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Toymeister 09-10-2021 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnevie (Post 2001545)
Apparently you didn’t go to elementary school? Because those of us who did had to get mandated vaccines.

Apparently you are not aware that elementary school is attended by minors and that minors do not make their own choices.

OrangeBlossomBaby 09-10-2021 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2001570)
Sadly, those promoting the vaccine have lied , as well...

There has been a horrible job of messaging...

The people who you NEED to listen to, who have been promoting the vaccine, have been wrong at times. They've also learned more as time passed, facts that they didn't have when they came to their initial opinions and guidelines. Science evolves as the human species learns more about it. Where once the treatment for a brain tumor was drilling the skull to let the "bad humors escape," we have learned more about surgery, chemo, radiation. Where once our ancestors might have died from scurvy, we now know about the wonders of vitamin C.

So yes - there's been difficulty getting the message across from the people who we SHOULD be listening to.

But there are people who we should NOT be listening to, making a whole lot of noise and pushing an anti-vax, covid-hoax agenda. Most of these people are easily sussed out, however there are too many people who want to believe fiction, because it's inconvenient for them to believe truth.

OrangeBlossomBaby 09-10-2021 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toymeister (Post 2001571)
Apparently you are not aware that elementary school is attended by minors and that minors do not make their own choices.

Parents are not required by law to send their children to public school. Their attendance is not mandatory. Any parent who has a problem with the teachers being mandated to vaccinate, and their children to wear masks, are absolutely welcome, and allowed by law, to withdraw their child from public school and find another method of educating their kids.

drducat 09-10-2021 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2001557)
Do I really have to re-post the dictionary definition of a vaccine AGAIN????
Well, I'm not going to. Very simply, IT IS A VACCINE.

Now, I have no idea what the "dr" in that user name represents, but clearly by virtue of content it has absolutely nothing to do with medicine.

And the new dictionary definition is??? It changed...thought everyone was following and doing what the CDC offers up.....they changed the definition on Sept 1 where has everyone been??? golfing??

golfing eagles 09-10-2021 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 2001582)
And the new dictionary definition is??? It changed...thought everyone was following and doing what the CDC offers up.....they changed the definition on Sept 1 where has everyone been??? golfing??

Yes, they changed it slightly. As of sept. 1 the definition of a vaccine according to the CDC is:

The CDC’s definition changed from “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” to the current “a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases.”

Therefore, the current mRNA preparations are VACCINES

PS: Where have you been?????

drducat 09-10-2021 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2001584)
Yes, they changed it slightly. As of sept. 1 the definition of a vaccine according to the CDC is:

The CDC’s definition changed from “a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” to the current “a preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases.”

Therefore, the current mRNA preparations are VACCINES

PS: Where have you been?????


And??? Not what was said earlier right?

At any rate......The current vaccines that are available are still not approved...The approved BioNTech is not being produced yet...So the Mandate if any..... are for Pfizer...Only approved for emergency use still.

So everyone is ok with forced injection of an experimental substance???


Also these only produce toxic spike proteins by the trillions in your body where only a fraction of your immunity is triggered...this is why the short term immunity.....By the time your over the side affects...you need a booster.....on and on......If this is your science please go away.

vb993 09-10-2021 01:29 PM

Most of the people that are arriving at hospitals with severe Covid symptoms are unvaccinated. I say, to those who refuse to wear masks, and refuse to get vaccines, I say stay the H_E_l_L away from me. You can have clown car parades all you want, but don't come near me with your covid infections.

coffeebean 09-10-2021 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanley (Post 2001549)
Fact is it's not a fact yet.

There have already been vaccine mandates in effect.

Tblue 09-10-2021 01:49 PM

Using the President own numbers last night I believe he said 80 million are unvaccinated, roughly 25% of the nation. So does that mean 75% are vaccinated? Many may recall herd immunity was the answer long before the vaccine. Many may also recall back then herd immunity was around 65%-%70. At 75% vaccinated we have achieved it. I forgot about the 100 million or so that have had this virus and have natural immunity. My point of the posting here is, maybe the argument should be not be vaccinated vs non vaccinated but should be immunity vs no immunity. I personally have a little mistrust for those in authority who put out facts and figures, masks are needed, opps no masks, opps masks again maybe 2 or 3 masks. I still listen to those in authority, but listen with much more skepticism.

npwalters 09-10-2021 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnevie (Post 2001414)
I am all for it. Enough of the vaccinated cow towing to those who refuse to educate themselves. If people don't get vaccinated then we all may be in danger of another variant that the vaccines won't work against. That's a national health issue. we all needed certain vaccines to go to school, I fail to see the difference in requiring this one....it's just a certain group that have adopted this as a rallying cry. Many approaches have already been tried to coax these people to do the right thing....special lotteries, money incentives, etc. Quantas is the first airline that is going to require vaccination...I hope more follow. many businesses are already requiring them (or trying to, i.e. cruises). People have died because there are no ICU beds available because of the unvaccinated. Frankly, I'm with Howard Stern (who I rarely agree with) on this: Howard Stern tears into people who won’t get Covid vaccine:
‘When are we going to stop putting up with the idiots in this country?’

Yes! Lets stop those idiots from hauling cows! Stand up for bovine rights.

kow·tow
/ˌkouˈtou/
verb
1.
act in an excessively subservient manner.
"she didn't have to kowtow to a boss"

golfing eagles 09-10-2021 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 2001588)
And??? Not what was said earlier right?

At any rate......The current vaccines that are available are still not approved...The approved BioNTech is not being produced yet...So the Mandate if any..... are for Pfizer...Only approved for emergency use still.

So everyone is ok with forced injection of an experimental substance???


Also these only produce toxic spike proteins by the trillions in your body where only a fraction of your immunity is triggered...this is why the short term immunity.....By the time your over the side affects...you need a booster.....on and on......If this is your science please go away.

Yes, EXACTLY what I said earlier, IT IS A VACCINE, and it is NOT experimental

Unfortunately, I can't educate anyone who refuses to learn, so I give up.

Bonnevie 09-10-2021 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toymeister (Post 2001571)
Apparently you are not aware that elementary school is attended by minors and that minors do not make their own choices.

doesn't change the fact that the vaccines are mandated. from the CDC: State and local vaccination requirements for daycare and school entry are important tools for maintaining high vaccination coverage rates, and in turn, lower rates of vaccine-preventable diseases (VPDs).

State laws establish vaccination requirements for school children. These laws often apply not only to children attending public schools but also to those attending private schools and day care facilities. All states provide medical exemptions, and some state laws also offer exemptions for religious and/or philosophical reasons. State laws also establish mechanisms for enforcement of school vaccination requirements and exemptions.

so there's precedent for vaccinations. hopefully, Biden's plan for work place compliance will get a large number of parents at least vaccinated. it's so extremely sad to read about cases like the 4 year old in TX who died from Covid and likely caught it from other family members who were eligible for the vaccine but chose not to get it.

Bonnevie 09-10-2021 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tblue (Post 2001606)
Using the President own numbers last night I believe he said 80 million are unvaccinated, roughly 25% of the nation. So does that mean 75% are vaccinated? Many may recall herd immunity was the answer long before the vaccine. Many may also recall back then herd immunity was around 65%-%70. At 75% vaccinated we have achieved it. I forgot about the 100 million or so that have had this virus and have natural immunity. My point of the posting here is, maybe the argument should be not be vaccinated vs non vaccinated but should be immunity vs no immunity. I personally have a little mistrust for those in authority who put out facts and figures, masks are needed, opps no masks, opps masks again maybe 2 or 3 masks. I still listen to those in authority, but listen with much more skepticism.

except that without every one getting vaccinated there may be no long term immunity. as long as the virus finds a host to replicate in there will be variants and eventually it will find a way around the vaccine. it's a race to shut down the available hosts before the vaccine mutates and does that. this country was in the position of seeing how the delta variant spread in places where initial success had been. how it spread thru the unvaccinated. had the US been able to get more people vaccinated we may have fared far better...instead it was just a repeat of what was seen elsewhere like the UK.

Koapaka 09-10-2021 02:40 PM

The CDC says vaccine protection is tumbling for older Americans, though they still work very well for younger people

golfing eagles 09-10-2021 02:46 PM

No surprise whatsoever. The older we get, the weaker our immune systems become. Then add to that the fact that "older" Americans were among the first to get vaccinated and therefore will be the first to lose immunity from the vaccine.

coffeebean 09-10-2021 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 2001582)
And the new dictionary definition is??? It changed...thought everyone was following and doing what the CDC offers up.....they changed the definition on Sept 1 where has everyone been??? golfing??

The CDC's revised definition of "vaccine" and "vaccination" seems fair enough.........

Access Denied

coffeebean 09-10-2021 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2001615)
Yes, EXACTLY what I said earlier, IT IS A VACCINE, and it is NOT experimental

Unfortunately, I can't educate anyone who refuses to learn, so I give up.

GE......please don't give up. If you can get through to just one person who has been programmed to believe the misinformation, you will have done a great service to everyone.

golfing eagles 09-10-2021 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2001636)
The CDC's revised definition of "vaccine" and "vaccination" seems fair enough.........

Access Denied

The definition is fine. Some people (not you obviously) have no idea how to interpret it.

golfing eagles 09-10-2021 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2001640)
GE......please don't give up. If you can get through to just one person who has been programmed to believe the misinformation, you will have done a great service to everyone.

Unfortunately, some people are just too far gone. It's like triage in the ER after a disaster---you don't waste time treating those that won't make it anyway.

OrangeBlossomBaby 09-10-2021 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tblue (Post 2001606)
Using the President own numbers last night I believe he said 80 million are unvaccinated, roughly 25% of the nation. So does that mean 75% are vaccinated? Many may recall herd immunity was the answer long before the vaccine. Many may also recall back then herd immunity was around 65%-%70. At 75% vaccinated we have achieved it. I forgot about the 100 million or so that have had this virus and have natural immunity. My point of the posting here is, maybe the argument should be not be vaccinated vs non vaccinated but should be immunity vs no immunity. I personally have a little mistrust for those in authority who put out facts and figures, masks are needed, opps no masks, opps masks again maybe 2 or 3 masks. I still listen to those in authority, but listen with much more skepticism.

1. Context is everything. The 80 million is in reference to the people who -can- be vaccinated. Not the total number of people. Children under 12 -cannot- presently be vaccinated and aren't counted among the 80 million people who aren't vaccinated. Neither are people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons (such as my sister). 25% of the "people who CAN vaccinate" are not vaccinated. There are millions of people who CANNOT vaccinate. So that means millions more than 25% of the total population is not vaccinated.

2. We don't know what the % for the total population to be vaccinated will constitute herd immunity with COVID-19. We obviously haven't reached it yet. For the measles, herd immunity means 95% of the total population. The percentage varies from disease to disease.

drducat 09-10-2021 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2001657)
1. Context is everything. The 80 million is in reference to the people who -can- be vaccinated. Not the total number of people. Children under 12 -cannot- presently be vaccinated and aren't counted among the 80 million people who aren't vaccinated. Neither are people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons (such as my sister). 25% of the "people who CAN vaccinate" are not vaccinated. There are millions of people who CANNOT vaccinate. So that means millions more than 25% of the total population is not vaccinated.

2. We don't know what the % for the total population to be vaccinated will constitute herd immunity with COVID-19. We obviously haven't reached it yet. For the measles, herd immunity means 95% of the total population. The percentage varies from disease to disease.

For sure herd immunity will never be reached and that is NEVER.

Also, the mandates are all almost dead already.....all coming to an end soon.

golfing eagles 09-10-2021 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 2001662)
For sure herd immunity will never be reached and that is NEVER.

Also, the mandates are all almost dead already.....all coming to an end soon.

Did you get that information from the oracle at Delphi, or the psychic friends network?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

saratogaman 09-10-2021 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justjim (Post 2001478)
Your post is spot on and makes common sense. I know it’s the word “mandate” that gets some people back up. I understand but occasionally we are called to do something for the better good and that is what taking the Covid vaccine is all about.

For those concerned with 'freedom,' no one has the right to infect others. For example, it's a crime to infect someone with AIDS.

drducat 09-10-2021 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2001665)
Did you get that information from the oracle at Delphi, or the psychic friends network?:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I am not a dreamer like some...

golfing eagles 09-10-2021 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 2001674)
I am not a dreamer like some...

Too bad, because that would probably be about the best descriptive adjective to be hoped from among the other choices:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

John41 09-10-2021 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnevie (Post 2001688)
I bet Fox News runs at your house all day.

So you don’t deny the facts just try to deflect. And you must be the last person watching CNN according to their ratings, LOL
————————-
FORBES
Rankings of the most trusted brands in news show that Fox News gained ground in the six months since February 2021, while rival networks CNN and MSNBC both saw declines in trust, according to research conducted by Brand Keys for Media Post, which published the results Monday.

billethkid 09-10-2021 06:13 PM

How many of us remember not being able to go to school if we were not vaccinated?
How many remember that for any one of our children to be able to go to school they had to be vaccinated?

Why was it ok then? And for so many...... not today?

Today....there are still vaccination/shot requirements for different countries around the world....if you want to get into the country you will be vaccinated. Why is that ok?

JMintzer 09-10-2021 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2001572)
Yup. No jab, no entry.

Some folks have chosen to assign "immigrants without vaccines" the latest trend of bashing on immigrants.

So they should be HAPPY to see mandates here in the USA. No jab, no citizenship. That goes for everyone else too. What's good for the refugee is good for the citizen. Unless they think that unvaccinated citizens have superior blood and therefore don't offer the same risks to the community as immigrants?

I don't recall anyone making a stink about immigrants from Germany, Poland, Britain, Ireland, Scotland, France, Canada - coming without a vaccine.

But they're being REALLY loud about certain dark-skinned refugees and their immunization status.

Hrrm.

A few basic points...

Our Constitution does not hold water overseas. They are free to do what they want...

We know for a fact that many of the refugees are carrying communicable diseases.

I have no problem with other countries mandating who can and who cannot enter their country. Just as I have no problem with the US mandating the "refugees" show proof of or be vaccinated...

And "the jab" has nothing to do with "citizenship"... How you came up with that red herring is ponderous...

JMintzer 09-10-2021 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2001574)
The people who you NEED to listen to, who have been promoting the vaccine, have been wrong at times. They've also learned more as time passed, facts that they didn't have when they came to their initial opinions and guidelines. Science evolves as the human species learns more about it. Where once the treatment for a brain tumor was drilling the skull to let the "bad humors escape," we have learned more about surgery, chemo, radiation. Where once our ancestors might have died from scurvy, we now know about the wonders of vitamin C.

So yes - there's been difficulty getting the message across from the people who we SHOULD be listening to.

But there are people who we should NOT be listening to, making a whole lot of noise and pushing an anti-vax, covid-hoax agenda. Most of these people are easily sussed out, however there are too many people who want to believe fiction, because it's inconvenient for them to believe truth.

Well, when the people we SHOULD be listening to have lied, multiple times, it gives one pause...

JMintzer 09-10-2021 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vb993 (Post 2001594)
Most of the people that are arriving at hospitals with severe Covid symptoms are unvaccinated. I say, to those who refuse to wear masks, and refuse to get vaccines, I say stay the H_E_l_L away from me. You can have clown car parades all you want, but don't come near me with your covid infections.

That type of comment will sure go a long way in convincing people to get vaccinated...

JMintzer 09-10-2021 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tblue (Post 2001606)
Using the President own numbers last night I believe he said 80 million are unvaccinated, roughly 25% of the nation. So does that mean 75% are vaccinated? Many may recall herd immunity was the answer long before the vaccine. Many may also recall back then herd immunity was around 65%-%70. At 75% vaccinated we have achieved it. I forgot about the 100 million or so that have had this virus and have natural immunity. My point of the posting here is, maybe the argument should be not be vaccinated vs non vaccinated but should be immunity vs no immunity. I personally have a little mistrust for those in authority who put out facts and figures, masks are needed, opps no masks, opps masks again maybe 2 or 3 masks. I still listen to those in authority, but listen with much more skepticism.

Correct, not a word about the millions who have already had and recovered from Covid, who's immunity is exponentially higher...

JMintzer 09-10-2021 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnevie (Post 2001688)
I bet Fox News runs at your house all day.

Typical...

Everybody drink!

JMintzer 09-10-2021 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 2001704)
How many of us remember not being able to go to school if we were not vaccinated?
How many remember that for any one of our children to be able to go to school they had to be vaccinated?

Why was it ok then? And for so many...... not today?

Today....there are still vaccination/shot requirements for different countries around the world....if you want to get into the country you will be vaccinated. Why is that ok?

Because other countries make their own laws... Laws that have absolutely nothing to do with US laws or the US Constitution...

coffeebean 09-10-2021 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drducat (Post 2001662)
For sure herd immunity will never be reached and that is NEVER.

Also, the mandates are all almost dead already.....all coming to an end soon.

What makes you say that?

coffeebean 09-10-2021 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 2001704)
How many of us remember not being able to go to school if we were not vaccinated?
How many remember that for any one of our children to be able to go to school they had to be vaccinated?

Why was it ok then? And for so many...... not today?

Today....there are still vaccination/shot requirements for different countries around the world....if you want to get into the country you will be vaccinated. Why is that ok?

Exactly!

asianthree 09-10-2021 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 2001704)
How many of us remember not being able to go to school if we were not vaccinated?
How many remember that for any one of our children to be able to go to school they had to be vaccinated?

Why was it ok then? And for so many...... not today?

Today....there are still vaccination/shot requirements for different countries around the world....if you want to get into the country you will be vaccinated. Why is that ok?

Maybe where you went to school. I never was denied entry to a school because I was not fully vaccinated. Some children today attend school without some vaccines. My friend teaches at a school that doesn’t require any vaccines to attend. In some parts of the US parents are still allowed to make decisions about their children.

KarenD 09-11-2021 04:45 AM

Get the facts
 
TimeToFreeAmerica.com

Tells you everything you need to know. Stay on top of the facts.

The Patriots will prevail.

#1bulldog 09-11-2021 05:39 AM

What’s the real reason millions don’t want the vaccine? Is it about freedom, rights and a “you can’t tell me what to do” attitude?
Is it a similar fear that if we start banning some assault rifles that eventually all guns will be banned?

Just consider who gets hurt . . . now it’s young children getting hospitalized through no fault of their own. Time to step up and try to eradicate these viruses like this great country did with polio about 60 years ago. Remember?

JakeInTV 09-11-2021 05:50 AM

Very interesting/ Thanks

drducat 09-11-2021 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 2001727)
What makes you say that?

Law suits....Companies are lawyering up and in the waiting....Prediction is....Cases will hit supreme court and the ending will be in the form of clamping down on the Presidential branch going forward will be limited on penning many actions...including mandates like we are seeing.


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