Reality is no one knows how long the immunity will last since it does not go deep enough to T-cell immunity.

I am not anti-vax at all....as long as it is safe and I know what is in it.

It has not been established yet just how short or long term these vaccines will protect us. Some reports say at least 6 months so far and other reports say we may never need a booster. That leaves somewhere in between but no one really knows as of yet.

You mention "partial immunity". The initial trial efficacy of these mRNA vaccines was pretty darn high and they remain pretty darn high in real life efficiency. Did you expect 100%? I didn't.

Also I am having trouble trusting the CDC these days along with FDA and AMA is out to lunch and has been for a while now. The WHO is off the rails.

Wow!?!
Would you mind sharing the sources/data/links/et al that back up such statements.

Holy $h!t. I could be dead now. But.......I'm still here. LOL.

30% of the illegal immigrants are refusing the vaccine yet get transported throughout the states to seed Covid.

Stop with your conspiracy crap.............................says the "vaxers"...(baaaaa)

So which is it? Is it that "the vast majority are unvaccinated" or is it that only "30% of the illegal immigrants are refusing the vaccine?"

How are they able to "seed Covid" if they are first tested and quarantined before they "get transported throughout the states?"

Are the immigrants being transported to Florida? If not, how are they contributing to the topic of this thread?

Yeah I know, a lot of questions, but it's better to ask questions than claim knowledge while spreading misinformation.

The article you referenced deals with patients who have contracted COVID 19, not people who were vaccinated. Can you provide a study that addresses people who have been vaccinated? Furthermore, the article is about computer simulations. While these are useful in designing experiments, they are not proof positive for the conclusion you have drawn.

As for my credentials, I have Ph.D. In chemistry and spent my career in R&D. I have worked with computer modelers to work through scenarios but always counted on the data from actual experiments to draw conclusions.

Someone knows this...What is the difference between the Spike Protein from the actual virus and from the vaccine...anyone?

I find it interesting that the same people who are quick to point out the high number of positive tests in Florida, and blame it on those who haven’t been vaccinated are the same ones who claim the tests are to blame when the number of vaccinated positives far exceeds the CDC’s claims…
By the way, the seven day average Covid mortality rate in Florida is exactly the same as it was at the end of June…

Wouldn't care about the number of positive tests except that the number of hospitalizations is tracking. The hospitalization are primarily unvaccinated.

Don't remember the CDC making a claim about positive tests, only hospitalizations and deaths. I believe those numbers are still in line with expectations.

That the number of deaths has remained flat is a very good thing but it feels too soon to counting chickens.

The CDC stated a 0.007% (1 in 13,000) breakthrough rate.

1 in 13,000 what, positive tests? Or did they count 1 in 13,000 hospitalizations? I'll find that information tomorrow.

That 30% number is not official and is an internal heresay.

"Arriving migrants who test positive are being directed to local hotels for isolation, as Abbott and Democratic President Joe Biden fight over who is responsible for helping them."


Asked whether the governor had numbers on migrants with COVID-19 who have entered the U.S., Abbott spokesman Renae Eze offered a statement Wednesday: “Because the Biden Administration has refused to step up and do their job, we may never know the true total of COVID-positive illegal immigrants and the impact on our state and our country.”

So, while you can say positively without a doubt that 30% are, the Governor of Texas doesn't know how many.

Let's see, do I go with the Gov or with a rumor?

1. Of those illegal immigrants OFFERED the vaccine at the checkpoints 30% refuse. Most illegals sneak by the checkpoints and most if caught are just herded into holding pens and cages until they are transported around the country to unannounced specific locations.

2. At those locations the illegals spread the Covid Delta variant which first, no coincidence, appeared in South America where the illegals come from.

3. The illegals are being transported to Florida although the exact locations are not known. DeSantis is warning the feds that the deaths are on their hands.

The 6,000 represents 0.007 percent of the 84 million who are fully inoculated.

BUT. It is 6,000 cases that were reported to the CDC. The head of the CDC said at the same time that it is expected that the number is underreported.

So, it is simply all they know from states reporting cases that have been positively identified.

Fewer than 6000 people have gotten covid-19

WOW!!! A patient can develop inflammation after a viral infection. Shocking, thank you Captain Obvious. And a study by "computer model" to boot! So we now need a computer to predict that a COVID patient could develop a post-viral polyarticular polyarthropathy, just like any other virus.

So, just what does this have to with the vaccines, and how does this equate with "poison"

All three of these are not supported by fact-checking. The 30% number is an internal rumor and is not supported by data. There is no evidence that "illegals" are spreading the virus in any significant amount. The third is that the "illegals" are and have been relocated to holding facilities in all states. How many in Florida is not known. Could be 10, could be 10,000, could be 10 million. Those facilities are not in contact with the general public. Sort of non-voluntary isolation.

Apples and orange. At the border checkpoints it is known that 30% of the illegals refuse vaccination. Of course overall most illegals especially the drug dealers and human traffickers do not go through the checkpoints and that is why correctly Gov Abbot is unsure of the total impact.

Please provide a link to a reference. I could only find a reference that I provided that said specifically the number was not known but was nothing more than a rumor.

"it is known" is not proof.

It’s coming next week if not before.

It’s not known cause nobody bean counting. And If they did if it was happy news it wouldn’t be reported.

Who is your fact checker? Snopes? Wikipedia? NYT? WaPo? LOL
The 30% is verified at checkpoints where the govt collects data. The illegals are transported to various states then placed within the native community NOT held in cages there. The Delta variant came from South America where the illegals are from. 2+2=4.

I feel 100% comfortable in asking everyone I come in contact with, if they've been vaccinated. If they say yes, then I don't have to wear a mask. If they say no, I get to put them on the defense and ask them why not.

If they don't tell me it's because they have allergies/immune disorder that prohibits them from vaccinating, then they can buy me a mask, and I'll wear it in their presence.

If they're not willing to pay for the mask they need me to wear, then THEY can go somewhere else.

If they're medically unable to vaccinate, I'll pull out my own mask and wear it, gladly to protect them.

I just stay away (out of personnel zone) from people I don’t know. Heck, I done that before the virus.

Nobody know the true amount of illegals enters country, they only know the total of ones the let in or caught and released.

1 in 13,000 - .007% of vaccinated people will get the virus according to the figures on the CDC’s website. But if those who are vaccinated, are typically asymptomatic with Covid, then they wouldn’t be tested. So how would they know that they had it? Only those who are tested regularly, regardless of symptoms, would more accurately portray the actual percentage of breakthrough cases. That’s what made the 20% positive results of the fully vaccinated NY Yankees so interesting…
And now is when those who want to blindly believe everything the CDC says, will blame those positives on faulty test results…
Whatever fits the narrative…

An ICE official confirmed to Fox News that the vaccine declination rate in all ICE detention centers is 30%.

These illegals are in custody so ICE knows how many are refusing vaccination although that will fluctuate slightly day to day as new detainees arrive. You can also check other sources than FOX that do not lean conservative.

If the 1:13,000 is based on data gathered when there had been only 84M vaccinated then it needs to be updated. I believe someone else has already pointed out that there were caveats given at the time.

I believe the initial trials of the vaccine defined cases as symptomatic or possibly even hospitalized in order to determine effectiveness. You can't prove those results wrong by redefining cases as positive test results.

It would be interesting to know what the hospitalization rate is among the vaccinated population. I believe the CDC is collecting that information now, I just don't have the interest in looking it up at the moment. EDIT: Actually, it was easier than I anticipated. As of July 19 the CDC has counted 5,914 hospitalizations or deaths out of 161M vaccinated people or about 1:27,000. Further, the notes on the CDC data suggest that many of these were asymptomatic and were only detected because the individuals were hospitalized for some other reason.

As for the 20%, there are two problems with drawing conclusions from that. One, those results are based on positive test results and not symptomatic illness and; two, the sample size is far too small. You can't look at non-random group of 30 people and draw a conclusion about 164M.

Breakthrough cases are fully vaccinated people who test positive for the virus. I agree just looking at just the Yankees is too small a sample size. But look at all professional athletes and their percentage of breakthrough cases. They are among the most tested people on the planet. And their breakthrough percentage far exceeds the CDC’s stated .007%.
Most people who have been vaccinated and have no symptoms will never be tested. So they will never know if they have Covid and are asymptotic. The bigger question is, how likely are they to spread the virus? That is still being looked into.

You really need to get beyond the 0.007%. The CDC did not claim that as a breakthrough rate, they reported the incomplete data they received (43 states and undercounted) and the result from that data was 0.007%. That data is now several months and 80M vaccinations old.

There are a few things we don't know:
- How many people would test positive if tested today
- How many people who test positive have a coronavirus infection and how many just have a detectable level of whatever the test looks for
- How many people who test positive are carrying enough virus to pass it to someone else

There is likely a large difference between having enough coronavirus in your airway to be detectable by a finely-tuned test and having enough coronavirus to be contagious. If the vaccination is successfully preventing the progression from detectable to contagious then we need to set the bar higher before we use the word "case."

True

Opinion.

Best chance of ending the pandemic is by natural immunity according to peer reviewed research.

persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells

[QUOTE=Topspinmo;1978893]It’s not known cause nobody bean counting.

I love beans though they do give me gas. :coolsmiley:

I like you!! :MOJE_whot: :boxing2: Hearsay as fact drives me crazy.

Another conspiracy theory debunked. Thank you.

I'll take a shot........

The spike protein is one component of the virus which allows the virus to attach itself to human cells.

Not here in Florida, especially from our governor who has referred to masks as "muzzles". I saw him say that with my own two eyes and my own two ears. What a buffoon!

As an aside...............I don't expect vaccinated people to have to mask up except where it is posted as required but un-vaxxed should be masking at this point when in public indoor spaces everywhere. Pipe dream, I know given the absolute disdain for masking by the anti-vaxxers.