[Neils]

No politics here

Wonder why we could maintain a very large base in Germany for about 75 years after we defeated the Nazi and help ensure a stable government. Same for Japan. Same for Manila.

But now a relatively small force left in Afghanistan that mostly operated air power and intelligence services for the remote locations from a secure base at Bagram was deemed urgent to close.

I question why our leaders are making these decisions.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by ureout

what I don't understand is that the treaty with the taliban was signed in Feb, of 2020... why didn't American citizens start leaving then?? also why were most of the armed forces removed before the evacuations were complete??

According to that treaty we were supposed to be out in May 2021. Why were they still there now? I expect the post earlier explaining that no one there believed we were actually leaving is probably close to the truth - but, I was not included in that email, it is above my pay grade.

[Toymeister]

Originally Posted by ureout

what I don't understand is that the treaty with the taliban was signed in Feb, of 2020... why didn't American citizens start leaving then?? also why were most of the armed forces removed before the evacuations were complete??

I was there in February 2020, we were leaving. It was horrible for those that did. COVID hysteria was in full motion by then. If you could get a flight you could expect to be quarantined at every stage, every country. A military run quarantine is not like a vacation. Our news source was MSM who were besides themselves with paranoia. We were concerned to come back to the US, it sounded like a disaster.

No one could come into theater, we kept whoever we could. When I left in April, 20 I got the same reception that you would give a first date who just told you that they had AIDS. In fact those deployed were under far less risk than you in Florida as every aspect, every risk was managed to minimize our exposure.

It's really easy to guess what should have been done but you didn't live it.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Toymeister

It's really easy to guess what should have been done but you didn't live it.

Absolutely.

[Papa_lecki]

I grew up in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Liberia - father was CIA. he sept his career in the Middle East. We (and other Americans) were evacuated form Pakistan, to Afghanistan and from Liberia to US.

Originally Posted by dewilson58

We have hundreds and hundreds of military personnel strategizing, strategizing, What If'g, What If'g and yet we are told..............."No one predicted an early collapse of the good guys / the quick take-over of the bad guys." (the chicken vs. the egg)

In both cases, state department (it’s not the military, its the state department with the CIA who knows) knew EXACTLY what and where things were happening. you don’t provide billions of assistance and not get that information.
Dad still knows a thing or two. This is from him..
State Department knows where and who every American is, don’t kid yourself. They could have gotten everyone out if they wanted. Maybe not the spouse of an Afghan living in a village who doesn’t want to leave. Most did not want to get left behind. The Afghans who provided support to the US certainly didn’t think the Taliban was ever coming back in control - do you think they would have supported us?
The whole pull out of Afghanistan was not supposed to happen, it was a political talking point. Neither president (the R or the D) would have pulled the troops out.
We had fairly low troop numbers, generally staying on the airbase. Afghan’s were providing security, we were providing air support. It was expensive, we were paying the afghan troops and bribing the village leaders.
We have 3.5 million troops in South Korea, 60,000 in Germany, 50,000 in Japan.
China put pressure on the US to get out of Afghanistan and we (someone) caved to the pressure.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

I grew up in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Liberia - father was CIA. he sept his career in the Middle East. We (and other Americans) were evacuated form Pakistan, to Afghanistan and from Liberia to US.



In both cases, state department (it’s not the military, its the state department with the CIA who knows) knew EXACTLY what and where things were happening. you don’t provide billions of assistance and not get that information.
Dad still knows a thing or two. This is from him..
State Department knows where and who every American is, don’t kid yourself. They could have gotten everyone out if they wanted. Maybe not the spouse of an Afghan living in a village who doesn’t want to leave. Most did not want to get left behind. The Afghans who provided support to the US certainly didn’t think the Taliban was ever coming back in control - do you think they would have supported us?
The whole pull out of Afghanistan was not supposed to happen, it was a political talking point. Neither president (the R or the D) would have pulled the troops out.
We had fairly low troop numbers, generally staying on the airbase. Afghan’s were providing security, we were providing air support. It was expensive, we were paying the afghan troops and bribing the village leaders.
We have 3.5 million troops in South Korea, 60,000 in Germany, 50,000 in Japan.
China put pressure on the US to get out of Afghanistan and we (someone) caved to the pressure.

……When you agree to even talk to the Taliban, who our government had ignored, and who we were told up till the day of the agreement could not be trusted, and instead ignore the existing “government”, and then release 5000 prisoners, who may be the worst of the worst and actual “leaders” who returned immediately to the “war” they had been fighting…….what could be expected to happen. They were not imprisoned because they carried signs

We’re there lapses in intelligence recently…..heck yeah, but this was doomed from the very beginning.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Neils

No politics here

Wonder why we could maintain a very large base in Germany for about 75 years after we defeated the Nazi and help ensure a stable government. Same for Japan. Same for Manila.

But now a relatively small force left in Afghanistan that mostly operated air power and intelligence services for the remote locations from a secure base at Bagram was deemed urgent to close.

I question why our leaders are making these decisions.

No politics, just the answer, ask President Trump, he signed the treaty agreeing with the Taliban that we would leave last May.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

No politics, just the answer, ask President Trump, he signed the treaty agreeing with the Taliban that we would leave last May.

With a lot of conditions / requirements.

The current retreat had nothing to do with the "treaty" agreeing to leave in May........the withdrawal happened way after May.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Bucco

then release 5000 prisoners, who may be the worst of the worst and actual “leaders” who returned immediately to the “war” they had been fighting…….what could be expected to happen. They were not imprisoned because they carried signs

Buc, gots to agree with you. These were nasty boys and obviously had no love for the USA, what did "we" expect????, start painting more signs???

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

With a lot of conditions / requirements.

The current retreat had nothing to do with the "treaty" agreeing to leave in May........the withdrawal happened way after May.

Yup, lots of conditions and requirements. And they were mostly living up to them, not all but mostly.

As to why we left now, I was not at the meeting you apparently attended where the decision was made, since you KNOW it had nothing to do with the treaty... Please share what was said.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

I grew up in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Liberia - father was CIA.

Thanks for the non-political information.

Thank your dad & mom (she was right there) for their service.

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

It is either incompetence, or uncaring disregard for the lives of US Citizens and Allies who are being abandoned. Regrettably it seems a cold uncaring disregard. When asked about the people falling to their death from planes as they tried to escape the Taliban, Biden said "C'mon man, that was four or five days ago". I can not be too hard on him, as I believe he has a mental issue. Those who defend him on the other hand... Just terrible people. So desperate to make it seem like they have accomplished something that they turn their backs on men, women and children.

"It is either incompetence, or uncaring disregard for the lives of US Citizens and Allies"

Is it safe to assume you feel the same about our Kurdish allies, that we simply abandoned/left - without even an attempt at evacuating?

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Yup, lots of conditions and requirements. And they were mostly living up to them, not all but mostly.

As to why we left now, I was not at the meeting you apparently attended where the decision was made, since you KNOW it had nothing to do with the treaty... Please share what was said.

Let's not get childish.

I hear one said say.........well it's because of the agreement by the prior president. When has the current president kept to anything the prior did or signed?? and if we stuck to the agreement, we would have been out by May.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

I grew up in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Liberia - father was CIA. he sept his career in the Middle East. We (and other Americans) were evacuated form Pakistan, to Afghanistan and from Liberia to US.



In both cases, state department (it’s not the military, its the state department with the CIA who knows) knew EXACTLY what and where things were happening. you don’t provide billions of assistance and not get that information.
Dad still knows a thing or two. This is from him..
State Department knows where and who every American is, don’t kid yourself. They could have gotten everyone out if they wanted. Maybe not the spouse of an Afghan living in a village who doesn’t want to leave. Most did not want to get left behind. The Afghans who provided support to the US certainly didn’t think the Taliban was ever coming back in control - do you think they would have supported us?
The whole pull out of Afghanistan was not supposed to happen, it was a political talking point. Neither president (the R or the D) would have pulled the troops out.
We had fairly low troop numbers, generally staying on the airbase. Afghan’s were providing security, we were providing air support. It was expensive, we were paying the afghan troops and bribing the village leaders.
We have 3.5 million troops in South Korea, 60,000 in Germany, 50,000 in Japan.
China put pressure on the US to get out of Afghanistan and we (someone) caved to the pressure.

Not even close. We have about 30,000 troops in South Korea. We don't even have 3.5 million active duty military.

As far as Afghanistan, wars aren't won there. They are just perpetuated. Simple fact is we got caught with our pants down. The Taliban mowed over the Afghan security forces much faster than the U.S. wanted to believe possible. Now we're paying for that mistake. Yes, it is easy to Monday morning quarterback. Hopefully we can get out the people that need to get out without any further loss of life.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Let's not get childish.

I hear one said say.........well it's because of the agreement by the prior president. When has the current president kept to anything the prior did or signed?? and if we stuck to the agreement, we would have been out by May.

Actually, it is very rare for a President to unilaterally pull out of a Treaty a previous administration had sign on behalf of the US. Well, until recently it has been rare. America's word used to be sacred around the world. Now, not so much. And this "botched" withdrawal is not helping repair the damage to our reputation.