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-   -   I learned something today about our National Anthem... (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/current-events-news-541/i-learned-something-today-about-our-national-anthem-308571/)

ithos 07-04-2020 08:45 AM

I have never been a fan of the Star Spangled Banner as it is way too difficult to sing. As a poster mentioned earlier it was designed to be sung by accomplished singers.

The lyrics are not as relatable as those in other patriotic songs such as America the Beautiful. The first verse was inspired by one battle in the War of 1812.

This post said it the best.

"I love our National Anthem, but I don’t consider Key a good poet or lyricist. I don’t mind working to figure out a piece of poetry, but good lyric poetry meant to be sung is usually more straightforward so the singers have a better idea of what they are singing about."

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...3-post106.html

Regarding the kneelers, it is time to give the Cancel Culture extremists a big dose of their own medicine.

No more support at any level of any sport or organized event that repudiates a country that while far from perfect, has by its founding and subsequent history, established an unprecedented quantum advancement of liberty for peoples of all backgrounds the World over.

blueash 07-04-2020 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Choro&Swing (Post 1797433)
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

The first three lines asks what has happened to the British army that boasted the war would take away our home and country. In line four the answer is found: our soil was polluted by their foul footsteps, but that pollution has been washed out by their blood. “Hireling and slave” in line five refers to the British troops: mercenaries (hirelings) and drafted or “impressed” poor men (though they weren’t actually slaves, they were forced to serve against their will after being essentially kidnapped).

Most readers of Key's work don't agree with your assessment of the meaning of the word slave which you suggest is a substitute for impressed poor men. Key had a good command of language and the word means what it means. Knowing history helps. During the war of 1812 the British offered freedom to any escaped slave who would fight with the British side against the Americans. They were not paid a salary which would have made them hirelings. Instead they were in fact escaped slaves, just like Key wrote. And Key makes the point that escaped slaves will not escape the grave. The British did not have a mercenary force in the war of 1812 unless you include the Native American tribes which fought on their side. Key uses hirelings as an insult to the British soldier suggesting he is only doing his job for money not out of British patriotism. Note that Key never mentions the blood of the British soldier separately.

TexaninVA 07-04-2020 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1797459)
Why do POC feel that there is still a major issue with racism in this country? I present for you a facebook posting by an election officer in Mississippi. She likely will tell you she is not a racist and is perfectly capable of conducting an election without racial animus. She has not resigned.

Her explanation for her posting is just as bad.
"We've always in the past had whites really participating in registering to vote. So many people don't seem to be concerned about [voting]. This was an error on my part."

To no one's great surprise, there are still racist views in the US. Who could have guessed?

The question is .... is there "systemic" racism? The answer is no. The focus on the former is almost like some type of white guilt porn.

By the way, which countries are not racist and clearly better on the race issue than the US?? What are some examples ?

China is off the charts racist compared to the US.

Here are only three, of many, examples:

McDonald'''s apologizes after restaurant in China bans black people

Chinese city targets Africans in coronavirus fight - Los Angeles Times

YouTube

Byte1 07-04-2020 09:15 AM

Calling a nice song "The Black National Anthem" is once again disenfranchising the minorities. Instead of saying that "National Anthem" INCLUDES them, someone is saying that they are still not assimilated into our American culture. Whether or not the so called "Black National Anthem" is nice, does not matter. Separate bathrooms for Blacks was also meant to be a nice gesture, and how did that go?
Still wondering what the "Chinese National Anthem" will be. Perhaps: YouTube
Maybe we can get the Tijuana brass to play something for the Mexican national anthem.
I am sure that blacks will not realize that the NFL is being condescending to them. Instead of integration into American society, they are once again segregated by supposedly well meaning white folk.
Pretty song? Sure, but it ain't a black national anthem. THE American Anthem is inclusive of ALL American citizens, not just the white.

dewilson58 07-04-2020 09:19 AM

A prospective.



The Hodgetwins - NFL To Play "BLACK NATIONAL ANTHEM" Before National Anthem | Facebook

jimh24444@gmail.com 07-04-2020 09:19 AM

about our national anthem
 
Let's see their own national anthem. Next their own country or autonomous zone?

anothersteve 07-04-2020 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 1797555)

And a very good one.

Steve

Byte1 07-04-2020 09:36 AM

Play it during half time if it is that important. If you don't like the National Anthem that we have been standing for and singing for decades, that's your problem. Once again, liberals want to destroy something good about America because "they" don't like it. Tear down and destroy history, so that you can feel like you actually mattered. It seems like that is the only way some bitter folks that made bad decisions in their past think they can make up for it. Destroy America. FORCE something on the Majority to show how powerful you are. Make you feel good?
Don't worry about the NFL games this year and what national anthem will be played, because at the rate the protesters are spreading covid19, there won't be any fans in the stands to sing or stand to any music. And the channel selector can easily be changed to the old Black and White movie channel without standing up. Miserable people can change the written history of our country, words might be eliminated, but you will still be miserable people.

fdpaq0580 07-04-2020 09:42 AM

Good grief!
 
After eight pages of this, my take away is that the the two major points of contention are, referring to this song/poem as the "black national anthem", and that it is going to be played along with the U. S. National Anthem.
Some see it as pandering to one minority and by doing so make it political and divisive. The statement by Professor Timothy Askew was shown in an earlier post and he thinks it is, and I agree.
The lyrics to the song, imho, are lovely and, this just my opinion, make a great hymn for church. As to what is appropriate at a nationally televised sporting event, I believe that any focusing on one group, racial, political, religion, etc, is not appropriate.
Having an opening prayer, for example, would be problematic since there are many different beliefs. Any faith or lack of could feel excluded and interpret it as blatant prejudice. How divisive!
Sporting events are for entertainment and, imho, not a proper or productive venue to express or engage in politics. Sports are and have been one of the venues that allow people of all backgrounds to come together and cheer together, eat and drink together and share in a common experience. Let's keep it that way for all our sakes, for to do otherwise will have a negative effect. There is enough negativity, and it needs to end.

Stay well. Stay safe. Peace!

ithos 07-04-2020 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1797148)
Again the BLM movement is supported by most Americans including most white Americans. For those who believe that white people agreeing with BLM is a rarity, your information bubble is too small.

So I don't see many people, although there were some, who objected because this honored one of many segments of American society, the objection was because it honored Black Americans. The poem reflects on how far we have come and how much suffering there has been but with perseverance and the help of God the future is bright. Obviously there still is work to be done.

Please take some time and research the background of BLM the organization.

We are anti-capitalist:
We believe and understand that Black people will never achieve liberation under the current global racialized capitalist system.

ABOUT US – M4BL
Movement for Black Lives - Wikipedia


They are a radical leftwing extremist group who don't give a damn about improving the lives of blacks or any other group. They are simply opportunists who believe the ends justify the means. And the ends is an overthrow of our Constitutional Republic.

And if Republicans are so racists why do so many of them support stopping abortion which kills a much higher percentage of black babies.

over 44 million abortions since the 1973 Roe vs Wade Supreme Court ruling, 19 million black babies were aborted. African Americans are just under 13 percent of United States population.

Abortion: The overlooked tragedy for black Americans – Arizona Capitol Times

Heyitsrick 07-04-2020 09:55 AM

A professor of history at Stevenson University has done quite a bit of research into Key's poem, trying to ascertain what Key meant by the controversial third stanza's slave and hireling wording.

What he found was other mentions of these terms back in run up to the War of 1812 - including in a poem written a full year before Key's:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Glenn Johnston

If you search Newspapers.com for "hireling and slave" your initial results will uncover current articles discussing our problems with Key's words in the National Anthem. However, if you narrow the search to Key's time, 1780-1816, you will see that slave and hireling were each used in a pejorative fashion to describe free people carrying out the wishes of a more powerful person. This is similar to China's Communist newspapers calling our South Vietnamese allies "running dogs" or "puppets" during the Vietnam War.

As proof that all Key did in his third verse was employ a rhetorical device, I submit the following evidence. In 1813, in the midst of the War of 1812, and a full year before Key penned the "Defence of Fort M'Henry," another poet used the words hirelings and slaves in a poem to describe the King's soldiers during the Revolutionary War at the Battle of Bunker Hill. In the poem "The Death of Warren" from the Trenton True American, published on 15 May 1813 in the Lancaster Intelligencer and Journal, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, the poet describes:

",,,,,When tyrant George assailed our shore,

and thousands of his slaves sent o'er,

With power to kill, inflict each ill.

Our towns to burn that we might mourn.

And make us to his sway return.

A sway that was slavish and foreign."

The poet continues in a later verse:

"Now How(e), who had the chief command

of George's troops within our land,

Addresses thus his hireling band:

'To stand us they are not able.

Behold (he cries) the motly host,

And quickly drive them from their post;

And as you live no quarter give,

Mind no prayer, not one spare;

For vengeance we will have that's rare.

And destroy every Yankee Rebel.'

...

Based on the widespread use of hireling and slave as a an epithet in the US press during the lead-up to and waging of the War of 1812, I believe it is entirely credible that Key used hireling and slave in that fashion. His poem was not meant to arouse anything but patriotic fervor through recognition of Baltimore's defense. The narrative of the US David defeating the British military Goliath was central to his theme, not communicating his beliefs about chattel slavery as practiced in the Chesapeake region. With Bible societies on the rise in the US as well as a rising tide of abolitionism, such a display of racism would have caused issues both in the North as well as Baltimore. The third largest city in the US at the time with the largest population of free Blacks in the US, free Blacks--and enslaved Blacks-- who had just helped save the city, Baltimore was in no mood for racist rhetoric the day after its major victory.

...

At the outset of this piece I suggested that the solutions found by the humanities to many problems are those that just seem real and authentic. The solutions that spin a narrative that best seem to fit the facts and context as known at that time are what we seek in the humanities. Change the context or the known facts and you may decide on a different explanation and solution for the problem. In this rather tedious piece I have presented the evidence as I know it and tried to place it within the context of which I am aware. Based on that, I believe Key simply used the phrase "hireling and slave" as a rhetorical device in his poem Defence of Fort M'Henry in order to describe the British Army and Navy repelled from Baltimore's door in September 1814. In the true spirit of the humanities, however, if you provide me evidence that changes what I know, I just might change my mind.


Baywayric 07-04-2020 09:57 AM

This does it for me, every time!

Air Force Teams Up with Lee Greenwood for Patriotic God Bless the USA Performance | Military.com

Happy 4th!

TexaninVA 07-04-2020 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithos (Post 1797583)
Please take some time and research the background of BLM the organization.

We are anti-capitalist:
We believe and understand that Black people will never achieve liberation under the current global racialized capitalist system.

ABOUT US – M4BL
Movement for Black Lives - Wikipedia


They are a radical leftwing extremist group who don't give a damn about improving the lives of blacks or any other group. They are simply opportunists who believe the ends justify the means. And the ends is an overthrow of our Constitutional Republic.

[/url]

Excellent post.

It's actually rather amazing how uniformed "Champagne Bolsheviks" are with respect to BLM. Most are guilt ridden white liberals who say they support BLM but they can't make a coherent case for why they do ... although they can be quick to call you a racist if you disagree.

There are only two explanations I can think of.

They either a) have zero knowledge about what BLM actually advocates except that makes them feel good, or b) they support what's advocated but are not yet comfortable coming out and saying so in public.

Am I missing a third explanation maybe?


...

barbnick 07-04-2020 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John41 (Post 1796693)
Next we will be saluting a BLM flag and singing Kumbayah. The NFL players today are overpaid prima donnas not fit to walk in the cleats of the players of the past. As for the NBA I’ll take Bob Cousy any day.

Wow!!

aa1949a 07-04-2020 11:37 AM

let the NFL and NBA pay for all the damage the blm did with their looting. Some were peaceful.

Byte1 07-04-2020 12:00 PM

Best rendition of the National Anthem

YouTube

Snowprint 07-04-2020 12:01 PM

Be thankful today!
 
It’s great to know we are free to mock the national anthem or burn the flag without fear of imprisonment here in America. That’s not true everywhere. China, for example, locks people up for protesting the totalitarian regime. There are those who want to emulate China in positions of power here. Don’t allow wanna be dictators destroy what makes America great!

TexaninVA 07-04-2020 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1797676)
Best rendition of the National Anthem

YouTube

Best ever indeed! And very creative. :bigbow:

I think I should try some Black Rifle coffee ...

TexaninVA 07-04-2020 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowprint (Post 1797677)
It’s great to know we are free to mock the national anthem or burn the flag without fear of imprisonment here in America. That’s not true everywhere. China, for example, locks people up for protesting the totalitarian regime. There are those who want to emulate China in positions of power here. Don’t allow wanna be dictators destroy what makes America great!

People can protest peacefully all they want .... but if someone riots or burns or defaces statues etc, they should go to jail -- that includes burning the American flag.

If someone wants to burn a flag, I recommend the Chinese or Russian flag. Maybe the Iranian flag. Go for it.

Fredman 07-04-2020 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Page (Post 1796732)
The NFL could be making a big mistake!
What happens when some fans refuse to stand for the Black National Anthem?

In any case. HAPPY 4th!
Enjoy your independence....while we still have it.

I won’t stand

TexaninVA 07-04-2020 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fredman (Post 1797699)
I won’t stand

Me neither ... in fact, since it's so fashionable these days, perfect time to take a knee in protest.

...

Snowprint 07-04-2020 02:34 PM

Freedom means the right to do things that some, even the majority, may not approve of
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexaninVA (Post 1797681)
People can protest peacefully all they want .... but if someone riots or burns or defaces statues etc, they should go to jail -- that includes burning the American flag.

If someone wants to burn a flag, I recommend the Chinese or Russian flag. Maybe the Iranian flag. Go for it.

It’s your right, as Judge Antonin Scalia wrote in the Supreme Court decision that allows flag burningI’m not a fan of flag burning, but I am proud to live in a country that says it’s your constitutional to do so.
As the Beatles said...”But if you go around carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain’t going make it with anyone anyhow...”

Byte1 07-04-2020 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexaninVA (Post 1797750)
I think God Bless America is the perfect warmup to the Star Spangled Banner. Excellent idea.

Perhaps "God Bless America" would be a good Black National Anthem."

I still see our American National Anthem as being EVERYONE's song. I really feel that someone is insulting Blacks by telling them that they get to have their own Black National Anthem. Kind of hard to expect anyone of any other color being asked to stand for a segregated Anthem. Next thing you know, folks will start asking for ALL Black schools. I am embarrassed for the NFL players to have to go out on the field knowing that Black players are supposed to smile as they are condescended to by rich white owners that do not consider them inclusive to the National Anthem. Guess what goes around, comes around as they say. They can thank CK for his making Sports a political statement.

TomPerrett 07-04-2020 04:09 PM

Too many people are to concerned about things that haven’t happened.
If you take care of the present And stop the fear of what the future might bring you would be to busy to feat what ain’t there. Remember the boogie man, he wasent real either.

TexaninVA 07-04-2020 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomPerrett (Post 1797780)
Too many people are to concerned about things that haven’t happened.
If you take care of the present And stop the fear of what the future might bring you would be to busy to feat what ain’t there. Remember the boogie man, he wasent real either.

I think that was intended to be profound ... ignore problems and retreat into bliss. Where's my yellow stickie pad so I can make a note??

Jimmy Lee 07-04-2020 05:54 PM

Marxist indroctrination
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Choro&Swing (Post 1796768)
I’m laughing. Yesterday I saw a meme on Facebook complaining that NASCAR would no longer begin each race with the national anthem and a prayer. I love the TV series “Friday Night Lights”. In that show, though, the team had a group prayer in the locker room before every game, led by the coach. I remember the scene in the great World War II movie “Catch—22” where Buck Henry asks the “padre” to offer “a nice snappy prayer” before a bombing mission, and when it drags on, Colonel Cathcart butts in and asks God for nice tight bombing patterns that will destroy the enemy. I remember the old Bob Dylan song “With God on Or Side.”

The entertainment industry was heavily inserting anti-religious jokes and memes into their movies and music in the 1960's and 70's. Religion is like kryptonite for Marxists so they've been using their influence in pop culture to denigrate it. As time goes on it's become evermore in-you-face until today we have our churches empty and our cities on fire.

tophcfa 07-04-2020 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomPerrett (Post 1797780)
Too many people are to concerned about things that haven’t happened.
If you take care of the present And stop the fear of what the future might bring you would be to busy to feat what ain’t there. Remember the boogie man, he wasent real either.

The problem with that theory is that many of us have children and grandchildren, so yes, we are very concerned about what the future will bring.


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