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-   -   Kim Potter Guilty (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/current-events-news-541/kim-potter-guilty-327532/)

jdulej 12-26-2021 07:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat#79Luv (Post 2042948)
I personally knew Officer Potter. I was a dispatcher for the Hennepin County Sheriffs Office for 23 years of my 36 year career as a dispatcher. We dispatched for the city that Officer Potter worked for. She was a fine upstanding officer. She made a fatal error that day. Police officers are humans, not robots. Just like a doctor is a human and not a machine. If the doctor accidentally kills someone, she/he is not charged for manslaughter, but simply goes on living their life. If Mr. Wright would have complied, he would be here today living his life.

Obviously this was not an easy decision for the jury, but I do believe other incidents that have been happening influenced their verdict. I believe they were afraid of what would happen to the twin cities and the country if they did not find her guilty.

This was a very sad day for Law Enforcement. No one will want the job of a police officer again. It is a hard job and if you have no backing who will choose to work in that field. We will end up being policed by the military. Won’t that be interesting for career criminals.

Like I said earlier, I was a dispatcher for 36 years. Years ago for every police officer position that was open 100’s of candidates would apply. Six years ago, when I retired, they were lucky if they could get a handful of men and women to apply for the job and to try to find a good one from a handful was not always easy. When something like this happens to one of the good ones, why would anyone choose this profession. I would bet you would steer your son/daughter, grandson/granddaughter into another profession these days. Just ponder what our country will be like down the road when no one goes into the law enforcement field. I, for one, hope I am no longer alive when it comes to that.
Maybe it's time to rethink the role of the police and what type of person would make a good police officer. I know BLM and Defund The Police are triggers that get many here riled up, but my understanding of their goal was just that (for the majority, there are fringes that go too far)
If you cannot find qualified people to hire, possibly you are the problem. If you can't keep the peace even with a patrol car on every corner (Chicago?) perhaps it's time to try another approach?
The so-called War on Drugs was a good example of what not to do. Billions upon billions wasted with zero results - anyone think our drug problems have gotten better? We have jails full of low level dealers costing 50-60K/year to house, and they are immediately replaced on the street with no impact at all.
IMO, the first step is to admit that the current approach is not working, and new solutions are needed - not just throw more money at it.

Two Bills 12-26-2021 08:05 AM
I have no idea what is the solution to what seems a lack of respect that modern society has for any figure of authority.
Where I grew up in UK as a kid, police officers were on foot, knew the people on their beat, and most of all, they knew all the local villains and tearaways.
HQ. then decided to reduce numbers, put the coppers in cars, and from that day, policing went downhill.
Put the local cops back on foot, so they can interact with their communities once again.
Keep the cars for the rural areas, and getting extra support in emergecies.
That would be my solution.

PugMom 12-26-2021 08:11 AM
:bigbow::pray: correct again!

jimbomaybe 12-26-2021 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdulej (Post 2042972)
Maybe it's time to rethink the role of the police and what type of person would make a good police officer. I know BLM and Defund The Police are triggers that get many here riled up, but my understanding of their goal was just that (for the majority, there are fringes that go too far)
If you cannot find qualified people to hire, possibly you are the problem. If you can't keep the peace even with a patrol car on every corner (Chicago?) perhaps it's time to try another approach?
The so-called War on Drugs was a good example of what not to do. Billions upon billions wasted with zero results - anyone think our drug problems have gotten better? We have jails full of low level dealers costing 50-60K/year to house, and they are immediately replaced on the street with no impact at all.
IMO, the first step is to admit that the current approach is not working, and new solutions are needed - not just throw more money at it.
Every day it seems we see new headlines ,videos of just how well the new progressive programs and ideas are working, defunding the police in areas devastated by crime, a no brainer , why have we never thought of this before, Restorative Justice, no bond . low bond back out on the street, their not criminals just misunderstood and haven't talked to their therapist yet a few more thefts, assaults, a felony it not the point, keeping them locked up isn't good for them

spd2918 12-26-2021 09:08 AM
This incident was the result of a combative suspect and an officer that made a mistake. It's as simple as that. There are 1,000s of police contacts every day that end with injuries to no one. Police shootings / deaths of suspects are still very rare.

The problem is a culture that teaches the police are all racists that seek to murder people. It's completely insane. Such teachings lead to more resistance and more injuries and deaths. Don't want the police to use force? Don't resist.

Consider the motivations of the BLM leaders. Consider their clearly stated political goals. I cant post them here, but you can look them up.

44Apple 12-26-2021 09:37 AM
Next time I am pulled over for speeding, I'm going to tell the cop I made a mistake, please don't give me a ticket. It wasn't my fault, I thought I was doing 35, not 70.

jdulej 12-26-2021 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2042983)
Every day it seems we see new headlines ,videos of just how well the new progressive programs and ideas are working, defunding the police in areas devastated by crime, a no brainer , why have we never thought of this before, Restorative Justice, no bond . low bond back out on the street, their not criminals just misunderstood and haven't talked to their therapist yet a few more thefts, assaults, a felony it not the point, keeping them locked up isn't good for them
As is true with all really difficult problems, the early, not well though out solutions don't work very well and tend to end up being ridiculed. By their nature, the embedded infrastructures are against change, as they see it as a threat. So law enforcement pushes back, the legal system pushes back, even the criminals push back. They are all depending on the current state of things for their livelihoods - why change a good thing.

Caymus 12-26-2021 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdulej (Post 2043010)
As is true with all really difficult problems, the early, not well though out solutions don't work very well and tend to end up being ridiculed. By their nature, the embedded infrastructures are against change, as they see it as a threat. So law enforcement pushes back, the legal system pushes back, even the criminals push back. They are all depending on the current state of things for their livelihoods - why change a good thing.

Is this a good thing?

Woman armed with a PICKAXE seen casually shoplifting at a Rite Aid in crime-ridden Los Angeles | Daily Mail Online

ElDiabloJoe 12-26-2021 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdulej (Post 2042972)
Maybe it's time to rethink the role of the police and what type of person would make a good police officer. I know BLM and Defund The Police are triggers that get many here riled up, but my understanding of their goal was just that (for the majority, there are fringes that go too far)
If you cannot find qualified people to hire, possibly you are the problem. If you can't keep the peace even with a patrol car on every corner (Chicago?) perhaps it's time to try another approach?
The so-called War on Drugs was a good example of what not to do. Billions upon billions wasted with zero results - anyone think our drug problems have gotten better? We have jails full of low level dealers costing 50-60K/year to house, and they are immediately replaced on the street with no impact at all.
IMO, the first step is to admit that the current approach is not working, and new solutions are needed - not just throw more money at it.
Maybe, just maybe, what we need is a society based on a strong nuclear family with an enforced moral code (church upbringing and adherence to legislated laws), and a society unified with what is "right" and what is "wrong."

Maybe.

But what do I know? I was a grunt that pushed a hoop in a major city for 30 years, so probably nothing.

Cyndee@twc.com 12-26-2021 10:10 AM
Everyone learns to drive a car but there still accidents. In the heat of the fight
 
[she had an accident . Lets see who would get in a car with a crazed man and try to stop him from driving away and running over other officers. She was in he heat of battle and tried to stop him

nn0wheremann 12-26-2021 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2042437)
I could not have voted to convict. She was doing her job, and made a mistake. Surgeons make mistakes that result in death, but they never go to jail.
Agreed, at least with the more serious charge, but I was not in the jury box.

This has a bad smell about it, of vigilante politics, and likely will be found to be a miscarriage of justice.

Hopefully in sentencing the judge will put an end to this racist lynching-in-reverse.

It also calls into question why a traffic cop has to carry lethal force weapons. In almost thirty years on the job she never had cause to use the pistol issued to her. Upon learning of the outstanding warrant it might have been better to have had backup available to better secure the arrest environment. It also calls into question why a felony warrant had not been acted upon with more diligence and speed by the county sheriff whose duty is to enforce such a warrant. Asking a traffic copper to deal with felony warrant enforcement is a bit much.

jdulej 12-26-2021 10:19 AM
Like I said in my post, early attempts to solve a really huge problem usually don't work very well. Should you just stop trying? Have the cops confront this person and either kill them or suck them into the existing criminal justice system, costing taxpayers thousands or hundreds of thousands with no chance of any sort of rehabilitation.
Crime is still crime and should be dealt with in a way the matches the punishment to the severity of the crime. Personally, I think a family that creates and pushes a drug that enslaves millions deserves a stiffer penalty than some kid on a corner selling crack to his friends, but that does not fit with the current model of "justice".

Ksfirefighter 12-26-2021 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shbullet (Post 2042455)
You sound like a cross eyed lawyer!
One appears to be smug!

YeOldeCurmudgeon 12-26-2021 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caymus (Post 2042806)
Some? So in your expert opinion is it greater than 5%?
Having worked in the newspaper business covering the police beat -- at least in my day -- the bad apples are in the overwhelming minority. But this was in upstate NY 30 years ago. I hazard to guess what it would be like today or in the redneck South.

fdpaq0580 12-26-2021 10:44 AM
I think you missed the point.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44Apple (Post 2043007)
Next time I am pulled over for speeding, I'm going to tell the cop I made a mistake, please don't give me a ticket. It wasn't my fault, I thought I was doing 35, not 70.
In your scenario, you place yourself in the position of the criminal. If you don't become combative or try to flee you may get off with a warning to be more careful. But if you do become combative or try to flee and become a threat to others, bad things can happen and (in my opinion) it all will be your fault for not obeying the officer.
If, however, you are attempting to portray the officer who made the mistake, then imho your scenario is invalid.

JMintzer 12-26-2021 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44Apple (Post 2043007)
Next time I am pulled over for speeding, I'm going to tell the cop I made a mistake, please don't give me a ticket. It wasn't my fault, I thought I was doing 35, not 70.
Brilliant analogy... [/sarcasm]

JMintzer 12-26-2021 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YeOldeCurmudgeon (Post 2043027)
Having worked in the newspaper business covering the police beat -- at least in my day -- the bad apples are in the overwhelming minority. But this was in upstate NY 30 years ago. I hazard to guess what it would be like today or in the redneck South.
Broad Brush much?

skarra 12-26-2021 12:15 PM
It boils down to a law was broken, and a jury of her peers got to consider all the evidence before rendering their verdict. I don’t think anyone can dispute that is the way it should work.

Maybe the laws could be changed - you could certainly debate that. But at least in this case it appears that the system has worked the way it was designed.

The verdict seems sound. I hope some leniency is given during sentencing because I don’t think it was intentional, just negligent.

Byte1 12-26-2021 01:11 PM
So, a police officer with over 30 years of honorable service makes a mistake and a scumbag is eradicated? Sorry, but I don't see the problem. Perhaps we need more "mistakes" happening in this country to set things back on even keel? Ok, the most she should have seen is a letter in her personnel file and then perhaps a promotion. For those that say a law was broken, the only law broken was the perp resisting arrest.
If you think this is a racial thing, perhaps next time you get pulled over for a traffic citation, try refusing to give the officer your documentation and then call him a "PIG." Then when he tells you to get out of the vehicle, tell him to go to h3ll. Let's see if being white gives you the ability to keep the handcuffs off of you. These law enforcement officers are doing an outstanding job, trying to keep the scumbags from your homes. Perhaps if the judges and the cry baby media would do their jobs, we would not have half the problems we have today.
Chalk off another scumbag eliminated from polluting our country. Sorry for the sacrifice of a decent police officer.

fdpaq0580 12-26-2021 03:31 PM
Hmm
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 2043079)
So, a police officer with over 30 years of honorable service makes a mistake and a scumbag is eradicated? Sorry, but I don't see the problem. Perhaps we need more "mistakes" happening in this country to set things back on even keel? Ok, the most she should have seen is a letter in her personnel file and then perhaps a promotion. For those that say a law was broken, the only law broken was the perp resisting arrest.
If you think this is a racial thing, perhaps next time you get pulled over for a traffic citation, try refusing to give the officer your documentation and then call him a "PIG." Then when he tells you to get out of the vehicle, tell him to go to h3ll. Let's see if being white gives you the ability to keep the handcuffs off of you. These law enforcement officers are doing an outstanding job, trying to keep the scumbags from your homes. Perhaps if the judges and the cry baby media would do their jobs, we would not have half the problems we have today.
Chalk off another scumbag eliminated from polluting our country. Sorry for the sacrifice of a decent police officer.
Bet you liked the movie "Judge Dredd" with Sly Stallone. Street judges who were police, judge, jury, and dispenser (executioner) all in one.

JMintzer 12-26-2021 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2043105)
Bet you liked the movie "Judge Dredd" with Sly Stallone. Street judges who were police, judge, jury, and dispenser (executioner) all in one.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/..._Seashells.jpg

jimbomaybe 12-26-2021 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdulej (Post 2043010)
As is true with all really difficult problems, the early, not well though out solutions don't work very well and tend to end up being ridiculed. By their nature, the embedded infrastructures are against change, as they see it as a threat. So law enforcement pushes back, the legal system pushes back, even the criminals push back. They are all depending on the current state of things for their livelihoods - why change a good thing.
HUH? The screw ball "solutions" were being ridiculed before they were first implemented , the obvious consequences pointed out, put into practice by that imbedded infrastructure called elected officials, the police have the function of enforcement of the laws made by other bodies, this is not push back, its easy to disagree with politicians, the legislature and how some police enforce the law but still they are all part of what you need to have a functioning society, the criminal element and anyone so inclined as demonstrated has been greatly encouraged , without the rule of law and to whatever extent there is no functioning society, these solutions been trending for some time, the next "solution" being only the cause for an expanding problem

,

jimbomaybe 12-26-2021 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skarra (Post 2043067)
It boils down to a law was broken, and a jury of her peers got to consider all the evidence before rendering their verdict. I don’t think anyone can dispute that is the way it should work.

Maybe the laws could be changed - you could certainly debate that. But at least in this case it appears that the system has worked the way it was designed.

The verdict seems sound. I hope some leniency is given during sentencing because I don’t think it was intentional, just negligent.
So you would be just as content if she was exonerated ?

Stu from NYC 12-26-2021 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2043148)
So you would be just as content if she was exonerated ?
She should not be exonerated but would not be sorry if she got a very light sentence or perhaps probation.

Obviously she has lost her career and we are down one crook who if he followed the demands of the police would still be alive.

Wonder if anyone will name a street after him?

Bandb875 12-27-2021 06:15 AM
Medical malpractice seems to never make the news. It must be stressful when a doctor operates but at least the doctor doesn't have to worry about losing his own life in the situation. Seems we are holding police officers to a much higher standard.

mydavid 12-27-2021 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2042437)
I could not have voted to convict. She was doing her job, and made a mistake. Surgeons make mistakes that result in death, but they never go to jail.
I thank if she was a rookie cop things might have turned out differently, but a 27 year pro and the gun on one side of her belt and the teaser on the other.

jdulej 12-27-2021 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2043147)
HUH? The screw ball "solutions" were being ridiculed before they were first implemented , the obvious consequences pointed out, put into practice by that imbedded infrastructure called elected officials, the police have the function of enforcement of the laws made by other bodies, this is not push back, its easy to disagree with politicians, the legislature and how some police enforce the law but still they are all part of what you need to have a functioning society, the criminal element and anyone so inclined as demonstrated has been greatly encouraged , without the rule of law and to whatever extent there is no functioning society, these solutions been trending for some time, the next "solution" being only the cause for an expanding problem

,
So, you are complaining but not offering any suggestions other than "leave us alone - everything was just fine before iPhones and body cams came along".

skarra 12-27-2021 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbomaybe (Post 2043148)
So you would be just as content if she was exonerated ?

We are a nation of laws.

What we are not is a group of vigilantes. No room for that. Go somewhere else if you want that.

Sorry, that means no Judge Dredd allowed.

jimbomaybe 12-27-2021 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skarra (Post 2043216)
We are a nation of laws.

What we are not is a group of vigilantes. No room for that. Go somewhere else if you want that.

Sorry, that means no Judge Dredd allowed.
The whole point of this discussion is opinions on the verdict, the how ,the why, where have I suggested any vigilantism ? How can you construe that from my posts?

Wyseguy 12-27-2021 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdulej (Post 2042591)
The way I understand things, the fact that she was yelling "Taser" over and over indicated that she had determined that lethal force was not warranted. Then she shot him with a gun by mistake. Pretty clearly a screw-up which caused the death of an innocent (until proven guilty of something) USA citizen (not that that should make a difference). In most states, doing something like that gets you jail time. I suspect that she will get less than half the time she could get, but it will be years,
Agree, had she not yelled taser, and pulled her weapon and shot him she would probably get off. There were police around the car that he was driving away in. She could have said she was protecting the lives of other police. Regarding those who mentioned people should stop resisting; there are many videos of police beating non resisting citizens while yelling "Stop resisting"

valuemkt 12-27-2021 09:44 AM
white racists
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherylncliff (Post 2043209)
Interesting to see how many white racists live in The Villages.
Yea, you probably wont like it here. We have laws and prisons and.. amazingly.. low crime.. Buy a house in Seattle or Minneapolis .. or go back to California .. Smile when your house gets burglarized..

Stu from NYC 12-27-2021 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherylncliff (Post 2043209)
Interesting to see how many white racists live in The Villages.
How does that make him a racist? These days cannot have an honest disagreement on anything relating to blacks without being called nasty names.

Why does nobody seem to care about all the black and black murders going on? Or children growing up in a one parent home?

JMintzer 12-27-2021 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherylncliff (Post 2043209)
Interesting to see how many white racists live in The Villages.
Eclipsed only by the judgmental ones...

Byte1 12-27-2021 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2043105)
Bet you liked the movie "Judge Dredd" with Sly Stallone. Street judges who were police, judge, jury, and dispenser (executioner) all in one.
So far, it seems that the police are the ONLY ones doing their jobs. Judges=NO!, Jury=too afraid. Prosecutor= Let's make a deal (and how will it look on TV) and the Defense Attny=how much can I make with the least amount of work.
The police are about the lowest paid public servants for what they have to endure and the dangerous work they survive every day.
Judge Dredd is a fictional, sci fy movie. Personally, I enjoy The Walking Dead. If you want something to really relate to that is more current, you should have asked me if I liked Yellowstone. I do.

JMintzer 12-27-2021 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2043275)
There are many, and the extent of the racism varies widely. Some are just the usual mundane, not harmful, not intentional prejudice that most white people have:

If you're in an upscale building in the city and get on the elevator, and three black men wearing jeans and hoodies get on the next floor and it's just you and those three black men in jeans and hoodies, and you're a white female, you will -probably- feel some measure of discomfort.

Why? Because they are "other" and you are in the minority.

I think that's the worst of "most" people I've met here.

But there are some who will blame things on blacks - because they truly believe it's the fact that they're black that is causing whatever the ills of society are. They are more bold here, because they are with "their own kind" for the most part. That ugly underside definitely exists, and it's definitely ugly. Thankfully, most folks know to keep that crap to themselves when they're in the company of others.

But you definitely hear some nasty stuff at the country club bar from time to time.
Yeah, it's most certainly the "white racists"...

JUAN WILLIAMS: I Get Nervous Walking Past Young Black Men

Byte1 12-27-2021 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skarra (Post 2043216)
We are a nation of laws.

What we are not is a group of vigilantes. No room for that. Go somewhere else if you want that.

Sorry, that means no Judge Dredd allowed.
Apparently, you do not want any law enforcement either. Judge Dredd is fictional. The problem on here is that most are commenting with absolutely NO experience in law enforcement and have no idea what or how the job is conducted. Most watch Tv and think that Hollywood actors and fiction is how the job is done. Sorry, but most police work is none of what you see on TV. But, I know that none of the folks commenting on here would ever make a serious mistake. Why? Because they would never have a job where a mistake would be serious. I say that precluding the doctors on here that also have a job where a mistake can be serious.

jimbomaybe 12-27-2021 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdulej (Post 2043204)
So, you are complaining but not offering any suggestions other than "leave us alone - everything was just fine before iPhones and body cams came along".
My post was more of an observation than complaint that the so called solutions are aggravating the problematic issues, "solutions" made with anger, guilt are nonproductive, demonstrated by events, building a better bridge to the future is in all our interests, so far all that has been done , the theory, is to bail out the river because no one knows how to build a better bridge, perhaps trite but supported by all statistics is the importance of the family structure, to what ever extent, no family, no community, no civil society, who ever solves this well deserves to be honored

ElDiabloJoe 12-27-2021 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cherylncliff (Post 2043209)
Interesting to see how many white racists live in The Villages.
Yes. And usually on the left side of the spectrum, being offended for other people because they don't feel those people are bright enough to be offended for themselves. Champions of the under-represented so that they rely on them. A mentality of "They need help because they can't do it themselves."

As opposed to the "accountability and opportunity for EVERYone" mentality that exists on the right side.

YeOldeCurmudgeon 12-27-2021 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valuemkt (Post 2042883)
After duly pondering posting, at the advice of another poster, I join the posters who support law enforcement, and dismiss the WOKE posters who declare anything that goes towards law and order as racist. We have had enough statues torn down that celebrate our Founders and Forefathers. We do not need statues glorifying criminals. YES CRIMINALS. If you dont break the law, and you don;t resist arrest, you probably won't get killed. Black, White, Green or Purple. Who would want to be a law enforcement officer in NYC, California or Minnesota ? Or a business owner that could be a victim of Smash and Grab, $ 950 free shoplifting sprees etc ? For me, I look forward to the resurrection of the Pinkertons to protect property rights .. Until the legislatures grow a pair and go back to locking up criminals and stop vilifying police and other law enforcement, law abiding people and business owners need to enact any form of property protection. Those states and others have re-enacted the Wild Wild West, and soon the streets will have more bad guys lying on their backs dead in the street. If a carrot doesnt work, you have to use the stick ..
One thing that will help law enforcement is stricter gun control. The lax laws that allow anyone to get a gun is putting police on edge and causing them to use deadly force when it is not necessary.

retiredguy123 12-27-2021 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YeOldeCurmudgeon (Post 2043329)
One thing that will help law enforcement is stricter gun control. The lax laws that allow anyone to get a gun is putting police on edge and causing them to use deadly force when it is not necessary.
The problem is that you cannot have "stricter gun control" without limiting access to guns to law-abiding citizens who want to protect themselves. Those who want to use guns to commit crimes will not be deterred by stricter gun control measures.


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