries, a small number of tribes adopted the practice of holding slaves as chattel property, holding increasing numbers of African-American slaves.[1]

European influence greatly changed slavery used by Native Americans, as pre-contact forms of slavery were generally distinct from the form of chattel slavery developed by Europeans in North America during the colonial period.[2][3] As they raided other tribes to capture slaves for sales to Europeans, they fell into destructive wars among themselves, and against Europeans.[2][3][4]"

From: Slavery among Native Americans in the United States - Wikipedia

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1962503)

My thought is that I was always under the impression that America was about inclusion, not exclusion. Having a specific date made a federal holiday based on race seems to be separating the races instead of impressing the idea of inclusion upon citizens. But, like covid relief checks, everyone would vote for a paid day off and accept a federal holiday, no questions asked. Humans are easily bought with FREE stuff. Another way to "legally" buy votes.
I have to agree with the other poster that said that the holiday should be merged with MLK's birthday, just like Washington and Lincoln's birthdays were merged. It is the practical thing to do. It won't happen as long as the powers that be give away freebies, but no one seems to care about the national debt anymore, not either side of the political spectrum.
Arguing about gov employee benefits is a moot point and has hardly anything to do with it. Leave has changed over the decades,as well as gov retirement. At one time, gov employees did not have social security, they do now. The percentage of pension has changed also. As a matter of fact, since I retired they started allowing sick leave to be used toward retirement, where they didn't before and you lost it if you did not use it. Things change.
Slavery was a bad thing, but none of my family was responsible for it. My family is a family of immigrants that came over well after the civil war. Still, I do not know anyone that is directly effected by slavery, so I can't relate to this. At least, not American slavery. There was other slavery.
This whole discussion is interesting and informative, but not really going to change anything. My opinion is that some folks are just pushing buttons by implementing this "federal holiday" at this time. Other than attempting to buy votes, I can not see where it is doing anything to heal the racial divide.

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC (Post 1962508)

Do we really need a holiday to tell us this? I would think morality tells us.

and why is it racist to question this new holiday?

Originally Posted by Irishmen (Post 1962514)

case study in virtue signaling

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1962620)

OK, a minor example that proves the overall rule. Not important!

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1962622)

It will go a long way to healing the racial divide.

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan (Post 1962547)

Can you provide any evidence of this?

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 1961763)

Every Federal office I ever "worked" in was so overstaffed that all the essential work was done by about 20 percent of the employees. The other 80 percent either did no work or just got in the way. Adding another holiday will have no affect on productivity or cost.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1962628)

Those IRS agents will be CONCENTRATING on the tax forms of the UPPER 1%. If you are NOT in that group, you will have LITTLE to worry about. Agents were let go in the recent past so that the MOST WEALTHY Americans could AVOID their taxes more EASILY. It was successful and the middle class had to pick up the slack. (or tab)

Originally Posted by npwalters (Post 1962649)

Pure opinion on your part. The top 5% of earners pay 50% of all federal income tax.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1962456)

You know........Germany and French citizens get something like 45 days off - and their countries are NOT falling apart because of it. (France can't get a handle on its immigration problems) Germany is still able to sell BMW and Mercedes Benz vehicles at competitive prices worldwide. Germany has Unions that HELP the companies. The US has fallen victim to propaganda that demonizes Unions - for the purpose of higher profits and HUGE salaries for UPPER-level managers and CEOs. US people and workers are JUST STUPID for allowing this to develop since 1950. Don't think it IS stupid? You as a worker could (?) be having MORE days off AND making a higher salary AND US society would be stronger and more STABLE as a result. Only a few, the CEOs and upper-income developers would have to tighten their belts. WHAT is NOT to like? And PLEASE, don't warn of a communist takeover - it NEVER happened in Germany or Australia - that's a red herring!

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1962611)

Societies become MORE efficient when they have MORE vacation days, not LESS. For Example, Germany is considered very efficient and they get about 2 months off.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1962619)

Seems like THAT happened outside the borders of the US and it is a minor detail. There will ALWAYS be minor exceptions to every principle!