Originally Posted by nhtexasrn (Post 2001963)

There are many things about Lee that obviously you don't know. For instance, Lincoln offered him command of the United States Army. He refused because of loyalty to his home state saying he could not raise a sword to the state of his home and birth. Lee was a top graduate of the United States Military Academy and an exceptional officer and military engineer in the United States Army for 32 years. During this time, he served throughout the United States, distinguished himself during the Mexican–American War, and served as Superintendent of the United States Military Academy. Countering Southerners who argued for slavery as a positive good, Lee in his well-known analysis of slavery from an 1856 letter called it a moral and political evil. It was said of Lee, "He was a foe without hate; a friend without treachery; a soldier without cruelty; a victor without oppression, and a victim without murmuring. He was a public officer without vices; a private citizen without wrong; a neighbour without reproach; a Christian without hypocrisy, and a man without guile." Yes, he was born into a certain culture and that's all he knew at the time, but it's so much more complicated than what you have stated. He and his wife were both disgusted by slavery even though they were born in to that culture.

Originally Posted by COLTempleton (Post 2001838)

What people may not realize is that the North actually asked Lee to fight for them. Also, Lee did not have slaves and was against slavery.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2001429)

There is nothing about Robert E. Lee that warrants his statue being on display in a public park, UNLESS you want to glorify his attempts at maintaining blacks being officially considered inferior and sub-human.

Originally Posted by nhtexasrn (Post 2001963)

There are many things about Lee that obviously you don't know. For instance, Lincoln offered him command of the United States Army. He refused because of loyalty to his home state saying he could not raise a sword to the state of his home and birth. Lee was a top graduate of the United States Military Academy and an exceptional officer and military engineer in the United States Army for 32 years. During this time, he served throughout the United States, distinguished himself during the Mexican–American War, and served as Superintendent of the United States Military Academy. Countering Southerners who argued for slavery as a positive good, Lee in his well-known analysis of slavery from an 1856 letter called it a moral and political evil. It was said of Lee, "He was a foe without hate; a friend without treachery; a soldier without cruelty; a victor without oppression, and a victim without murmuring. He was a public officer without vices; a private citizen without wrong; a neighbour without reproach; a Christian without hypocrisy, and a man without guile." Yes, he was born into a certain culture and that's all he knew at the time, but it's so much more complicated than what you have stated. He and his wife were both disgusted by slavery even though they were born in to that culture.

Originally Posted by Bay Kid (Post 2001319)

Monument Avenue in Richmond, VA. will never be the same. They have removed the statue. They don't even know the history of Gen. Lee.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2002017)

He committed treason against the United States. The only people who celebrated him were the Confederacy - which existed to overturn the US Government in a massive insurrection that most of us like to call the Civil War.

Originally Posted by nhtexasrn (Post 2002097)

Like I said, it was a complicated time with many issues, not just slavery, but go ahead and write your own version of history.

Originally Posted by bimmertl (Post 2001412)

Really, kids won't know the history of our great country since a Robert E Lee statue was taken down?

Grew up in Wisconsin. Don't believe there were any Lee statues there or anywhere in the Midwest and probably most of the rest of the USA other than the South. Somehow millions of Americans learned US history without seeing statues of Lee. Amazing!

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2001429)

Monuments typically celebrate the winners, and the honored dead who fought for our country. Robert E. Lee was neither. His monument -should- be reconstructed and placed in a museum of some kind, because the monument itself is an official Historic Monument. But the thing this monument represents doesn't need to be on public display in the middle of a park.

The history is: The south LOST. The Confederacy LOST. He wasn't even very good at being a hero - he ultimately surrendered to Grant at the end of the war.

He led 15 battles during the Civil War. He was victorious in only 5 of them. He was defeated in the first battle, the last battle, and two other battles. The rest were inconclusive, and during one of them, Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation.

There is nothing about Robert E. Lee that warrants his statue being on display in a public park, UNLESS you want to glorify his attempts at maintaining blacks being officially considered inferior and sub-human.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 2001491)

What Should West Point Do About Its Robert E. Lee Problem? - Modern War Institute

How about General Robert E. Lee as seen by cadets at West Point in 2020? The comments after the article are worth a long look.

Originally Posted by BigSteph (Post 2001542)

I am from Richmond.

All of the tearing down of the city is one of the reasons I left recently. No, not a big reason, but just another check on the Pro/Con list of reasons to leave.

I get that the monuments are symbols with different meanings to the different types of people that live in the city. If I were black, it would remind me of just how troubled my existence may have been 150 years ago, and continuing to present.

Had we decided as a city to address things and let everyone make a case, it is possible that the monuments could have been respectfully moved to a more appropriate place (such as a national civil war battlefield). Yet, we didn't have those discussions and we had a summer of rage where every manner of illegal activity was allowed to flourish in Richmond. The monuments were defaced. A feel good moment for some, and an insult to others. Civility was on vacation and a line was drawn -- My Tribe or Your Tribe.

Richmond is famous for its past and it cannot escape it. Unlike Charleston and New Orleans and others, Richmond is unable to celebrate the very bad and the good -- hold it up to the truth of the past. The original White House of the Confederacy was in Richmond. The "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death" speech by Patrick Henry from a hundred years earlier is only blocks away. Edgar Allen Poe had a home another block or two away. Mr. Bojangles was a Richmonder. Arthur Ashe was born in Richmond. The QB from the Seahawks, Russel Wilson, is a Richmonder -- my friend coached him in high school -- he said he was a better baseball player than he was at football -- imagine that.


Richmond even had an opportunity to host the national slave museum and somehow it decided against it. Richmond was one of the top locations in America for the importation of human labor (slaves). It would have been fitting to have the National Slave Museum adjacent to the White House of the Confederacy on grand Church Hill. Richmond could have capitalized on its past and gave context to those bronze and granite statues. Context that might be hard to accept by some, and ever-so needed for others.

Instead, like so many urban areas, the city erupted into an unrecognizable orgy of ropes, chains, spray paint, broken windows, and fires. Buses burned in the street, buildings set ablaze, shops looted. The summer was long and hot, covid was raging, and social justice flames fanned hotter. Interesting to note, the vast majority of the faces of the agitators were pale, not brown or black.

I drove downtown weeks later and it looked like something from a picture of a war zone.

I realized that it wasn't a place for me any more. Richmond cannot celebrate its history, it can only tear it down. The thing is, it all still happened.

Originally Posted by NoMo50 (Post 2001833)

Incredible. So, should we tear down the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial since WE lost?