Been reading lots of international media lately and they seem to have begun to catch up with what our country is doing.

Experts have been concerned about this for many years and scientists have been warning and urging governments to take action to prevent exactly what exists.

Geo Bush admin took it seriously and took action, setting up a task force of scientists to advise and guide being prepared. This task force existed through the next administration and then was dismissed out of hand by the last administration. That action made our country one of the most ill prepared countries in the world to deal with this kind of thing.

When COVID made its appearance our administration played it down and even trivialized the real dangers. The United States then pulled the US out of WHO and halted any contribution to the effort. That administration then began to mock anyone taking it seriously, insulting scientists and offering “back room” fixes to people which killed more. The administration refused to accept or even display the actions recommended by experts, thus the United States lost any chance of being a leader in this worldwide fight.

Then the United States government ruined this thing into strictly a political issue. While WHO was investigating, the United States began an intensive role in, as always, placing blame with accusations about China. As the United States simply layed blame with no cause….the President calling it the “China Virus”.

Now it is politics and more politics…….people booing suggestions to wear masks or get vaccinated, none based on professional advice, but more political folks.

Being an elected official does not grant special scientific knowledge at all, and we are continuing the already begun fight among and against our own country.

We can’t even allow someone to get medical assistance in many areas because of lack of rooms or beds. Schools in some areas lack teachers, bus drivers, etc. It is mass confusion in general, and while we appear to have the attitude of “kids are ok…they will just get sick” and all I recall is the past administration saying this was a hoax, then it will just go away and many other excuses and then suddenly so many people have died.

Let’s hope this talk from the same folks who proclaimed a hoax and not a problem are, for the first time, correct.

You need to read my post again. I said I disbelieve "MOST" of what I hear and read. Because it has been my experience that the majority of what comes our way is said by people that have their own agenda, first and foremost, and they operate from that platform.
And God says "I gave you an intellect, you did not use it. Instead of using the intelligence I gave you, you let yourself be fooled by those who need to save their own face and are motivated by greed. That's why your dying"

Absolutely amazed at how many people sit by and wait to be told what to think by "experts", instead of listening to experts on all sides (before there was censorship) and using your own intellect to come to a conclusion. Perhaps I should not be too amazed, how else would shows like The View and Don Lemon be so popular if people used their own brains.

OK, I am a New Yorker. I do not consider forcing covid infected people into Assisted living facilities with the most at risk to be a wonderful job. His decision caused many thousands of deaths. He then lied and created a cover up to try and keep his failure a secret. Such a wonderful leader? I think not.

Politics is basically a popularity contest. Politicians, most of them will mess with the truth at the very least.

Almost no politicians have the character of successful and good people who we know well who have the remarkable good sense to not be in any popularity contests.

But that is how we run this country.

And the onesided media holds the reporting of news by their vulnerable parts.

Now wait.

Wait.

Y'all know what will happen next.

I agree, some peoples posts (like the one you referenced) are so divisive, nasty and foolish. Thank you Thank You Thank You that they are not my neighbors.

You weren't listening...I wasn't talking about that, I was referencing the daily update, which btw, the whole nation watched.

Such a dilemma, sick covidelderly, removed from hospital... what to do with them? Their families didn't care, otherwise THEY would of taken them, so he sent back to their "listed" home address... the nursing homes(it's a care facility)....not the street.
Now the ones that closed their doors on gramma want to sue....what a surprise.

You know....thinking about it, you might be right. Always the same people try to turn it around and this thread is no different.

I respectfully disagree with this statement...

“Almost no politicians have the character of successful and good people who we know well who have the remarkable good sense to not be in any popularity contests.”


And also disagree totally with this...

“And the onesided media holds the reporting of news by their vulnerable parts.”



BOTH are simply recent additions to the demise of our country.

If you really believe what you said, must be frustrating to even get out of bed in the morning.

No, all politicians are honest, moral, etc. but the United States is replete with resignations because of honor, parties preventing nominations because of character.

And I can net recall even one instance of an elected official passing him or herself off as someone who is to decide any scientific issue, yet to dare lie about it. G Bush comes to mind and the anguish he went through making a decision on stem cell research.

No, I have much more confidence in our system than you. It is limping right now, and has and is under attack for a few years, and surprising to me even, openly with no qualms.

I prefer my country to any one leader, and trust my country. I can see lies, and I can see hypocritical behavior on any side, and mostly will fight for my country, and never give up. What we are experiencing in this pandemic behavior is simply unamerican. The lies, accusation and hate defended on this forum and other places is unforgivable and certainly will be not be forgotten.

You are correct a handful of posters try to get a thread shut down if it doesn’t fit their political narrative. Their posts are often long, obtuse, lacking facts and frequent. They try to draw you into off topic side issues. There is lots of evidence both direct and circumstantial that the virus was man made and the OP is correct. A full investigation is warranted.

The COVID lab-leak hypothesis: what scientists do and don’t know

This has a pretty thorough discussion of this topic.

First, I agree with the investigation part of your post. It has been done by various groups, and certainly should/will be many more. Problem is, on this forum the reliance is on theories grounded not in facts in evidence or even mentioned.

If Dr Faucci lied so many times to Congress, there is no penalty great enough to cover how I feel. Nothing in these links show anything.

As far as posts are concerned, this has been made political and not by me. Look back to spring of 2020 to find that birth. When the posts join a campaign of politics to accuse over and over, no matter the facts, it is hard to escape. I trust the moderators are able to easily choose those posts that don’t even try to address the thread title.

I've read enough of your posts to know the phrase 'without merit' means any post that doesn't agree with you.

Might surprise you but there are other experts out there that know as much or more than Fauci.

Do you even realize how circular your reasoning is?

I don't rely on my own logic and common sense but my logic and common sense tells me.....

Great link.

But, it will not be received well on this forum should any of these folks decide to read it.

Great read. We all want an answer, and this read shows those who care have been and are totally invested in getting the truth.

That includes Dr Faucci, if anyone reads.

There was a reason his Pulitzer prize was taken away.

The self agenda and greed by our politicians has been going on for decades. IMO, anyone who goes to Washington, with honesty and integrity, will soon be, literally, squashed. I suggest you view the 1939 film, "Mr. Smith goes to Washington", Staring Jimmy Stuart and Jean Arthur. That film depicts the "Tip of the iceberg", for what is happening today. Don't misunderstand, I LOVE my country, but I am beginning to fear my government, and I mean both major parties.

On this forum, so many have been taught, and really believe that creating villains, attacking them personally will lead to power.

Guess it will take no more villains and anyone to hate to stop that. It has certainly pushed our country to the back over the past years. No ideas for the country, but lots of proven unsubstantiated accusations and hate does not make for growth of our country.

I do not fear my government, but do fear those who attack it constantly and as a matter of course. Change in direction, when needed, has a route. It is not public accusations and hate, but requires LISTENING and discussing with the aim being what is best for the country, not simple political power.

And if I recall in the movie you reference voters would not tolerate lying in public under any circumstance. Although long time since I saw it. And those who wanted only raw power short on ideas were not tolerated

And the other lesson in the movie you reference......do not fear the government, but fear those voters who send the wrong people to serve., and those who are privileged to serve need to be held accountable.

We wouldn't expect anything less from you.

Murdoch does not hide his goals and aims.

I believe that I read that here in the US, some cats, dogs, and even a tiger in a zoo (I think San Diego) have DEVELOPED CV. So, if it can cross species lines from human to lower mammals - it IS likely that it could go from lower species to human.

People change their minds often. It often depends on the way their friends feel, their social circle. Change is part of life - fashion changes. If people's minds never changed, we would still be spinning "hula hoops" from the 1950s - as an obscure example.

very interesting. thx for sharing

At times I think there is a differential between how often a persons posts and how emphatic the post and how to weigh the information given, we all have opinions some more strongly held than others , and the stronger the opinions we hold the more they need to be self examined carefully

I've read that article and re-read it today. On the surface it looks pretty good and gives arguments both ways and concludes there isn't enough info one way or the other. There are some issues with it however.

I do wish it had addressed information provided by Dr. Li-Meng Yan. She's the Chinese virologist that defected to the US. She claims without a doubt the virus was man made AND released intentionally. Her information certainly should have been included in an article such as this one.

Also, there are studies out claiming the genome sequencing of this virus has never been seen occurring naturally in any other covid viruses. Your article relies on Kristen Anderson to refute those claims. She, however, is somewhat suspect.

Here's what she initially wrote about the virus back in January, 2020:

"One has to look really closely at all the sequences to see that some
of the features (potentially) look engineered . . . . Eddie [Holmes],
Bob [Garry], Mike [Ferguson] and myself all find the genome
inconsistent with evolutionary theory."

3 days later AFTER a conference call with Fauci she states:

"The main crackpot theories going around at the moment relate to
this virus being somehow engineered . . . and that is demonstrably
not the case."

No one has come up with any additional studies or work she did justifying the change in her findings.

I still lean towards man made. Released intentionally or not? Still up in the air but I look at what country has benefitted the most economically. I also look at what country benefits the most politically from having other countries in upheaval and turmoil due to severe in-fighting. I think the answer points to only source.

All the great Dictators in world History have gained personal power by using weaker groups to step on. Intensifying the search for the "origins" of Covid 19 allows power to accumulate to individuals and small groups by blaming China - create a "bogeyman" and then squash them - thus making yourself WONDERFUL and BLAMELESS!

This story was broken by The Intercept, who filed the FOIA that resulted in release of these documents. The Intercept is definitely a left leaning organization.

The reason I posted link to NY Post is because they had an actual screenshot of one of the relevant parts of the documents.

The third link I posted was to Washington Post article, which has info on how gain of function research controls have been subverted and weakened.

So the original scoop was delivered by a left leaning website with some principals, more info given by left leaning WAPO, and you choose to discount the whole story because of a link to NY Post that had actual screenshot of one of the documents. :shocked:

Chinese scientists created COVID-19 in a lab and then tried to cover their tracks, new study claims | Daily Mail Online
Covid was most likely created in a lab. Here is why.

But as an alt left communist liberal democrat I do not like the facts presented by the NYPost. I am sorry but I must say, since it shows I am biased, I must say that the paper is not credible.

Stop with the political BS please, it has no place in this thread. If you would like to understand the issues, you might start with this guy, who has read all 200 pages of the FOIA documents and is eminently qualified to provide expert comments.

Molecular biologist Dr. Richard H. Ebright, PhD

Board of Governors Professor of Chemistry and Chemical Biology at Rutgers University, Dr. Richard H. Ebright, PhD, is also Laboratory Director at the Waksman Institute of Microbiology and serves as project leader on two National Institutes of Health research grants.

Dr. Richard Ebright received his AB in Biology and his PhD in Microbiology and Molecular Genetics from Harvard University. He has more than one hundred sixty publications and more than forty issued and pending patents. He is member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and a Fellow of the American Association for Advancement of Science, the American Academy of Microbiology, and the Infectious Diseases Society of America.

I have been reading articles by Dr Ebright and following his twitter account for over a year, and have seen zero evidence of political bias. He is a true scientist in every respect.

First, a Twitter thread by Dr Enbright after he read the documents. Read all his comments at link below.


Richard H. Ebright
@R_H_Ebright
·
Sep 6
The documents make it clear that assertions by the NIH Director, Francis Collins, and the NIAID Director, Anthony Fauci, that the NIH did not support gain-of-function research or potential pandemic pathogen enhancement at WIV are untruthful.

https://mobile.twitter.com/R_H_Ebrig...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Second, an interview of Dr Ebright from March 26, 2021

Excerpts:

There are three lines of circumstantial evidence that are worth noting.

First, the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, a city of 11 million persons that does not contain horseshoe-bat colonies, that is tens of kilometers
from, and that is outside the flight range of, the nearest known horseshoe-bat colonies. Furthermore, the outbreak occurred at a time of year when horseshoe bats are in hibernation and do not leave colonies.

Second, the outbreak occurred in Wuhan, on the doorstep of the laboratory that conducts the world’s largest research project on horseshoe bat viruses, that has the world’s largest collection of horseshoe-bat viruses, and that possessed and worked with the world’s closest sequenced relative of the outbreak virus. The laboratory actively searched for new horseshoe-bat viruses in horseshoe-bat colonies in caves in remote rural areas in Yunnan province, brought those new horseshoe-bat viruses to Wuhan, and then mass-produced, genetically manipulated, and studied those new horseshoe-bat viruses, year-round, inside Wuhan.

Third, the bat-SARS-related-coronavirus projects at the Wuhan Institute of Virology used personal protective equipment (usually just gloves; sometimes not even gloves) and biosafety standards (usually just biosafety level 2) that would pose very high risk of infection of field-collection, field-survey, or laboratory staff upon contact with a virus having the transmission properties of SARS-CoV-2.

But Dr. Ralph Baric, who is considered the US leading expert in coronavirus, so he probably is the world one, says that is possible to engineer a virus in a lab without leaving a trace of the manipulation.

The fact that the genome sequence of this virus shows no signatures of human manipulation rules out the kinds of gain-of-function (GoF) research that leave signatures. But this does not rule out kinds of GoF research that do not leave signatures

An interview with Richard Ebright: The WHO investigation members were 'participants in disinformation'

No, that's not the way it works. Although many people nowadays think their pets are human but they're not. :rolleyes:

Well stated. I believe she and other experts will be called to testify when a full investigation is undertaken in two years.

Yes, in the short time I've been a poster on this forum I've sensed a "leaning".

The reality is this: I had to pay $50,000 more for my small house in TV than I would have 2 or 3 months before, and why? Because, as my realtor told me, there was a mass exodus in the spring of residents from certain states, desperate to avoid the encroaching COVID mandates, corrosive politics, high taxes (and more to come!) and legislation that had made their states uninhabitable, over-priced basket cases. The realtor told me they'd never seen anything like it, the desperation to get out of said states in a hurry. I don't think those with certain leanings would be clawing tooth and nail to live in Gov. DeSantis' Florida. I'd like to see this forum reflect the reality of TV a little more instead of punishing those who wish to speak their mind freely.

Li-Meng Yan - Wikipedia

She looks like a hack scientist. She was used for political ends and and very willingly it looks like. She also seems to have little integrity and her scientific work has a very poor reputation.

and that's probably why Fauci included her on a conference call with other scientists to push his agenda.

When did he do that? Fauci has many eyes on him as well as ears and would probably want to keep a good reputation.

Dr. Fauci says scientists in secret February 2020 call said COVID was 'possibly an engineered virus'

Feb 1, 2020

also
Fauci on COVID origins, lab leaks, emails and a call with scientists

Oh, and he didn't tell anyone on the WH taskforce about the call.

I missed where either of these article mention Li-Meng Yan.

There is an unflattering wikipedia article about her. (EDIT: Just noticed the wikipedia link was already provided)