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  #226  
Old 07-29-2021, 03:48 PM
coffeebean coffeebean is offline
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Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
The source has been banned/censored from multiple sites including YouTube for putting out dangerous misinformation. Not the poster here, but the poster here's quoted source.
Got it. Thank you.
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  #227  
Old 07-29-2021, 03:50 PM
coffeebean coffeebean is offline
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Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
Yup, that is why I ignored him. It does no good to argue or discuss with some people.

I find it amazing that TOTV bans political conversations, and yet, allows proven dangerous misinformation. I don't think anyone ever died arguing about politics here.
Absolutely agree. I would be a money that most people that participate on TOTV can spot a troll and total off the wall misinformation such as this joker is posting.
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  #228  
Old 07-29-2021, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Boffin View Post
Misinformation is not killing people. However, there does seem to be a high correlation between ignorance and gullibility and people dying.
Sorry, respectfully do not agree. Misinformation is most certainly KILLING people. Those are the people who are refusing to be vaccinated. That vaccine is a life saver so don't try to tell me people are not dying because of misinformation.
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  #229  
Old 07-29-2021, 03:53 PM
John41 John41 is offline
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Originally Posted by Irishmen View Post
Smart. Why does our gov't want to shut us down like tyrants they are for a virus 99% survival rate for most of public a little lower for elderly yet have Southern Border wide open no temperature checks no useless masks no anything poring into the inners of our country. Does this make any sense to anyone?
You are correct that allowing illegals to flood the country could be the cause of much of the increase in the delta variant. If the government were really serious about the delta variant they would close the border instead of seeding the country will new Covid cases. While we are vaxxed I respect the right of others to make their own decisions. The NYT recently had a story about the misinformation spread by the government at the top on the virus so we will do what they feel is best for us. A free market of ideas even ones we think ridiculous is best for democracy as it helps to develop critical thinking skills. If we have to rely on censors to think for us we are close to 1984.
  #230  
Old 07-29-2021, 04:47 PM
Boffin Boffin is offline
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Originally Posted by coffeebean View Post
Sorry, respectfully do not agree. Misinformation is most certainly KILLING people. Those are the people who are refusing to be vaccinated. That vaccine is a life saver so don't try to tell me people are not dying because of misinformation.
It is interesting that we both seem to be expressing opinions based on anecdotal evidence. Which, in and of itself, is a form of misinformation.
  #231  
Old 07-29-2021, 05:01 PM
Boomer Boomer is offline
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Originally Posted by John41 View Post
You are correct that allowing illegals to flood the country could be the cause of much of the increase in the delta variant. If the government were really serious about the delta variant they would close the border instead of seeding the country will new Covid cases. While we are vaxxed I respect the right of others to make their own decisions. The NYT recently had a story about the misinformation spread by the government at the top on the virus so we will do what they feel is best for us. A free market of ideas even ones we think ridiculous is best for democracy as it helps to develop critical thinking skills. If we have to rely on censors to think for us we are close to 1984.

Have you actually read Orwell’s 1984 ?

The reason I am asking is that invoking Orwell seems to be a thing now — but I don’t think those who like to throw his 1984 around can possibly have read the book because they have it bass akwards. But that’s a conversation for another time.

For now. . .blaming “news” about the border and about China will not solve the problem that is staring us square in the face. We need to deal with what we can.

Most of the vaccine-deniers are two-legged incubators, walking among us, babbling about their “freedom,” — while they are really just a bunch of freeloaders riding on those of us who have taken responsibility for doing what we can to wage war against the virus.

Boomer — who better get outa here before she tells them what she really thinks. . .

Last edited by Boomer; 07-29-2021 at 05:12 PM.
  #232  
Old 07-29-2021, 05:21 PM
Aces4 Aces4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Boomer View Post
Have you actually read Orwell’s 1984 ?

The reason I am asking is that invoking Orwell seems to be a thing now — but I don’t think those who like to throw his 1984 around can possibly have read the book because they have it bass akwards. But that’s a conversation for another time.

For now. . .blaming “news” about the border and about China will not solve the problem that is staring us square in the face. We need to deal with what we can.

Most of the vaccine-deniers are two-legged incubators, walking among us, babbling about their “freedom,” — while they are really just a bunch of freeloaders riding on those of us who have taken responsibility for doing what we can to wage war against the virus.

Boomer — who better get outa here before she tells them what she really thinks. . .

What you really think may be skewed. Vaccinated or not, it’s been found we all are incubators of Covid19, shots or not with that virus able to morph in our snouts. It may not last as long in the vaccinated but it can exist.

Per poster blueash, (a physician, I believe...)

“The new statement from the CDC reflects the new information on the behavior of the delta virus. Immunized people can be shedders for a period to the same degree as not-immunized people. Thus the recommendation for masks which as you have all been told over and over, do only a little. but not nothing, to protect the wearer and really are meant to protect others from the virus you may be unaware you are shedding.

No one, at least no responsible person who understands Covid, has said that vaccination does not make a difference. It saves lives and reduces morbidity. What it does not do well is prevent colonization with delta virus and shedding.

Thus the recommendation now, always subject to change as new data emerges, is get your shots, both doses to protect yourself from serious or fatal disease. And wear a mask especially indoors to protect others as you may be shedding delta virus even though you feel fine. Wear a mask means cover your nose and your mouth, not just your chin.”

At this point it appears this virus is here to stay and we should get on with living, time is short and don’t buy any green bananas, as they say..
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Last edited by Aces4; 07-29-2021 at 05:44 PM.
  #233  
Old 07-29-2021, 07:51 PM
coffeebean coffeebean is offline
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Originally Posted by Aces4 View Post
What you really think may be skewed. Vaccinated or not, it’s been found we all are incubators of Covid19, shots or not with that virus able to morph in our snouts. It may not last as long in the vaccinated but it can exist.

Per poster blueash, (a physician, I believe...)

“The new statement from the CDC reflects the new information on the behavior of the delta virus. Immunized people can be shedders for a period to the same degree as not-immunized people. Thus the recommendation for masks which as you have all been told over and over, do only a little. but not nothing, to protect the wearer and really are meant to protect others from the virus you may be unaware you are shedding.

No one, at least no responsible person who understands Covid, has said that vaccination does not make a difference. It saves lives and reduces morbidity. What it does not do well is prevent colonization with delta virus and shedding.

Thus the recommendation now, always subject to change as new data emerges, is get your shots, both doses to protect yourself from serious or fatal disease. And wear a mask especially indoors to protect others as you may be shedding delta virus even though you feel fine. Wear a mask means cover your nose and your mouth, not just your chin.”

At this point it appears this virus is here to stay and we should get on with living, time is short and don’t buy any green bananas, as they say..
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I do not agree with the mindset that I, fully vaccinated, must wear a mask to protect others. Anti-vaxxers, hesitant-vaxxers and even conscientious religious objector vaxxers ( a bunch of hooey if you ask me) can just PROTECT THEMSELVES. They should be wearing the masks in public (N95 or equivalent) to protect themselves. Those who can not take the vaccine because of medical reasons or those younger ones who are not eligible for the vaccine can wear masks too to protect themselves. Anyone not willing to wear a PROTECTIVE mask can just stay home.

The way I see it, anyone who is fully vaccinated is already doing their part to protect others. Vaccinated people have less of a chance of being contagious simply because they are less apt to become infected with the virus. So, there you go. Don't expect me to wear a mask to protect those who refuse to protect themselves.
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  #234  
Old 07-29-2021, 08:24 PM
Boffin Boffin is offline
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To each his own.
  #235  
Old 07-29-2021, 09:53 PM
Aces4 Aces4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeebean View Post
I do not agree with the mindset that I, fully vaccinated, must wear a mask to protect others. Anti-vaxxers, hesitant-vaxxers and even conscientious religious objector vaxxers ( a bunch of hooey if you ask me) can just PROTECT THEMSELVES. They should be wearing the masks in public (N95 or equivalent) to protect themselves. Those who can not take the vaccine because of medical reasons or those younger ones who are not eligible for the vaccine can wear masks too to protect themselves. Anyone not willing to wear a PROTECTIVE mask can just stay home.

The way I see it, anyone who is fully vaccinated is already doing their part to protect others. Vaccinated people have less of a chance of being contagious simply because they are less apt to become infected with the virus. So, there you go. Don't expect me to wear a mask to protect those who refuse to protect themselves.
In the event you missed it, antivaxers don’t give a darn what you do, they don’t care if you’ll wear a mask. That’s your government calling those shots. The antivaxers will take their chances or have had Covid 19 already. Relax and do what you want and they will do what is their right. Reread Blueashes article, it appears you’re contagious whether or not you’ve been vaxed. What you may need to do is prepare for constant boosters if the efficacy is lost early.
  #236  
Old 07-30-2021, 03:27 AM
fishon fishon is offline
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Originally Posted by Bill14564 View Post
For your sake, and the sake of those around you, I hope you are as successful in avoiding the plague (virus) as you are in avoiding the jab. Unless things change, there's a better than one in ten chance you won't be so lucky and better than one in 50 that you won't survive to talk about it.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Less than 1% die. Why are you spreading misinformation?
I had covid. I didn't get more than a head cold.
Obviously jab or die is a lie.
I have been tested and found positive for the antibodies.

Many, many people are in this category.
I don't want your experimental shot.
Evidence seems to be mounting that it is ineffective. Get the jab and still get covid? Still become a carrier? Sweet! Just as ineffective as masks.
There may be dire consequences of the shot come to light in the future.
No thanks.
  #237  
Old 07-30-2021, 04:05 AM
Two Bills Two Bills is offline
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Wife and I are in our 80's. and if we thought that catching the virus was just a bad dose of flu, we would have taken our chances and gone for the natural antibody route.
But.
When this virus first struck, the oldies were going down like flies, so when the vaccine came along, the sensible option for us was the vaccination.
Now the variants have arrived, and the vaccinated are getting the new Covid mutations, but nowhere near as many are in hospital, and definitely not as many dying.
So something is working.
Everyone has their own reason for their actions, and keep on banging the drum for any option is not going to change opinions now.
The whole subject is played out, repetitive, and so divisive.
Sad old world.

Last edited by Two Bills; 07-30-2021 at 10:53 AM.
  #238  
Old 07-30-2021, 06:17 AM
Bill14564 Bill14564 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishon View Post
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Less than 1% die. Why are you spreading misinformation?
I had covid. I didn't get more than a head cold.
Obviously jab or die is a lie.
I have been tested and found positive for the antibodies.

Many, many people are in this category.
I don't want your experimental shot.
Evidence seems to be mounting that it is ineffective. Get the jab and still get covid? Still become a carrier? Sweet! Just as ineffective as masks.
There may be dire consequences of the shot come to light in the future.
No thanks.
My numbers are not wrong and I have presented the calculations here many times already. Show me how you calculated that "less than 1% die" and we can discuss.

If you have already had Covid and survived then good for you. 611,000 people have not been as fortunate.

There may be dire consequences to many of the things I do. The virus was "designed" to kill us but sometimes it fails. The vaccine was designed to save us but sometimes it fails. To choose between those two seemed simple to me.
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  #239  
Old 07-30-2021, 07:05 AM
tuccillo tuccillo is offline
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Actually, of confirmed cases, the death rate, overall, is running a bit under 2%, most recently in the US. You can, of course, argue about how deaths are recorded, false positive rates, etc., but if you are looking for a number, in this case from Johns Hopkins, the number is a bit under 2%. It, of course, varies considerably based on age and your overall health. If you are young and healthy, the number is small, very small. You, of course, already know this so I wonder why the apparent obsession with the number.

This topic continues to be belabored. Everything in life carries a risk. The vaccine carries a risk as does not getting vaccinated. Unless you believe in an extremely widespread conspiracy, the 3 vaccines available in the US will drive the probability (yes, probability, there are no guarantees) of a bad outcome (hospitalization and death) to very low numbers. Suggesting that the vaccine's effectiveness is the same as masks is just silly talk unless you can provide a peer reviewed study. Get the vaccine or don't get the vaccine but please stop whining about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishon View Post
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Less than 1% die. Why are you spreading misinformation?
I had covid. I didn't get more than a head cold.
Obviously jab or die is a lie.
I have been tested and found positive for the antibodies.

Many, many people are in this category.
I don't want your experimental shot.
Evidence seems to be mounting that it is ineffective. Get the jab and still get covid? Still become a carrier? Sweet! Just as ineffective as masks.
There may be dire consequences of the shot come to light in the future.
No thanks.

Last edited by tuccillo; 07-30-2021 at 07:19 AM.
  #240  
Old 07-30-2021, 10:18 AM
OrangeBlossomBaby OrangeBlossomBaby is offline
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Originally Posted by Aces4 View Post
In the event you missed it, antivaxers don’t give a darn what you do, they don’t care if you’ll wear a mask. That’s your government calling those shots. The antivaxers will take their chances or have had Covid 19 already. Relax and do what you want and they will do what is their right. Reread Blueashes article, it appears you’re contagious whether or not you’ve been vaxed. What you may need to do is prepare for constant boosters if the efficacy is lost early.
That is actually not true. ANTI-vaxxers are a thing. They are AGAINST vaccines, and AGAINST anyone who chooses to vaccinate, or promote, encourage, or otherwise suggest that people vaccinate.

There's a restaurant in Huntington Beach, California with a sign on its window that proclaims customers must prove that they are NOT vaccinated in order to come in to dine, and that masks are NOT allowed on the premises.

I thought it was a clever sarcastic parody, until I saw an interview of the guy who owns the restaurant (Tony Roman). He's dead serious. He's even selling tee-shirts and bumper stickers with the Godfather graphic and the words "Leave the mask, take the cannoli."

He's not the only one in this country who has this sentiment, he's just the most newsworthy.
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