Thank you for the correction. I was just stating it in example scenario. But, you are correct with your terminology.

That is correct. TV's real estate salespeople don't need to belong to the NAR to cheat and lie to the buyer.

When buying a home, at anytime, you can drop one agent and get another. You have no contract with any of them. In fact, you can have several, if you want. No one can force you to work with them. So, is there an OFFICIAL buyers agent in Florida? I say no. If you say yes, we are just splitting hairs. It depends on one's definition. I have never had a buyer's agent. Just a man who saw $$$$ and kept following me from house to house. He didn't even negotiate terms, I did! Lol. If he wasn't there when I decided to buy, I would have contacted the listing agent. I would rather pay a good home inspector to follow me around. But, that's just me!

Thanks Brian, that's exactly how it works here in MA and what I was trying to describe. I may not have been clear that the numbers aren't set and the split can be uneven as you mentioned.

In Massachusetts there can be a contract with a buyers agent. If not there can just be an agent disclosure that one is acting as a buyers agent. If there is a contract it usually has a date set on it. Even if the buyer walks away from that agent but is under contract that buyer's agent will likely still get that share of the commission. Years ago this exact thing happened to me. I had a buyer's agent (It was my first house and I had no idea about these things). I walked away because I didn't like her. But she showed up at closing and got her money. She did nothing in the way of helping me except send me to the house the first time. But the basic ethics rules is that agent that had the contract has some rights via the board of realtors to that commission.

Even if there is no contract but that agent shows the buyer the house, that agent will get their share of the commission, regardless if the buyer then stops all contact with them. The first question an agent should be asking when they get a call from a buyer is, "Are you working with an agent." There are times buyers don't disclose this and it can cause issues with commissions.

ETA: This lawsuit will likely increase the amount of actual contracts between buyer's agents and buyers. Because it seems the buyers will have to pay their agent directly rather than from the proceeds of the sale. It doesn't really help anything. It becomes more complicated. Here's an example.

For easy math...
House is worth 500K. Old way, it is listed and sells for 500K. At closing the 2 realtors split the 25K commission (5%) that was set on the listing.

New way: Owner lists and sells for 500K. Seller pays their listing agent 12.5K. But the buyer is under contract to pay their agent 12.5K (obviously, this number is whatever they negotiate). But buyers don't always have thousands extra laying around at closing. So they will perhaps write an offer that asks for 12.5K back at closing. Similar to how buyers will ask for closing costs back at closing. In the end the seller took home 475K in both scenarios.

One benefit I could see is in competition among buyer's agents. If the commission is now set at the listing, the buyer can hire any agent. But if there is a contract with the buyer's agent that sets the commission, the buyer's agents can compete with lower commission/pay.

Commission
 

Area Realtors are getting a 5 to 6% commission. Does anyone know what The Villages commission is when they sell a preowned house?

?
 

Don't sellers just agree to 6 or 7% - in Texas I made my on contract and gave buying realtor 2% but she was great so upped it to 3.5.

Agreed! I remember as a child my aunt leaving Thanksgiving dinner because someone wanted her to show them a house! Personally my buyers agents have ensured the home we weee about to close on had grandmas China cabinet removed and other items the seller asked if we wanted. So many details are taken care of with a good buyers agent. Not to mention price negotiation!

Yes and both agents represent the seller because they both work for the Villages. The commission for selling a house has always been like that but now the value of houses has gone way up so commisions are out of line with the service you get.

They can only sell houses listed by the Villages who charges 6% to sell. I believe but not sure the agents each get 1% and the Villages pockets 4%. Even if they get the standard 1.5% the Villages pockets 3%. If the same agent lists and sells the house the Villages will only charge 5%, 2% to the agent and 3% to the Villages.

ChaaaaChing
 

The ole Company Store model. Let the cash just keep flowing in. It’s kind of like being a Ford dealership…sell it new…take it back for a trade in cut….sell it again lol. Except housing is required for most to live in, where cars hit the scrap heap eventually.

Just don’t forget to throw bone or two to the sales reps.

(Pondering…how much different is this from the NAR suit?)

CNN update with more lawsuits coming, and Mr Buffet, the old sage to whom people listen without great context, has invested in questionable companies. .

National Association of Realtors found liable for $1.8 billion in damages in conspiracy to keep commissions high | CNN Business

Redfin now a target for the joining the fray. . from the copycat lawsuits, which will be interesting.

Sold last home on Houzeo.com, cost $300, goes on Zillow and all others, zero commission or offered 2.5% to brokers.

Had plenty of brokers interested for 2.5% because that's what they would make a shared MLS listing

Real simple process

Sold house in 8 days after dropping listing with TV who never had an offer in three months.
I think they played bait and switch to new home same model

The article you link to is terrible. What’s going on is that the N.A.R. and half a dozen major companies, like Re/Max and Keller Williams, were sued with a class action suit over why a SELLER has to pay commission to the BUYER’s agent instead of the buyer paying that. We are talking 3% of the house sale cost going to that agent! Several companies settled out of court for many millions of dollars. The N.A.R. Did not, along with several other companies. They all lost and were hit with fines of, I think, $1.4 Billion, with a possibility of triple damages.

I think this only applies to home sales in Missouri, but I’m not sure. Before we celebrate, bear in mind that this would mean that as a seller, you would receive an extra 3%, but as a buyer, you would have to pay an extra 3% to the realtor. I’m not certain about that, but I assume buyers would be paying their agents for their help in some way.

The companies are of course appealing. It may not apply in Florida. Would you be receiving a check for that 3% you paid but shouldn’t have? Maybe. Would you be receiving a bill as a buyer from your own agent for that 3%? Unlikely, as it’s not in the contract. But few of us buy a home without also selling a home.

It's a lot different now.
 

When I was in real estate in the late 70's/early 80's there was a lot more work involved. Developing an accurate Market Analysis, advertising, maintaining a book of active buyers, cold calling, SHOWING homes to clients, etc. was all done by the agent so you worked for your commission. Now it's all done on the web. That's how I found my home in TV. The RE Industry needs to realign the structure now that this case has been settled. Otherwise, the backlash will be tremendous.:sigh:

The Real Life of a Realtor
 

I borrowed this from a friend.

The public has a lot of misconceptions of REALTORS.

The average FULL TIME REALTOR’s salary last year was $31,900 @ 40+ hours a week. (Notice I wrote full time 40+ hours not 0-20 hours a week) which is well below the living wage. As a REALTOR we do not get paid a hourly wage or salary and we only get paid if we sell a home and it closes. We can only get paid by broker to broker. As an agent you could work with someone days, weeks, months, or years with no guarantee of a sale ever.

Essentially we wake up each day unemployed going on Job Interviews and we deal with constant rejection. We dedicate time away from family, use our time, gas, pay for babysitters, miss dinner and weekends and seldomly take vacations. We are on 24/7! You constantly need to be on, or you could miss an opportunity. Once we do close a home, half goes to the other person’s agent from the remaining half. We have lots of upfront expenses that must be paid out before we even get paid.

Broker Splits and Fees
Office rent and utilities
MLS Fees
NAR Fees
Local Association Fees
E&O Business Insurance
Extended Auto Insurance
Self-Employment Tax
State Licensing Fees
Advertising Fees
Showing Service Fees
Website Fees
Assistant's Salaries
Showing partners
Transaction coordinator
Yard Signs
Photographers
Videographers
Office Supplies
Business Cards
Property Flyers
Electronic Lockboxes
Continued RE Education
Legal Fees
Gas

Income taxes are not taken out so we have to put that aside around 25-30%.

As a listing agent we have lots of tasks far more then just selling a home.

1. Prepare Listing Presentation for Sellers
2. Research Sellers Property Tax Info
3. Research Comparable Sold Properties for Sellers
4. Determine Average Days on Market
5. Gather Info From Sellers About Their Home
6. Meet With Sellers at Their Home
7. Get To Know Their Home
8. Present Listing Presentation
9. Advise on Repairs and/or Upgrades
10. Provide Home Seller To-Do Checklist
11. Explain Current Market Conditions
12. Discuss Seller’s Goals
13. Share Your Value Proposition
14. Explain Benefits of Your Brokerage
15. Present Your Marketing Options
16. Explain Video Marketing Strategies
17. Demonstrate 3D Tour Marketing
18. Explain Buyer & Seller Agency Relationships
19. Describe the Buyer Pre-Screening Process
20. Create Internal File for Transaction
21. Get Listing Agreement & Disclosures Signed
22. Provide Sellers Disclosure Form to Sellers
23. Verify Interior Room Sizes
24. Obtain Current Mortgage Loan Info
25. Confirm Lot Size from County Tax Records
26. Investigate Any Unrecorded Property Easements
27. Establish Showing Instructions for Buyers
28. Agree on Showing Times with Sellers
29. Discuss Different Types of Buyer Financing
30. Explain Appraisal Process and Pitfalls
31. Verify Home Owners Association Fees
32. Obtain a Copy of HOA Bylaws
33. Gather Transferable Warranties
34. Determine Need for Lead-Based Paint Disclosure
35. Verify Security System Ownership
36. Discuss Video Recording Devices & Showings
37. Determine Property Inclusions & Exclusions
38. Agree on Repairs to Made Before Listing
39. Schedule Staging Consultation
40. Schedule House Cleaners
41. Install Electronic Lockbox & Yard Sign
42. Set-Up Photo/Video Shoot
43. Meet Photographer at Property
44. Prepare Home For Photographer
45. Schedule Drone & 3D Tour Shoot
46. Get Seller’s Approval of All Marketing Materials
47. Input Property Listing Into The MLS
48. Create Virtual Tour Page
49. Verify Listing Data on 3rd Party Websites
50. Have Listing Proofread
51. Create Property Flyer
52. Have Extra Keys Made for Lockbox
53. Set-Up Showing Services
54. Help Owners Coordinate Showings
55. Gather Feedback After Each Showing
56. Keep track of Showing Activity
57. Update MLS Listing as Needed
58. Schedule Weekly Update Calls with Seller
59. Prepare “Net Sheet” For All Offers
60. Present All Offers to Seller
61. Obtain Pre-Approval Letter from Buyer’s Agent
62. Examine & Verify Buyer’s Qualifications
63. Examine & Verify Buyer’s Lender
64. Negotiate All Offers
65. Once Under Contract, Send to Title Company
66. Check Buyer’s Agent Has Received Copies
67. Change Property Status in MLS
68. Deliver Copies of Contact/Addendum to Seller
69. Keep Track of Copies for Office File
70. Coordinate Inspections with Sellers
71. Explain Buyer’s Inspection Objections to Sellers
72. Determine Seller’s Inspection Resolution
73. Get All Repair Agreements in Writing
74. Refer Trustworthy Contractors to Sellers
75. Meet Appraiser at the Property
76. Negotiate Any Unsatisfactory Appraisals
77. Confirm Clear-to-Close
78. Coordinate Closing Times & Location
79. Verify Title Company Has All Docs
80. Remind Sellers to Transfer Utilities
81. Make Sure All Parties Are Notified of Closing Time
82. Resolve Any Title Issues Before Closing
83. Receive and Carefully Review Closing Docs
84. Review Closing Figures With Seller
85. Confirm Repairs Have Been Made
86. Resolve Any Last Minute Issues
87. Attend Seller’s Closing
88. Pick Up Sign & Lock Box
89. Change Status in MLS to “Sold.”
90. Close Out Seller’s File With Brokerage

As a buyers agent we also have many tasks.

1. Schedule Time To Meet Buyers
2. Prepare Buyers Guide & Presentation
3. Meet Buyers and Discuss Their Goals
4. Explain Buyer & Seller Agency Relationships
5. Discuss Different Types of Financing Options
6. Help Buyers Find a Mortgage Lender
7. Obtain Pre-Approval Letter from Their Lender
8. Explain What You Do For Buyers As A Realtor
9. Provide Overview of Current Market Conditions
10. Explain Your Company’s Value to Buyers
11. Discuss Earnest Money Deposits
12. Explain Home Inspection Process
13. Educate Buyers About Local Neighborhoods
14. Discuss Foreclosures & Short Sales
15. Gather Needs & Wants Of Their Next Home
16. Explain School Districts Effect on Home Values
17. Explain Recording Devices During Showings
18. Learn All Buyer Goals & Make A Plan
19. Create Internal File for Buyers Records
20. Send Buyers Homes Within Their Criteria
21. Start Showing Buyers Home That They Request
22. Schedule & Organize All Showings
23. Gather Showing Instructions for Each Listing
24. Send Showing Schedule to Buyers
25. Show Up Early and Prepare First Showing
26. Look For Possible Repair Issues While Showing
27. Gather Buyer Feedback After Each Showing
28. Update Buyers When New Homes Hit the Market
29. Share Knowledge & Insight About Homes
30. Guide Buyers Through Their Emotional Journey
31. Listen & Learn From Buyers At Each Showing
32. Keep Records of All Showings
33. Update Listing Agents with Buyer’s Feedback
34. Discuss Home Owner’s Associations
35. Estimate Expected Utility Usage Costs
36. Confirm Water Source and Status
37. Discuss Transferable Warranties
38. Explain Property Appraisal Process
39. Discuss Multiple Offer Situations
40. Create Practice Offer To Help Buyers Prepare
41. Provide Updated Housing Market Data to Buyers
42. Inform Buyers of Their Showing Activity Weekly
43. Update Buyers On Any Price Drops
44. Discuss MLS Data With Buyers At Showings
45. Find the Right Home for Buyers
46. Determine Property Inclusions & Exclusions
47. Prepare Sales Contract When Buyers are Ready
48. Educate Buyer’s On Sales Contract Options
49. Determine Need for Lead-Based Paint Disclosure
50. Explain Home Warranty Options
51. Update Buyer’s Pre-Approval Letter
52. Discuss Loan Objection Deadlines
53. Choose a Closing Date
54. Verify Listing Data Is Correct
55. Review Comps With Buyers To Determine Value
56. Prepare & Submit Buyer’s Offer to Listing Agent
57. Negotiate Buyers Offer With Listing Agent
58. Execute A Sales Contract & Disclosures
59. Once Under Contract, Send to Title Company
60. Coordinate Earnest Money Drop Off
61. Deliver Copies to Mortgage Lender
62. Obtain Copy of Sellers Disclosure for Buyers
63. Deliver Copies of Contract/Addendum to Buyers
64. Obtain A Copy of HOA Bylaws
65. Keep Track of Copies for Office File
66. Coordinate Inspections with Buyers
67. Meet Inspector At The Property
68. Review Home Inspection with Buyers
69. Negotiate Inspection Objections
70. Get All Agreed Upon Repair Items in Writing
71. Verify any Existing Lease Agreements
72. Check In With Lender To Verify Loan Status
73. Check on the Appraisal Date
74. Negotiate Any Unsatisfactory Appraisals
75. Coordinate Closing Times & Location
76. Make Sure All Documents Are Fully Signed
77. Verify Title Company Has Everything Needed
78. Remind Buyers to Schedule Utilities
79. Make Sure All Parties Are Notified of Closing Time
80. Solve Any Title Problems Before Closing
81. Receive and Review Closing Documents
82. Review Closing Figures With Buyers
83.Confirm Repairs Have Been Made By Sellers
84. Perform Final Walk-Through with Buyers
85. Resolve Any Last Minute Issues
86. Get CDA Signed By Brokerage
87. Attend Closing with Buyers
88. Provide Home Warranty Paperwork
89. Give Keys and Accessories to Buyers
90. Close Out Buyer’s File Brokerage

Whew…exhausting isn’t it!?! 🤯

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I have bought & sold a few homes in my days. 2 properties I never paid a penny for commission, home & a rental property. 5 homes I paid half commission & on one home $300,000 I paid to a realtor $1000 to do everything! So it can be done & I don't have a lot of Education " Just Street Smarts "

It was like a train wreck, I couldn't quit looking!
I loved reading the posts though. I side with basic contract law 100%. After all, it's the law as we all know it.
Many of us have a lot of experience with buying and selling homes. We know the drill.

I guarantee that no agent had ever shown us or anyone in our family 70 homes. If I were that agent, I'd send that buyer to my biggest competitor.

Most people do a good part of their own due dilligence, thus the agents job for them by touring homes via the internet nowadays.

In days past, buyers rode by homes for sale and got the lay of the land, the presence and setback of the home and proximity to schools and other things of importance to them.

I'm just saying that an agent who is showing 70 homes is not par for the course.

If I were that agent, I would never have set out without a clear understanding of what the buyers needs, wishes and desires were before wasting everyone's time, especially my own.

But, as usual, this is just me and my work ethic philosophy. Time is money in the professional's workday.

They do. It's called "Stamp Duty". 5%-12% for primary residence (unless under £250,000, then it is 0%), or 3%-15% for investment property.

Why not ??
 

That’s called a transaction agent and yes your duty is to closing the transaction for both parties..

Wrong. A realtor can represent a seller or a buyer, but in most states cannot represent both at the same time on the same transaction. A realtor can in fact work with buyers. Where are you getting this information?

That's sad but true. In Florida, all agents work to achieve a closure for the transaction; the listing agent supposedly works for the seller--ha ha--but in reality noone represents buyer or seller, the agents are in collusion to get a sale completed. And get their commission

Technology Should Make Things Cheaper
 

I agree. Gone are the days of printing flyers and stapling them up, walking neighborhoods, going to courthouses for records, and the draining of resources to filter searches for a buyer. Most of the leg work now is done by computer. Commissions don’t need to be 50 thousand for the sale of a million dollar home. The handout is an insane amount.

WRONG

In 42 states, a BROKER can represent both a Buyer and a Seller at the same time (dual agency). That sounds like "most" to me?

Just a moment...

A "Realtor®" is a trademarked term. Not all brokers are Realtors®

To quote: "Where are you getting your information" ?

A buyers agent that colludes with a sellers agent and screws the client would quickly lose all their business. Word of mouth is strong. Good agents are ethical and provide proper guidance to their client. Shady agents don’t last long.

Pardon me for being mistaken. I used to be a Realtor a long time ago and how many states had dual agency wasn’t on the on the real estate exam. 😉
If you were paying attention, I was responding to the comment who suggested that a Realtor could not represent a buyer at all. This is in fact incorrect.
There is no need for you to get upset, but I’m sure you will get over it.

So, in the link you provided, Florida does not allow a dual agency.

They are, however, fully licensed Real Estate Agents.

We did. We went to The Villages sales office for our Lifetime visit and hooked up with an agent to help us find a pre-owned home. We didn't need it to be listed by The Villages, but we wanted a Villages rep to help us because they specialize in this specific community, they don't buy or sell for any other community, so they are more likely to know the answers to questions about this community.

The home we chose was listed by an outside real estate agent. Our agent didn't get a commission. He did the initial walk-through while we were up north, recommended a couple of folks to do the appraisal, helped us get in touch with our selected appraiser and set up appointments. He helped me make sense of the logistics of switching our Xfinity account AND plan since we were cutting the cord after the move. He even received a delivery of our brand new coffee machine the week before the closing, so we'd be able to enjoy a cuppa on our first morning in our new home.

He gave us a lovely gift bag, which was a Villages thermal grocery bag (the big funny-shaped supremely-padded ones with the top zipper), filled with Villages towels and other goodies, including a gift certificate for a free hanging address sign for our front light pole.

And he attended the closing, which was remarkable and incredibly appreciated, especially considering he wasn't allowed to earn a single dime in commission off our home purchase and they don't charge any fees for potential buyers to use their expertise when looking for resales.

Try getting a job selling homes here without a realtors license and let me know how that goes. Oh wait, you can’t nevermind.

They are always responsible to pay the commission. The cost of the commission is built into the sales price, therefore it is always the buyer who ends up paying it.

If the homeowner needs to clear $100,000, and their agent requires a 5% commission, then the homeowner needs to get a minimum $105,000 sales price. The buyer pays that $105,000 - the homeowner keeps the $100k and the extra $5k goes into the agent's pocket. OR it gets split between the agent and the buyer's agent, if they have one.

The decision on who gets the $5000 is between the listing agent and the buyer's agent, if there is one. They duke it out amongst themselves, but it's the buyer who's footing the bill only because it's built into the price they pay for the privilege of buying that house.

To clarify, there is no such thing as a "Realtors" license. Florida issues real estate licenses that allows people to sell houses for a commission. That is not a "Realtors" license, it is a real estate sales license. A Realtor is a member of the National Association of Realtors (NAR) which is a private association that has nothing to do with the state of Florida. The Properties of The Villages is a licensed Florida broker and is not a member of the NAR, and none of their sales agents are Realtors.

Not only can you, but you must. You don't need a "realtors license." But if you want to be employed by the Villages as a sales representative selling their homes, you must have a "real estate" license. "Realtor" is an official title. The owner of a real estate company can be a Realtor, and all his employees be "licensed real estate agents" without being Realtors themselves.

Realtors have different a different set of requirements than licensed real estate agents.

Now that is semantics. Legally, the entire commission is paid by the seller. Just read the settlement statement where the commission is listed on the seller's side of the statement. Whatever money changes hands between the brokers is a private agreement between them. Under contract law, the buyer could never sue the broker to get back a commission because he never paid a commission.

Why do folks who have little or no knowledge, insist on posting about subjects they know little or nothing about?

There is no such thing as a "REALTOR®" license. A REALTOR® is simple a Broker, who joins the National Association of Realtors and agrees to adhere to their ethical requirements ... and pays their fees every year.

There is no way to be a REALTOR®, without belonging to the Association and paying dues.

In most states, there are two levels of Real Estate "professionals". Sales People and Brokers. There are no states that offer a License as a "Realtor" ... that's a made up word, by the Nation Association of Realtors.

Think of them as the difference between a Master Plumber and a Journeyman Plumber. The Journeyman can do most every job the Master can do, but he can't have any employees working under him. A Real Estate Salesperson can do most anything a Broker can do, but must work under the auspices of a Broker.

In most states, a non-licensed person can work directly for a Developer or Home Builder, selling homes or property.

I did not state my so-called "buyers agent" did not receive a commission. I said he did nothing to earn it. All he did was follow me around. He didn't even negotiate the terms. Without him, I would have just contacted the listing agent and finalized the deal with him. Easy, peasy! I did not need a middle man who took it upon himself to state that he was my agent. If I wanted someone representing me, it would be a lawyer or a home inspector.

I owe the agent following me around NOTHING. If the listing agent shares his commission with him, that is a separate deal that I AM NOT a part of.

Therefore, I never had a buyers agent. Just a man following me around waiting to get paid for merely showing up.

A buyer does not have to pay an agent. EVER! He or she can contact the listing agent and proceed from there.

IMHO, This is the ethical way for agents to sell homes. If a buyer approaches or contacts you wanting to see a property that IS NOT your listing, you must say so. Then immediately contact the listing agent and tell him that a buyer is interested in seeing his listing. 'When can you meet with him?" Is that too hard? If so, give the interested buyer the listing agent's contact information. Then say, "nice meeting you!"

I tried to explain this by using a car dealership as an example. A sales representative assists you while you are looking at cars in his shop. He does not follow you to every dealership waiting for you to buy. Then say, "Hey! You owe me commission! I am her agent." If this example sounds silly to you, then the practice of a buyer's agent is just as silly.


I hope the practice of a buyers agent is banned in all states. If banned, this will save sellers quite a bit of money by not having to pay high commissions.

That's because the only time the commission is paid, is AFTER the sale has closed. At that point, the buyer ceases to be the buyer and becomes the homeowner. And the commission was built into the price he paid for the home. It's in the contract. The sales price INCLUDES the commission.

Why are you calling me out for not knowing what I'm talking about, when you just said the same thing I did, but with more words?

If you COULD look at the MLS. In most states that is proprietary to Realtors.

A buyer DOES NOT HAVE A CONTRACT The commission is something the seller agreed to pay from the sales when signing a contract with an agent. It is the seller's expense.

The buyer throughout the entire process has no idea what commission was paid and to whom. They are never a part of that. It is possible there is a clause in the seller's contract that states zero commission paid if home does not sell at agreed upon price.