[Keefelane66]

Only 330 mass shootings so far and it's only July 5th just accepted as normal.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

As was pointed out to me in the last mass shooting, automatic weapons are not illegal, they are just harder to buy.

And your answer did not contribute. I expect the poster you replied to meant semi-automatic, since automatic weapons are not a big problem.

And then you can make it clear that any gun that you can repeatedly pull the trigger and fire is a semi-automatic, just to be pedantic.

The fact is single shot derringers are seldom used in mass shootings.

And gun control does work, as Gov. Newsome pointed out on Truth Social a little while back, the most unregulated states (Red states) also have the most per capita shooting deaths. Or conversely the most regulated states (Blue states) have the lowest per capita gun death rate.

You mean like Chicago, with some of the most restrictive gun laws in America?????

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

So, what is the problem? I see a lot of posts in a lot of threads telling us what will not work, what is not the problem, why we are wrong. Never anything about solving the problem - oh, wait, MORE GUNS that will solve the problem. Even though we have the highest gun ownership in the world every administration of either party sells more guns than the previous and yet, the problem keeps getting worse.

So, please enlighten us how do we stop murdering each other and our children?

The problem is that when someone responds with an answer, if certain folks do not like the solution, it is immediately discounted as "that will never work."
Some folks say that they answer is guns in the hands of the good guys. I agree. I also believe that stricter penalties is a good deterrent. Unfortunately, then you have to consider that many "mass murderers" are merely performing a suicide by COP and no deterrent will work. Before anyone says that guns carried by good guys does not work, how about looking up the stats on how many lives have been saved every year by someone in possession of a gun. I believe it averages about a million per year are saved by a "good guy" with a gun.
When someone tell me that guns should be limited so they cannot be used to kill so many people in such a short time, I refer them to the fact that a revolver generally holds six rounds (bullets) and fires every time you pull the trigger until empty. A speed loader gives one the ability to reload in seconds. So, then you have someone like a certain person in D.C. that says a shot gun is all that is needed and that a warning shot in the air will solve the problem. Shot guns are also manufactured in the semi-automatic version, the pump version and the breech loaded style.
Now, consider home defense. If you home is being broken into by more than one perp. don't you want to even the odds of survival by having the ability to fire without reloading as much as you would if restricted by a six shot revolver or a shot gun? If the bad guys only had revolvers and were numbered two or more, they they would have twice the ability as you would, even if they were restricted by carrying only a revolver. Capacity of the gun the "good guy" is limited to, is not the answer either.
The fact really is that there is a very low number of folks killed by guns in America compared to the number of folks saved by guns, considering the amount of guns owned in the U.S. If not killed by guns, then by knives, cars, doctors, cancer, heart disease, etc. The only way to lower the killings is to scare the perpetrators into submission. Take away one instrument of murder and you only cause the person to find another. Blah, blah, blah, etc.

[TC_Arch]

Originally Posted by charlie1

I used to be a hunter and really would not want anyone to stop me from having my hunting guns. I could even see the potential reason for personal handguns for self defense. BUT I do feel that there needs to be much more control on automatic guns and long range rifles. Why can't our politician see that there are different guns for different purposes and band, or at least strongly control, any weapon that could be used for mass murders! Gun violence has gotten OUT OF CONTROL!

90% of the crap (movies) that comes out of Hollywood features, and glorifies, guns. Watch a movie like Road to Perdition and you see scene after scene where people are blasting the crap out of someone with automatic guns just for the hell of it.
Many TV shows are the same way. This goes back to the old cowboy movies of 60-70 years ago. This is what the public has been fed as "entertainment", just to make a buck. Is there any wonder that we have a problem with public violence?

[Number 10 GI]

I have stated this before on similar threads and will say it again. We have a violence problem and banning the tools used by evil people won't eliminate violence. If there was a way to confiscate all the guns in the country evil people would use another tool to commit mayhem. Bludgeons are used in more homicides than rifles. Have we forgotten the Boston Marathon murderers who used black powder taken from fireworks and packed it into pressure cookers to make bombs???
People in this country need to look at our moral values, the effect of social media on young children, the effect of fatherless families on young males and a host of other social failings. This isn't going to happen because it will require a lot of effort and soul searching. It is easier to blame an inanimate object and give into juvenile emotional responses.
Do a bit of internet searching and you will find many, many reports of violence not involving guns that result in death. To quote Jack Nicholson's Marine Colonel character in A Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth!"

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Byte1

The problem is that when someone responds with an answer, if certain folks do not like the solution, it is immediately discounted as "that will never work."
Some folks say that they answer is guns in the hands of the good guys. I agree. I also believe that stricter penalties is a good deterrent. Unfortunately, then you have to consider that many "mass murderers" are merely performing a suicide by COP and no deterrent will work. Before anyone says that guns carried by good guys does not work, how about looking up the stats on how many lives have been saved every year by someone in possession of a gun. I believe it averages about a million per year are saved by a "good guy" with a gun.
When someone tell me that guns should be limited so they cannot be used to kill so many people in such a short time, I refer them to the fact that a revolver generally holds six rounds (bullets) and fires every time you pull the trigger until empty. A speed loader gives one the ability to reload in seconds. So, then you have someone like a certain person in D.C. that says a shot gun is all that is needed and that a warning shot in the air will solve the problem. Shot guns are also manufactured in the semi-automatic version, the pump version and the breech loaded style.
Now, consider home defense. If you home is being broken into by more than one perp. don't you want to even the odds of survival by having the ability to fire without reloading as much as you would if restricted by a six shot revolver or a shot gun? If the bad guys only had revolvers and were numbered two or more, they they would have twice the ability as you would, even if they were restricted by carrying only a revolver. Capacity of the gun the "good guy" is limited to, is not the answer either.
The fact really is that there is a very low number of folks killed by guns in America compared to the number of folks saved by guns, considering the amount of guns owned in the U.S. If not killed by guns, then by knives, cars, doctors, cancer, heart disease, etc. The only way to lower the killings is to scare the perpetrators into submission. Take away one instrument of murder and you only cause the person to find another. Blah, blah, blah, etc.

Thank you for an answer.

First, the thread, like so many lately, is about mass shootings. I agree the discussion of guns in general is much broader, but for mass shootings, I don't think there have been any cases of mass shooting stopped by a good guy with a gun. It might have happened, but it is't often compared to the 300+ mass shootings this year. There were a LOT of good guys standing around with gun at Uvalde and it didn't stop them, there were A LOT of good guys with guns in Illinois and he shot and got away (until chased down).

So, while I will agree there is certainly a valid argument to say that guns in the hands of good guys can help in self protection, but in mass shooting I don't know of any evidence - please correct me if I am wrong.

I think I have read many studies that show laws and law enforcement do not provide any deterrent to mass shootings. Personally, I would not be opposed to making sure we catch them alive, then lowering them slowly feet first into tree shredder and streaming the execution live on Youtube and on OTA TV. But, I expect we are too civilized to do that, but I expect it would have a deterrent on some of the shooters thinking about it. But, I expect they would be sure to commit suicide by cop before being caught.

Most murders are committed with hand guns, and most mass shootings are commit with AR-15's. I will agree before anyone pounces that if we somehow magically snapped our fingers and removed all AR-15s, the mass shooters would simply change to a new weapon of choice.

What I do know is that 8 of the top 10 states in the murders per capita race are Red and have the least amount of gun controls. What I don't know is how that relates, if it does to mass shootings.

What I don't see is any reason for NOT implementing universal gun controls that are designed to not restrict responsible law biding citizens from obtaining guns, if not more than say a short cooling off period. I am NOT saying this is a cure all, but I am saying it is something we could try without restricting people from getting guns while weeding out mental health issues, rage buying and shooting, domestic violence issues, etc.

I also see no reason why a person should not be able to be held accountable for a private sell to a person that can't pass a background check. Transfer of registration could require a background check at the expense of the buyer. So gun provenance being tracked to hold sellers responsible for selling illegally. Again that would have NO impact on legal lawful responsible buyers.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by TC_Arch

90% of the crap (movies) that comes out of Hollywood features, and glorifies, guns. Watch a movie like Road to Perdition and you see scene after scene where people are blasting the crap out of someone with automatic guns just for the hell of it.
Many TV shows are the same way. This goes back to the old cowboy movies of 60-70 years ago. This is what the public has been fed as "entertainment", just to make a buck. Is there any wonder that we have a problem with public violence?

Okay, so you hate violent movies. What you would suggest we do about that? Should we ban violence in moves?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Okay, so you hate violent movies. What you would suggest we do about that? Should we ban violence in moves?

Ok, so you hate mass shootings. What you would suggest we do about that? Should we ban guns? That post , given your views, seems a bit hypocritical.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

I have stated this before on similar threads and will say it again. We have a violence problem and banning the tools used by evil people won't eliminate violence. If there was a way to confiscate all the guns in the country evil people would use another tool to commit mayhem. Bludgeons are used in more homicides than rifles. Have we forgotten the Boston Marathon murderers who used black powder taken from fireworks and packed it into pressure cookers to make bombs???
People in this country need to look at our moral values, the effect of social media on young children, the effect of fatherless families on young males and a host of other social failings. This isn't going to happen because it will require a lot of effort and soul searching. It is easier to blame an inanimate object and give into juvenile emotional responses.
Do a bit of internet searching and you will find many, many reports of violence not involving guns that result in death. To quote Jack Nicholson's Marine Colonel character in A Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth!"

You are conflating all murders with mass shootings. Yes, violence will happen, but I feel safe saying zero out of the 300 mass shootings this year have been committed by Bludgeons.

The weapon of choice is AR-15. PERIOD. That is not debatable.

That said, I will agree with you that melting down every AR-15 in the country/world would not stop mass shootings, they would simply switch to another weapon.

I disagree with your comment that people don't want to look at morals and social media et al. I have read numerous reports on those issues. And for the most part they show that those "symptoms" that you list are represent in almost every country in the world. And the other countries do not have 300 mass shootings this year. So, the implication is they are NOT the cause.

I personally think the cause is a feeling of hopelessness by most poor and middle class Americans. I don't think I recall a rich person EVER committing a mass shooting in this country. They are typically by people with mental health issues (one could argue that to shoot 6 strangers for not apparent reason is a form of mental illness), or people that want to strike back at others that have bullied them, or men that feel they lives out of control and a significant number are coming from an abusive relationship where they abused their wives who finally left them and got restraining orders - again, a form of feeling like their life is out of control.

So, my question is why is it that so many feel so hopeless in the richest country in the world?

My answer is predatory capitalism, BIG corporations (not small ones) that control our lives, our government and our economy and leave broken people in their wake. That is what I think it is root cause.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

You are conflating all murders with mass shootings. Yes, violence will happen, but I feel safe saying zero out of the 300 mass shootings this year have been committed by Bludgeons.

The weapon of choice is AR-15. PERIOD. That is not debatable.

That said, I will agree with you that melting down every AR-15 in the country/world would not stop mass shootings, they would simply switch to another weapon.

I disagree with your comment that people don't want to look at morals and social media et al. I have read numerous reports on those issues. And for the most part they show that those "symptoms" that you list are represent in almost every country in the world. And the other countries do not have 300 mass shootings this year. So, the implication is they are NOT the cause.

I personally think the cause is a feeling of hopelessness by most poor and middle class Americans. I don't think I recall a rich person EVER committing a mass shooting in this country. They are typically by people with mental health issues (one could argue that to shoot 6 strangers for not apparent reason is a form of mental illness), or people that want to strike back at others that have bullied them, or men that feel they lives out of control and a significant number are coming from an abusive relationship where they abused their wives who finally left them and got restraining orders - again, a form of feeling like their life is out of control.

So, my question is why is it that so many feel so hopeless in the richest country in the world?

My answer is predatory capitalism, BIG corporations (not small ones) that control our lives, our government and our economy and leave broken people in their wake. That is what I think it is root cause.

Wouldn't have that problem in North Korea

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by charlie1

I used to be a hunter and really would not want anyone to stop me from having my hunting guns. I could even see the potential reason for personal handguns for self defense. BUT I do feel that there needs to be much more control on automatic guns and long range rifles. Why can't our politician see that there are different guns for different purposes and band, or at least strongly control, any weapon that could be used for mass murders! Gun violence has gotten OUT OF CONTROL!

We tend to be influenced by what we a fed in the news. First of all the term ASSAULT RIFLe endlessly wrongly used. An assault rifle is by definition an AUTOMATIC weapon. You need a special permit, virtually impossible to get to own an automatic weapon.

CAUSE AND EFFECT? The areas of our nation with the highest number of shootings-New York, Chicago, Los Angeles also have the tightest gun control laws. Laws by definition only effect law abiding people.

Obvious press bias. News where the criminal is stopped by a legal gun owner. Are there none? NO they just are not reported. Here in the Villages. I know several. Grandma who looks like Aunt Bea of Mayberry is a deadly shot and is carrying.

[Taurus510]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Of the 10 top states for Gun Murders, 8 are red with the least gun controls. The cities you mentioned are high population density which mean more things happen. But the highest RATES are 8 out of 10 red.

Care to share that list? Along with the cities inside those states that are causing those high rates? Wanna bet those are blue cities in those red states that cause those high rates?

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by JohnN

I agree with you 100%. Most politicians are bought off and vote their personal interests.

As frustrating as it often is. our for of government is a representative republic. We elect people who are supposed to represent us. We may not like who our fellow citizens voted for or how our ELECTED representatives vote on any issue.

We seek simple answers to all or most questions. Reality there are no simple or perfect answers and yet we demand, seek perfect answers.

We tend to think the issues are NEW-they are not. I think I am for not gun control but criminal control. Even that is not and cannot be a perfect answer. History shows uncontrolled power leads to those that do not agree with us, us is always we are perfect, are declared to be criminals. History, we've had witch trials, the colosseum, the holocaust, some interesting inventions, on the rack, properly done all will confess to anything.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Tvflguy

Every “Mass Shooting” someone simply MUST start a thread….

Yeah maybe if people stopped talking about it, everyone would stop caring about all those dead people and we can be happy again.

Because that is just - so logical.
/sarcasm

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Of the 10 top states for Gun Murders, 8 are red with the least gun controls. The cities you mentioned are high population density which mean more things happen. But the highest RATES are 8 out of 10 red.

That is called SPIN. When faced with reality change the question.