[Bonnevie]

Originally Posted by Swoop

I see the old “save the children” card is being played again. Just the facts, but since the onset of Covid-19, fewer than 500 children 0-18 have died from the virus. In that same timeframe more than 70,000 have died from other causes.

Or the “do it for those who can’t be vaccinated” card. Just to be clear, those who can’t be vaccinated (not including children) make up less than 1% of the population.

And the “vaccine is completely safe” argument. If any of you who believe that, will provide a long term study of the effects of mRNA vaccines, I will gladly read it. Since no studies exist, no one really knows what the long term effects of the vaccines will be.

I am always amazed at those who cavalierly quote the number of children who have died as insignificant. well, it's not if it's your kid. also, there are cases of long covid among children who even get a mild case. further those fearful of the long term effects of the vaccine should consider what it might be doing to a child's still developing brain since autopsies of covid victims show brain inflammation. we know less about the long term consequences of the virus.

[Bonnevie]

Originally Posted by KarenD

TimeToFreeAmerica.com

Tells you everything you need to know. Stay on top of the facts.

The Patriots will prevail.

just in case fox news isn't enough for you....

[billethkid]

There are many opinions and wants which all are entitled to have.
However I venture a guess that many opinions would change if a loved one were infected by a non vaccinated encounter and died!

Or if a loved one cannot get the treatment at the hospital needed to survive because the beds and staff are all taken/consumed by the non vaccinated sick.

It is so easy to preach when there is no personal investment involved..... we know we are all entitled to do so!

At some point in the "debate" we can only hope reality and personal investment eventually prevails.....

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by Bonnevie

I am always amazed at those who cavalierly quote the number of children who have died as insignificant. well, it's not if it's your kid. also, there are cases of long covid among children who even get a mild case. further those fearful of the long term effects of the vaccine should consider what it might be doing to a child's still developing brain since autopsies of covid victims show brain inflammation. we know less about the long term consequences of the virus.

And please tell me what the long term effects of the vaccine will be in all those children…
The percentage of children who have died from Covid is infinitesimal. The potential number of children who could be effected long term by the vaccine could be enormous…
Protect those who are in danger. Do put those who are not in danger at risk.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Singerlady

There is a HUGE difference between the flu virus and the Covid virus. Covid is much more contagious, deadly and affects OTHERS. We are all getting the vaccine for the common good. We are protecting others. We are trying to get back to normal. Not getting the vaccine affects OTHERS much more than the flu vaccine. I care about OTHERS. People need to stop being so selfish, high and mighty and self-serving and help others.

Where is the mandate for "the common good" or "protecting others?" Didn't that go the way of the United Soviet States of Russia? Or is communism now prevalent in America?

"U.S. Supreme Court in 1997:
In a long line of cases, we have held that, in addition to the specific freedoms protected by the Bill of Rights, the ‘liberty’ specially protected by the Due Process Clause includes the rights to .... and to abortion, Casey, supra. We have also assumed, and strongly suggested, that the Due Process Clause protects the traditional right to refuse unwanted lifesaving medical treatment. Cruzan, 497 U.S. [261] at 278-279, 110 S.Ct. [2841] at 2851-2852.
Washington v. Glucksberg, 521 U.S. 702, 720 (1997)."

[QPB0078]

Originally Posted by Bonnevie

I am all for it. Enough of the vaccinated cow towing to those who refuse to educate themselves. If people don't get vaccinated then we all may be in danger of another variant that the vaccines won't work against. That's a national health issue. we all needed certain vaccines to go to school, I fail to see the difference in requiring this one....it's just a certain group that have adopted this as a rallying cry. Many approaches have already been tried to coax these people to do the right thing....special lotteries, money incentives, etc. Quantas is the first airline that is going to require vaccination...I hope more follow. many businesses are already requiring them (or trying to, i.e. cruises). People have died because there are no ICU beds available because of the unvaccinated. Frankly, I'm with Howard Stern (who I rarely agree with) on this: Howard Stern tears into people who won’t get Covid vaccine:
‘When are we going to stop putting up with the idiots in this country?’

I agree with you

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Bonnevie

yeah, well mandates were good enough for George Washington who was fighting for democracy....

For the military, right?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by drducat

Take a look.....

U.S. CDC chief says there will be no federal mandate on COVID-19 vaccine | Reuters

But rather than read just the title of the article (which is misleading), read this paragraph, which is part of the article:

"To clarify: There will be no nationwide mandate. I was referring to mandates by private institutions and portions of the federal government," Walensky wrote in a Twitter post. "There will be no federal mandate."

That's for context. A nationwide mandate would be a mandate for EVERYONE. The new mandate by the president is not a nationwide mandate. It's a mandate for government employees and contractors, health care providers and employees who work in the health care sector, companies that employ 100 or more people. It ALSO allows employees of companies over 100 people to opt out and get tested every week instead of being vaccinated. So even in that, it's not a vaccine mandate.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Bonnevie

I am always amazed at those who cavalierly quote the number of children who have died as insignificant. well, it's not if it's your kid. also, there are cases of long covid among children who even get a mild case. further those fearful of the long term effects of the vaccine should consider what it might be doing to a child's still developing brain since autopsies of covid victims show brain inflammation. we know less about the long term consequences of the virus.

"I am always amazed at those who cavalierly" claim that it is OK for women to kill their unborn babies, and then profess to be horrified at school aged children not being vaccinated against an illness that hardly effects children. Since it is the "woman's choice" why not allow the parents to make those kind of decisions?

[Rlheinz19@yahoo.com]

Originally Posted by billethkid

I I support that like flu shots...those who want it get it....the rest consciously elect to risk getting the flu. It is their choice....they live with the results.

To get the virus vaccine or not unfortunately has been swept away from individual decisions to taking sides.

There are so many other things "mandated" in our lives by local, state, federal government, VCCD in TV, Deed restrictions in TV (and any where else), the draft, tax brackets, speed limits, et al.

When the vaccination is left to be voluntary then the results that follow should be acceptable as well.....hospitalizations, sickness and death of those not vaccinated.

Stop making it a big deal daily measurement.

It most certainly is not for those who choose to not get vaccinated!!

I worked for years in healthcare. Basic immunizations, annual TB tests and annual flu shots were required for employment. I know noone that quit over the flu shot requirement.
Millions of school children are required to get basic immunizations before attending school.
Now that we have the most life threatening virus in 100 years why are people freaking out about requiring a vaccine.
I really don't understand.

[tedquick]

[QUOTE=dewilson58;2001321]All employers with +99 employees.

OHSA, "employees in grave danger"??? Think not.

I support vaccinations, but not this way.

[/QUOT



I agree!

ted

[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by Byte1

"Sir, may I see your papers please?
Sir, this says that your vaccination is not up to date/current. I am afraid I will have to write you a citation and fine you $500. And you will not be able to operate your vehicle, which will have to be towed. Sir, why are you not wearing three face masks as required? You only appear to be wearing two. I'll have to fine you for that also."

For those that insist that children have been mandated vaccinations in order to attend public school, you DO realize that vaccination mandates for public schools is NOT a federal requirement, right? That has been left up to the individual states. So, your example is wrong as your argument for mandating vaccinations is wrong.
I have my vaccination and believe that others should VOLUNTARILY get theirs also. I also understand those that are reluctant, especially considering how many times the gov has been wrong on so many things. I am not in fear of those unvaccinated folks. It is their choice and they will not effect my actions at all. I do not accept the FREE mask at the door of Walmart when offered upon entry, because I have confidence in being vaccinated. I do NOT have confidence in the cheap paper mask being offered and see no purpose in wearing it. Or, rather little purpose. Unlike some on here that are slave to hysteria, I take life circumstances as it is thrown at me. And do not lecture me on "patriotism" or you might just get yourself embarrassed. I do not care if you are a coward and never served or whether you served in combat for several years. It has nothing to do with your panic and hysteria over another disease. It really doesn't matter to me how many folks die from it that I do not know. Yes, I will be concerned if folks I know perish, but I am sure that most folks value their freedom to make life changing choices more than they worry about death. Otherwise, we would have no military volunteers, law enforcement or first responders.
By the way, even those states mandating vaccinations for children attending school DO NOT mandate flu shots. Think about it. And think about what is your REAL motivation for wishing for Federal mandates limiting every liberty and freedom that concerns your lifestyle.
My opinion is that vaccinations are good, but not everyone has that same opinion. I respect everyone else's opinion, but I do not respect others making decisions for those that do not agree with them. It is NOT your responsibility to protect other folks unless it is your occupation to do so. You have no right to make decisions for other folks, based on your opinion regardless of the so-called science that is ever changing.

Your post jumps around allot, so much that I don't understand you. You are vaccinated..smart, yet you don't care if people die, unless you know them..odd. You call people cowards if they haven't served..??
you assume people don't know the levels of gov making the decisions, and I don't believe people want to save others, they themselves just want to feel safe.

[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by Merrills

You know when I worked in Health care I had to get vaccines and boosters. Vaccines are
Required for
Pre school thru grad school. You get a tetanus shot when you break the skin in an accident.Vaccines eradicated smallpox and more recently polio. I can’t fathom the uneducated stubborn mentality that WIL NOT GET THIS VACCINE. I f you don’t get the vaccine and get the virus, well you deserve it. And if I have a chance to remind you I will rub your nose in the pile of — — — — you have created for yourself!

So True!

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Maybe the Federal Gov can mandate vaccinations legally, .....or maybe not. I keep hearing on here about how vaccinations have been mandated in the past, BUT I am not sure that the Federal Gov has EVER mandated U.S. citizens vaccinated. Individual states have mandated vaccinations for school attendance and I believe a few towns way back mandated it's citizens to get the small pox vaccination, but I can not remember reading or being taught that there was ever a federal mandate for U.S. citizens to be vaccinated. What other countries do for entry into their borders is not pertinent.

Government mandated vaccines began with George Washington during the Revolutionary War.

It has continued throughout history for military personnel (who are US Citizens, for the most part).

The US Supreme Court also supports states that mandate vaccines, although that's not a federal mandate, it's federal support of a state mandate.

OSHA, which is a Federal department within the Department of Labor, imposes vaccine mandates for certain types of jobs, including Hep B vaccines for first responders who might be needed for collateral duty.

So yes, there is not only a history of actual federal mandates for vaccines, but the Supreme Court upholds and supports the states which impose their own vaccine requirements.

[Ptmckiou]

Interesting that nonvaxed don’t trust the medical community/science enough to get the vaccine, but trust them to get them well when they catch COVID and end up in the hospital. Odd mentality.