[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by tvbound

"I guess we could have just evacuated like we did with the Kurds and left everyone behind."

THAT is a 'stain of shame,' that can never be washed away.

I agree with the contents of that post. The Kurds were good fighters and good allies and we left them to die. We keep doing stunts like that and Britain, Germany, and Australia will never trust us enough to be allies again.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Thank you, and to add to your excellent reply, we TOLD them we were getting out in May. That was the agreement we made. Then for whatever reason, we delayed the departure until now. That would emphasize your point of people hearing but not believing. I expect (I do not know) that the pull-out was delayed to better prepare for the exit.

And, also, I EXPECT/THINK the plan was to trust the Afgan military to hold for at least a few weeks or months so we could transfer security to them as we pulled out. What appears to have happened is the Taliban told the Afgan military, stand down and accept a bribe or die. And they chose to stand down. At least that is what appears to have happened. If so, yes, it was a serious mistake to trust them - I don't know what we did, if we did. It is just conjecture on my part.

I question why we did NOT wait until the WINTER to start to pull out. For some reason (?) the Taliban likes to go back home (to outlying areas, I suppose) for the winter and prefers to fight in the summer. It could be because the mountain passes and roads are not functional in WINTER? I do not KNOW for sure and would like some Afghanistan veteran to straighten me out on this score.

[dewilson58]

Congrats on the thread lasting more than 5 minutes!!!

[Toymeister]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The fact that Biden has been able to get thousands of our people and refugees out safely is pretty impressive. It could have gone more smoothly, sure. It also could've been disastrous. There were victims of this war throughout the last 20 years. Over 2400 US troops were already killed in Afghanistan during the conflict, before Biden was even elected President.

As someone who was there I can assure you that no President deserves credit for this evacuation. That goes to the Airmen and Soliders and the untold thousands of federal employees, logisticians, DoD contractors, not the president, not by a long shot.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Neils

No politics here

Wonder why we could maintain a very large base in Germany for about 75 years after we defeated the Nazi and help ensure a stable government. Same for Japan. Same for Manila.

But now a relatively small force left in Afghanistan that mostly operated air power and intelligence services for the remote locations from a secure base at Bagram was deemed urgent to close.

I question why our leaders are making these decisions.

Germany and Japan had an HONORABLE military and governments that SIGNED a SURRENDER agreement with the US. The Afghanistan Taliban were a loose coalition of about 15 stone-age tribes that never stopped fighting because they knew that eventually, we would leave. 20 years ago no top country wanted to stay there because Afghanistan had NOTHING worth trading for. Today, it is a little different because Afghanistan has lithium. But, it is in remote mountains and roads are a problem.

[John Mayes]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

congrats on the thread lasting more than 5 minutes!!!

lol!!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

I grew up in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Liberia - father was CIA. he sept his career in the Middle East. We (and other Americans) were evacuated form Pakistan, to Afghanistan and from Liberia to US.



In both cases, state department (it’s not the military, its the state department with the CIA who knows) knew EXACTLY what and where things were happening. you don’t provide billions of assistance and not get that information.
Dad still knows a thing or two. This is from him..
State Department knows where and who every American is, don’t kid yourself. They could have gotten everyone out if they wanted. Maybe not the spouse of an Afghan living in a village who doesn’t want to leave. Most did not want to get left behind. The Afghans who provided support to the US certainly didn’t think the Taliban was ever coming back in control - do you think they would have supported us?
The whole pull out of Afghanistan was not supposed to happen, it was a political talking point. Neither president (the R or the D) would have pulled the troops out.
We had fairly low troop numbers, generally staying on the airbase. Afghan’s were providing security, we were providing air support. It was expensive, we were paying the afghan troops and bribing the village leaders.
We have 3.5 million troops in South Korea, 60,000 in Germany, 50,000 in Japan.
China put pressure on the US to get out of Afghanistan and we (someone) caved to the pressure.

Some (?) country that doesn't like us probably put pressure on to get us out of Afghanistan. It may have been for Lithium? It could have been to prevent the US from controlling a country like Afghanistan which has a strategic location? It could be a country that wants to see the heroin trade continue?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Toymeister

As someone who was there I can assure you that no President deserves credit for this evacuation. That goes to the Airmen and Soliders and the untold thousands of federal employees, logisticians, DoD contractors, not the president, not by a long shot.

If ANY President gets the blame whenever something goes badly, why can't that President get credit when something goes right?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Toymeister

As someone who was there I can assure you that no President deserves credit for this evacuation. That goes to the Airmen and Soliders and the untold thousands of federal employees, logisticians, DoD contractors, not the president, not by a long shot.

Yes they all get the credit for doing all the legwork, the physical work, the strategic planning, logistics, arrangements.

But they wouldn't have done any of it if the President hadn't said "okay let's do that." He could've said no. He made the tough decision to say yes. He's being lambasted for it.

So if you want to give all those people the "credit" for doing it, then you need to accept that certain of the American citizenry are blaming Biden for all the things that went wrong - when - according to you, he didn't do anything at all. It was all those other people who did it all.

[ureout]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Congrats on the thread lasting more than 5 minutes!!!

I agree... especially 1 of your threads

[billethkid]

the last plane has left and "....we are out...".

Discussion about who may still be there?

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by tvbound

Had we just been smart enough to include the Afghani government in the withdrawal talks, instead of ONLY the Taliban, more than likely the whole country wouldn't have fallen to the Taliban in a record time - that no one could predict. At least smarter heads eventually prevailed, when the asinine idea of inviting the Taliban to Camp David on 9/11 was floated, to 'celebrate' the original May withdrawal. Let's hope we learned a big lesson here.

The Afghan leaders didn’t have problem getting out. So, they most had likely fly on the wall?

[DARFAP]

There is no logic

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

If ANY President gets the blame whenever something goes badly, why can't that President get credit when something goes right?

I guess you don’t understand the ( ) system of us against them?

[Koapaka]

Originally Posted by billethkid

the last plane has left and "....we are out...".

Discussion about who may still be there?

According to a tweet there were 7 busloads of American women that were blocked from being able to access the airport and are now in taliban hands....for starters Emily Miller tweeted "We’re dealing with Kabul. There’s 7 buses of female American citizens. The CG refused to open the gate. We have a congressman with us and he had the state department reach out. MG Donahue refused. 10 minutes ago the females were taken by the Taliban. They are likely dead now."