[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by JMintzer

You neglected to mention the Union States (Delaware & Kentucky) that were not covered by the Proclamation, and where Slavery remained legal until the 13th Amendment was ratified, almost TWO years later...

I didn't neglect to mention it. I was referring to the reason for this particular holiday known as Juneteenth. Juneteenth has nothing to do with the 13th Amendment, or Kentucky, or Delaware. It has to do with slaves in a state where slavery was technically abolished, being informed that slavery was abolished, 1.5 years after the president of the United States at the time proclaimed that it had been abolished.

It is a reminder that freedom prevails, whether you like it or not, and that free people WILL be informed about their freedom, whether you like it or not.

If you have a problem with that, then you are invited to live in a country where slaves are never told that they are free.

[golfing eagles]

I don't care for the name. Should we refer to 911 as Sepleventh?? Or independence Day as the Jurth???? Regardless, I would prefer that this holiday be the date on which the Emancipation Proclamation was signed. Due to the slow communications of the day, slaves were "freed" on different days throughout the US. In some ways their descendants aren't even free today. But the common date would be when Lincoln signed the EP, not when a small city in Texas got the word. (yes, I realize the news was deliberately withheld)

[Stu from NYC]

Why can we not be happy that slavery was ended without adding another national holiday to the mix?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Why can we not be happy that slavery was ended without adding another national holiday to the mix?

Maybe. But you know there will be posts that follow that suggest we should be happy Christ was born without celebrating Christmas and that we're happy the pilgrims survived their first winter and that the Declaration of Independence was signed without celebrating their respective holidays.

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I didn't neglect to mention it. I was referring to the reason for this particular holiday known as Juneteenth. Juneteenth has nothing to do with the 13th Amendment, or Kentucky, or Delaware. It has to do with slaves in a state where slavery was technically abolished, being informed that slavery was abolished, 1.5 years after the president of the United States at the time proclaimed that it had been abolished.

It is a reminder that freedom prevails, whether you like it or not, and that free people WILL be informed about their freedom, whether you like it or not.

If you have a problem with that, then you are invited to live in a country where slaves are never told that they are free.

Freedom prevails, unless you were a slave in Delaware or Kentucky...

Then, the Emancipation Proclamation meant bupkiss...

And please show me where I said or implied I was unhappy with anyone's freedom...

Or was that just a snarky insult aimed at me?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Why can we not be happy that slavery was ended without adding another national holiday to the mix?

Why can't Christians be happy some brown-skinned middle-eastern was born on the other side of the planet, and some Europeans on the other side of the planet turned him into a white guy with blue eyes and drew pictures of him hanging from a cross, and not add another national holiday into the mix?

Why can't Americans be happy that the settlers murdered the people who already lived here, brought them disease, raped their women, and then forced them to live on reservations, without it being a national holiday?

Why can't Americans be happy that Christopher Columbus did NOT come to what we know as the USA, he never set foot here, but that he DID spread disease to the Caribbean, which then spread to the North American continent. Why can't we not have a holiday to celebrate that?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Maybe. But you know there will be posts that follow that suggest we should be happy Christ was born without celebrating Christmas and that we're happy the pilgrims survived their first winter and that the Declaration of Independence was signed without celebrating their respective holidays.

Exactly. What is it about Christmas that makes it so uniquely and profoundly American that it must be a national holiday? And what is it about "thanksgiving" that should make us "proud" to be Americans deserving of a national holiday commemorating it? And what is it about Columbus, who never actually set foot on this continent, that makes him deserve his own national holiday in this country?

Answer: nothing. Not a darned thing. And yet, they get their national holidays. I see no problem with Juneteenth.

[Battlebasset]

I still work. Our company gave it to us as a "floating" holiday, meaning we could take it when we wanted. So the company remained open on June 19, and I got an extra day off. Win win, in my book.

[mtdjed]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I don't care for the name. Should we refer to 911 as Sepleventh?? Or independence Day as the Jurth???? Regardless, I would prefer that this holiday be the date on which the Emancipation Proclamation was signed. Due to the slow communications of the day, slaves were "freed" on different days throughout the US. In some ways their descendants aren't even free today. But the common date would be when Lincoln signed the EP, not when a small city in Texas got the word. (yes, I realize the news was deliberately withheld)

Slow communications were not a problem at that time, as Telegraph existed allowing for almost instant communication to central offices. EP did not abolish slavery. It was a step to free slaves in certain areas. Most of these areas were not under Union control and had to wait until they were under Union Control before actions to Free Slaves could be accomplished effectively. I saw one description that stated that the Unions issuance of the EP could be compared to Hitler telling opponents the lay down their arms and surrender.

Amendment 13 was the attempt to abolish Slavery (in almost all cases) in the USA.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by mtdjed

Slow communications were not a problem at that time, as Telegraph existed allowing for almost instant communication to central offices. EP did not abolish slavery. It was a step to free slaves in certain areas. Most of these areas were not under Union control and had to wait until they were under Union Control before actions to Free Slaves could be accomplished effectively. I saw one description that stated that the Unions issuance of the EP could be compared to Hitler telling opponents the lay down their arms and surrender.

Amendment 13 was the attempt to abolish Slavery (in almost all cases) in the USA.

Not quite the way I understand it.

In 1862 Lincoln threatened/promised the Confederate States that if they did not rejoin the Union he would free their slaves at the beginning of 1863. The Emancipation Proclamation does just that - frees the slaves in the areas that were still fighting against the Union.

Obviously, the states that had decided to continue the conflict were not about to abide by the Proclamation voluntarily. Therefore, it was necessary for those states to come under Union control before the Proclamation could be enforced. In June, 1865 the Union army entered Texas to enforce the laws of the Union including the Emancipation Proclamation.

Slaves were freed in most of the Confederate States by the Emancipation Proclamation, the last being Texas in June, 1865. Slaves were freed in all remaining states and counties by the 13th amendment.

At least that's the way I read the history.

[Lindsyburnsy]

Well, let's try Christmas for starters.

[Bay Kid]

Only a holiday if you work for the govern, banks or stock market. Everybody else didn't get paid not to work.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Why can we not be happy that slavery was ended without adding another national holiday to the mix?

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Maybe. But you know there will be posts that follow that suggest we should be happy Christ was born without celebrating Christmas and that we're happy the pilgrims survived their first winter and that the Declaration of Independence was signed without celebrating their respective holidays.

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Exactly. What is it about Christmas that makes it so uniquely and profoundly American that it must be a national holiday? And what is it about "thanksgiving" that should make us "proud" to be Americans deserving of a national holiday commemorating it? And what is it about Columbus, who never actually set foot on this continent, that makes him deserve his own national holiday in this country?

Answer: nothing. Not a darned thing. And yet, they get their national holidays. I see no problem with Juneteenth.

Prediction made and fulfilled. Not hard to be a psychic on this site

[JMintzer]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Prediction made and fulfilled. Not hard to be a psychic on this site

Stevie Wonder could have seen that coming...

[Taltarzac725]

The Great Courses

America's Long Struggle against Slavery
Richard Bell, PhD Professor, University of Maryland, College Park

This might be worth a look.

Many historical views of American slavery only look at small parts of this enormous struggle, focusing on single events or a small segment of famous figures. But to understand America—to fully understand our country today—one must examine the whole history of struggle, oppression, and resistance, not only by famous figures like Abraham Lincoln and Harriet Tubman, but also by an enormous and often unfamiliar cast of characters, including:

The “saltwater slaves” who revolted aboard slave ships and chose suicide over an unknown future;
Phibbah Thistlewood, a woman who made the best of her situation to bridge the gap between her master and her fellow slaves;
David Walker, Nat Turner, and other figures calling for immediate, urgent action; and
Northern Quakers, pamphleteers, preachers, and school teachers who changed the political tide.