[sallybowron]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

I sure would not go to any game where they would not play our anthem.

Judge people according to the times they lived in not our time.

I agree

[TomPerrett]

Maybe it’s actually true.
It’s on the internet must be true.
Bonjour

[Brynnie]

If not us, then who?

[Curtisbwp]

It is NOT the statues, the songs, or anything else that has to be erased from our history, it is the America hateing rabble rousers who have to go.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Curtisbwp

It is NOT the statues, the songs, or anything else that has to be erased from our history, it is the America hateing rabble rousers who have to go.

1. The statues are not part of our history. They are symbolic representations of history that happened long before the statue was ever built.

2. Most people don't know more than the first stanza of the Star Spangled Banner. If it was such a big deal, we ALL would have memorized the entire thing when we were kids. The entire thing wasn't even taught. That is how UNimportant it was, and has always been.

3. The documentation of our history still exists, and is still kept safe in museums and national archives. When was the last time you went to see one? Or have you never bothered?

[JerryLBell]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I for one wouldn't miss it. It's a poorly-written song that is very difficult for most people to sing on key. It's not even a good poem. I'd love to see something new. I don't care who wrote it, it doesn't offend me in the least. It's just a bad song and I'd really hate to think that after over 200 years, that's the best we could do.

I've heard a number of people over the years complain that this was the national anthem instead of "America The Beautiful" or even "This Land Is Your Land". I know I can't carry a tune with a bucket and parts of "The Star Spangled Banner" are WAY beyond my poor capabilities. And judging from many people I've heard sing it, it was beyond theirs as well.

[OhioBuckeye]

Originally Posted by Northwoods

It looks like the Star Spangled Banner is next. An Op Ed in the LA Times says Francis Scott Key was a slave owner so the song has to go. After all, the statue of Francis Scott Key was toppled by protesters in Golden Gate Park.
Major League Soccer announced that the anthem would not be played before games when its season resumed in July following the coronavirus lockdown. A petition posted on Change.org advocated dropping the song as the national anthem, pointing to “elitist, sexist, and racist” verses in Key’s poem, “Defence of Fort M’Henry,” from which “The Star-Spangled Banner” was adapted.
Here's the Op Ed.
Replace The Star-Spangled Banner with a new national anthem - Los Angeles Times

Well they better check what bills they have in their bill folds! They better get rid of them. Why doesn't our govt. step up & tell them just don't have soccer games. Can't believe that we're bowing down to these racist blacks! I'm not saying that all black people are bad, some of my very best friends are black. Just can't believe our govt. is so wishy washy or maybe it's our legal system. We'll be communist America in 3 yrs. & our legal system is bowing down to this.

In reply to Fdpaq0580

I didn't want to waste my time debating with an old, stuck in the past citizen but I guess I'll waste it anyway.

You say the meaning you come away with is that the slaves were not American slaves and that makes the song ok. American blacks shouldn't mind having this song as their national anthem. You did leave out the verse "From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave". From what I've read, this means that the slave is running scared and they will eventually be killed.

You also state that I'm unable or unwilling to understand the context/circumstances of the times in which those things happened.

You go on to talk about destroying the evidence of history, radicals, extremists destroying temples and educational materials that show the truth of history.

You close by saying you're more reasonable and your interpretation is more likely the truth. You want me to think about it and not to dismiss it because it doesn't fit the narrative.

You think you know me and that I'm too stupid and unwilling to learn the truth as you see it. I'm an extremists and I want to destroy history to fit my narrative.

You got all of this data from my comment that supports black Americans wanting to change the national anthem that was written by a slave owner. A man that spent his life going after blacks and anyone that supported their freedom. A song that in a verse glorifies hunting down and killing slaves.

I wonder how the Jewish feel about anti-semitic songs? I already know that answer, they exist and they hate them. I wonder if they wouldn't mind a national anthem that said "gas all the jews" or "cut their throats". I guess if the song was old then, it's their history and it would be considered "extremists" behavior to object to it. Or, a national anthem written by Hitler that had a verse about killing Jewish people. Even if that verse was not sung anymore I think they would still object to it.

My "narrative" is not defined by you. I don't want to change history, I want to change the present. I don't want to destroy temples or educational materials. I don't see myself as an extremist with radical views. I see myself as a person with compassion for anyone that feels like a second class citizen.

I am willing to change my opinion as the facts come in and grow as a person.

[Northwoods]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

1. The statues are not part of our history. They are symbolic representations of history that happened long before the statue was ever built.

2. Most people don't know more than the first stanza of the Star Spangled Banner. If it was such a big deal, we ALL would have memorized the entire thing when we were kids. The entire thing wasn't even taught. That is how UNimportant it was, and has always been.

3. The documentation of our history still exists, and is still kept safe in museums and national archives. When was the last time you went to see one? Or have you never bothered?

Well... I've been to most Smithsonian museums, Battle of Little Big Horn, Holocaust museum in DC, walked the Freedom Traill, etc. Not sure what else... but I may have been there too.

You can't judge history by today's standards. If we do, then we pretty much have to erase every "leader" (political and business) up until about 20 years ago.

Washington, Jefferson, etc. all owned slaves. So we have to change money, tear down the Washington monument and Jefferson memorial. Close Mount Vernon and Monticello.

Do we ignore everything they contributed to our history because they were victims of their time in history?

If I see a statue of Jefferson Davis, I understand his place in history. I don't admire or revere him. But I guess we have to "erase" him.

If so, we also have to erase every business leader up to 20 years ago, because women, minorities and LGBTQ pretty much hit that glass ceiling and weren't promoted to senior positions.

Do we "erase" it? Or do we just understand the positive and negative of what happened in the past?

[nn0wheremann]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I for one wouldn't miss it. It's a poorly-written song that is very difficult for most people to sing on key. It's not even a good poem. I'd love to see something new. I don't care who wrote it, it doesn't offend me in the least. It's just a bad song and I'd really hate to think that after over 200 years, that's the best we could do.

Agreed. How about God Bless America, or better yet, America The Beautiful?

[bpascani]

I have banished NFL years ago. If I choose to go to a college football game, (which I LOVE to do!), if they play anything else... I will be taking a knee, and sing our National Anthem right along, with my hand over my heart, and I will take my small flag out of my purse when I do. I think that's called freedom of speech, which is totally in these days, on many subjects and fronts, yes??

[Nucky]

The Accurate Story Behind the Star Spangled Banner - YouTube

I like this one best. If you don't care for it. Tough Toot's!

[tvbound]

Originally Posted by Bikeracer2009

In reply to Fdpaq0580

I didn't want to waste my time debating with an old, stuck in the past citizen but I guess I'll waste it anyway.

You say the meaning you come away with is that the slaves were not American slaves and that makes the song ok. American blacks shouldn't mind having this song as their national anthem. You did leave out the verse "From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave". From what I've read, this means that the slave is running scared and they will eventually be killed.

You also state that I'm unable or unwilling to understand the context/circumstances of the times in which those things happened.

You go on to talk about destroying the evidence of history, radicals, extremists destroying temples and educational materials that show the truth of history.

You close by saying you're more reasonable and your interpretation is more likely the truth. You want me to think about it and not to dismiss it because it doesn't fit the narrative.

You think you know me and that I'm too stupid and unwilling to learn the truth as you see it. I'm an extremists and I want to destroy history to fit my narrative.

You got all of this data from my comment that supports black Americans wanting to change the national anthem that was written by a slave owner. A man that spent his life going after blacks and anyone that supported their freedom. A song that in a verse glorifies hunting down and killing slaves.

I wonder how the Jewish feel about anti-semitic songs? I already know that answer, they exist and they hate them. I wonder if they wouldn't mind a national anthem that said "gas all the jews" or "cut their throats". I guess if the song was old then, it's their history and it would be considered "extremists" behavior to object to it. Or, a national anthem written by Hitler that had a verse about killing Jewish people. Even if that verse was not sung anymore I think they would still object to it.

My "narrative" is not defined by you. I don't want to change history, I want to change the present. I don't want to destroy temples or educational materials. I don't see myself as an extremist with radical views. I see myself as a person with compassion for anyone that feels like a second class citizen.

I am willing to change my opinion as the facts come in and grow as a person.

"A song that in a verse glorifies hunting down and killing slaves."


You are correct. Further research of a missing verse in his poem, also shows what Key thought about slaves and black people.

The Missing Verse of The Star Spangled Banner That May Change Your View Of Our Anthem. - YouTube

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Bikeracer2009

In reply to Fdpaq0580

I didn't want to waste my time debating with an old, stuck in the past citizen but I guess I'll waste it anyway.

You say the meaning you come away with is that the slaves were not American slaves and that makes the song ok. American blacks shouldn't mind having this song as their national anthem. You did leave out the verse "From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave". From what I've read, this means that the slave is running scared and they will eventually be killed.

You also state that I'm unable or unwilling to understand the context/circumstances of the times in which those things happened.

You go on to talk about destroying the evidence of history, radicals, extremists destroying temples and educational materials that show the truth of history.

You close by saying you're more reasonable and your interpretation is more likely the truth. You want me to think about it and not to dismiss it because it doesn't fit the narrative.

You think you know me and that I'm too stupid and unwilling to learn the truth as you see it. I'm an extremists and I want to destroy history to fit my narrative.

You got all of this data from my comment that supports black Americans wanting to change the national anthem that was written by a slave owner. A man that spent his life going after blacks and anyone that supported their freedom. A song that in a verse glorifies hunting down and killing slaves.

I wonder how the Jewish feel about anti-semitic songs? I already know that answer, they exist and they hate them. I wonder if they wouldn't mind a national anthem that said "gas all the jews" or "cut their throats". I guess if the song was old then, it's their history and it would be considered "extremists" behavior to object to it. Or, a national anthem written by Hitler that had a verse about killing Jewish people. Even if that verse was not sung anymore I think they would still object to it.

My "narrative" is not defined by you. I don't want to change history, I want to change the present. I don't want to destroy temples or educational materials. I don't see myself as an extremist with radical views. I see myself as a person with compassion for anyone that feels like a second class citizen.

I am willing to change my opinion as the facts come in and grow as a person.

Thank you for wasting your time debating (educating) an old (I am) stuck in the past citizen like me.
You are correct when you say that I don't know you. I just went back and re-read the post that you responded to. It seems that you interpreted my "you can't change history" as "you" specific when it was intended as "you" generic. I was never attacking you personally, and I apologize for not making myself more clear.
As to my alternative interpretation, it was intended to demonstrate that by reading the same thing twice one can sometimes see things from a different perspective and come away with a different meaning.
As it was back in the 1960's and 1970's, this is a another pivotal time for us in this country. We all need to be willing to listen and learn from one another. It is my belief and my hope that someday this will be a nation that includes and values all of its people, a true melting pot where all cultures are celebrated.
As to me not defining your narrative, only you can do that. I also don't want to debate with you. To me a debate is fighting with words. I prefer to discuss. Discussion is an open and honest exchange of thoughts and ideas. You have much to share with others who have had life experiences different from yours. Keep learning and keep teaching.
Your last sentence, "I am willing to change my opinion as the facts come in and grow as a person" really resonated with me. That is how we all should be.

Stay safe. Stay well. Peace!

[Bay Kid]

Isn't the Black National Anthem racists? I know for sure if they played a White National Anthem, which there is none, that would be racist.