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I don't believe in public sector unions at all. We should have a more direct control of our tax dollars and being able to terminate bad apples quickly should be at the forefront of that control.
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Okay - I'm going to give you a real life example that I lived through with the FOP and the union and their defense of an accused police officer. January 2019. A police officer was the second on scene of a domestic issue, I'll call him Cliff. A drunk and high woman was, let's say acting out, at her "baby daddy's" home, demanding immediate physical custody of their 5 year-old daughter. The solution decided by the on scene commander was to remove the woman from the scene. Showing a bit of compassion, he chose to relocate her rather than arrest her. Cliff, deciding not to just drive her down the street and dump her at the 7-11, because she would just walk back to the scene and start up again, offered her a ride to the metro (subway) station so she could get home. She didn't have any money, having spent it all on a taxi to take her to another county to get to the scene. Upon arriving at the station and parking under a security camera at 5:30 in the morning, the woman refused to get out of the cruiser. Cliff offers to call a friend to come get her if she didn't want to take the metro. He calls the friend (with his number blocked) and leaves voice message. He calls back a few minutes later and the friend answers. Cliff gets out of the cruiser and walks a few feet away and offers the phone to the woman -- which gets her out of the cruiser, which he immediately locks. The woman talks to her friend on the phone, with people walking by, into the station to get the metro to go to work. When she is done, she demands Cliff take her all the way home - to a county outside his jurisdiction and he refuses. She asks for money to ride the metro and he gives her a $ rather than just totally leave her stranded. She then tells him "if you leave me here, you'll regret it." And Cliff drives off. Ninety minutes later, while finishing up his shift, Cliff gets a call to come straight away to the station. Upon arrival, he is swabbed for dna, his uniform, weapon, credentials, cruiser, etc., is confiscated and he's told he's under suspension due to an accusation of 'inappropriate touching' -- the actual description is over the top, but that's the category used. Allegedly all this touching, by the woman, who was wearing long pants, occurred in the front seat and in the back seat of the cruiser, in the metro parking lot, under the camera, and while all these people were walking by, and she was under NO restraints. The woman walks into the metro station and makes the accusation and is rushed off to a hospital for all kinds of testing. This is in today's world of the phone camera, where anyone would have heard any screams or seen any kind of scuffle, etc... yet there is no one reporting anything, no one filming anything - nothing. Okay - Cliff is sent off to suspension land to guess what the H is going on; having been officer of the year the previous year and awarded a medal of valor for stepping into a shoot-out to save a toddler's life. He must undergo psych therapy, wear civilian clothes to work at a desk job, be buzzed in and out of the office, give up ALL off-duty work and sit at a desk where all he can do is answer the phone and call someone in off the street if a report needs to be taken. Metro says they have jurisdiction to investigate and his own IA can't investigate until metro is finished. Of course the hospital tests reveal all kinds of 'activity' by the woman, but none of the 4 dna's they gather match Cliff's. A multitude of illicit drugs and an elevated level of alcohol are also found. By the next day, the local media catches wind and runs out to the metro to interview random people, telling them of the broad accusation and recording their shock at such behavior by the police. This is played on tv for several days, along with teasers that say "see the evidence at 9". I have recorded all those shows, and am still waiting to see any evidence related to the case. Okay - Cliff asks for an attorney as he wants to have the woman prosecuted when it's all over 'cause he knows he didn't do anything and the investigations will bear it out. He's told he'll get an attorney if he needs one during the investigations. Jump to May - 5 months later - metro has finished it's investigation and has been unsuccessful in finding the woman so they can ask her more about her side of the story, and baby-daddy refuses to cooperate with any investigation, 'cause he's the first to call the police for help, but doesn't want to help with any investigation... stellar citizenry in action. The local prosecutor sends EVERYTHING to a grand jury if it involves police, 'cause she wants to protect her backside - forget about the police officer. And since, you guessed it, this is a white officer and an african-american woman, we better triple make sure he didn't look at her cross-eyed. The grand jury subpoena's baby-daddy who still won't cooperate, and baby-mama is still hiding out. I say tell ME where baby-daddy lives and I'll FIND baby-mama... those two are gonna meet up over that child at some point! Grand jury says the case is BS and doesn't indict. Where is the media and their follow-up reporting... crickets... crickets... the crickets are deafening. So that all happens by May. IA now does their thing and finally, in August, Cliff is returned to duty. Having lost about $50,000 in moonlighting, having been shamed by the accusations, having gotten a good case of PTSD -- he has been refused a body cam, even offered to pay for it himself and told no, only certain units can have them, and he no longer wants to be alone in any fashion with a female 'suspect' for lack of a better word. And, oh by the way, all accusations, unfounded or not, stay in the record. And here's the best prize - for both him and the taxpayer who spent over $60,000 for the investigations, hospital tests, etc., they won't prosecute the woman because it might discourage true victims from coming forward if they think they might be prosecuted. Seriously. So forgive me if I seem a bit jaded about how the police unions, etc., protect the police officer. I lived this one - Cliff is my brother and I was living there when it all happened. Sorry to take up so much space, but this experience has greatly colored my world and vision of what I see on the news and what I know goes on in the background. I know he is not the only one who has experienced such politically correct nonsense.
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Some large companies without a union will do anything they want without regard to their employees. My wife worked at Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Maryland from 1969 until 1993. One day they called her into the office and said, you can resign now and we'll give you three months pay or if you go back to your desk, we'll fire you and you will get nothing. Of course she resigned, they replaced her with a temp at $15 an hour with no benefits. She applied for unemployment, and even though she had quit, she received full benefits because they said, they know what Blue Cross does to their employees.
She started as a file clerk and worked her way up to an underwriter, she had great healthcare with zero deductible, six weeks vacation a year but the pay wasn't great, it was in the low $30's. Two years before the new president of the company, William Jews who was paid $5 million a year salary. Decided he liked the suburb of Owings Mills better than Towson, so he bought a million dollar house in Owings Mills. He sold the company's headquarters, a small high-rise building in Towson to Baltimore County for $7 million and they moved their police headquarters into the building. William Jews, the man who used Blue Cross of Maryland as his own cash cow!! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Co3jv-9UkAEXEJ0.jpg:large The Towson Blue Cross building that Jews determined was no longer suitable and sold for $7 million, the county moved their police headquarters into the building. https://dome.mit.edu/bitstream/handl...jpg?sequence=2 William Jews had the company build two new high-rise buildings on the edge of Owings Mills Mall for several million more and the company moved there. https://media.merchantcircle.com/371...nfYf_full.jpeg The company got such a bad reputation by denying claims, raising premiums. I had my coverage at $200 a month, they attempted to raise it to $250 a month for several years and causing me to raise my deductible every year, until it got to $3,000 deductible and then I finally dropped them. My wife said they many security guards at the new buildings because so many irate customers attempted to do harm to the company. In the end, she was glad she no longer had to work there. Jews attempted to sell the company in 2001 for $1.3 billion which would of generated him a $39 million bonus. It was eventually blocked and the state assembly stepped in and replaced most of the company's board. Instead Jews gave himself a $9 million bonus in 2002. Jews finally left Blue Cross in 2006 and received a golden parachute of $18 million dollars. |
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While there's no question that what happened to your brother was dead wrong and there's probably lots of similar stories, don't lose sight of how many times cops have gotten away with assault (even sexual)...and excessive violence toward suspects. In other words, one needs to look at the big picture...not just lone anecdotal incidents. |
So I though the purpose of the demonstrations was to hold those responsible, accountable for there actions, but yet there are celebrities, politicians and the media defending and donating money to defend those destroying property and looting. The reason for a union to defend the actions of there officers is that about 99% of citizens complaints are dismissed and to insure that the office has a chance to defend himself.
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Just as wrong though, are those who have actually done and gotten away with...that which your brother was wrongly accused of. |
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THIS from the people hired to..."Serve & Protect?" What's wrong with this picture? :oops: |
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https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06...1416000513.jpg Buffalo, N.Y., Mayor Byron Brown (D) on Friday said he was told that the 75-year-old man who was pushed down by police in a viral video was a “major instigator” and an “agitator.” “According to what was reported to me, that individual was a key and major instigator,” Brown told WBEN in a radio interview. In a graphic video shot by a WBFO journalist earlier in the week, Martin Gugino is seen slowly approaching the police until one officer tells him to move and pushes him. A person can be heard yelling, “He’s bleeding out of his ear!” and calling out for medics. Gugino is then seen lying on his back with blood spilling from his ear. Brown claimed that the police asked Gugino to leave the premises several times as law enforcement tried to disperse protesters after an 8 p.m. curfew. "He was trying to spark up the crowd of people,” Brown said. “Those people were there into the darkness. Our concern is when it gets dark, there is a potential for violence. There has been vandalism. There have been fires set. There have been stores broken into and looted. According to what was reported to me, that individual was a key and major instigator of people engaging in those activities." |
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An individual who happens to be "one" of "...the people..." hired that do in fact protect and serve. |
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Hardly. I can't help but laugh...and shake my head in disgust. A lesson in comprehension is definitely in order...but it's not for me. Read it again..."According to what was reported to me"..."said he was told." NOW, I wonder exactly who...was "doing the reporting"? I'll help you. It's the exact same ones, who support the act and the two that did it...as we ALL watched with our own eyes. :oops: |
I spent 34 years as a classroom teacher.
In the United States, teachers are trained not to touch students for any reason, not even to protect themselves or others. Every campus I ever worked on had "Security" - workers in uniforms authorized to use "necessary but not excessive" force - plus we had intercoms on which to call them. We also normally had one campus police officer, though the police officer never came to the many fights I saw, basically, security handled it. There was no "right to peaceful protest" on campus. Students were to be in class (or the library or eating in the cafeteria). A few times, a peaceful protest happened at the end of lunch hour, but there was not time for things to get out of hand. If groups of students refused to go to class, security escorted them. Teachers were hands off. (It was different when I taught in the United Kingdom and was trained to intervene to prevent a student from harming themselves or another student. I was taught the safest way to restrain a student, going around back and clasping them in my arms at the student's elbow level. I supposed the student could have kicked my shins, but the one time I had to intervene in such a way I was not kicked.) I was assaulted 3 times in 34 years and I would guess that is a below average number (not seriously harmed, just pushed or given a single punch.) I certainly did not strike back. In no case was the student punished who assaulted me. In no case was I accused of causing the assault by anything I said or did. (Well...in one case students said I put my hands on my hips and said "stay there", which is said to be a provocative gesture in their culture that I was unaware of at the time, but that's hardly an accusation of inciting an assault.) |
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In the future could you please use paragraphs. |
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Watch Patriot act on utube or Netflix-policing. Everyone needs this info about police unions, will terrify you!!!
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Trouble with your viewpoint is that how do you determine what is fair and Equitable from case to case. The point of the law is very simple what's good for one must be good for the next otherwise you have politicians who will decide to fire whoever they don't like.
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And thank goodness for that. Although, it terrifies the living daylights...out of the old dinosaurs. |
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You are absolutely correct. :thumbup: And while American automakers kept building junk, that got horrendous gas mileage, then instead of changing to compete with the imports they spent hundreds of millions on advertising...talking about "buy American." |
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Since he was given NO rights he might as well have been in China or Russia. |
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The police problem is minute compared to the crime problem.
I agree with the premise that unions are bad. They served their purpose and are no longer needed, especially in the public sector. And Private sector, maybe. |
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It Couldn't of Been Me, You wouldn't find me in a position like that, maybe you will, but I'm not that STUPID!! The REAL story is, the mayor ordered the police to enforce his curfew. They arrived on the scene, set up a line and moved ahead at a slow pace clearing the street. This bystander, ran down the street and jumped in front of the line of cops, and even though they ordered him several times to move along, he disobeyed and stood erect and was pushed back and the man took a fall that any wimp would of been proud. They should just handcuffed him and hauled his ass to jail, instead they gave him break and he refused to obey, that's called Disobeying a Police Officer's Command, that will get you in trouble. https://img.particlenews.com/image.p...EX0_0PFkblzz00 |
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Show ONE post that says..."the police are ALWAYS at fault." Just one. We'll wait. :popcorn: |
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Maybe it should have been better phrased..... "when it's white police dealing with a black person...."the police are always at fault" Steve |
Unions
I'm confused about government unions ... who represents the taxpayers when the unions are funding the politicians and the politicians are the ones giving raises to the government unions?
Early in my career, I was a union steward who was even sent to a week school outside of Seattle...to be "trained." A lot of what I heard in that week, is what began making me see my particular union...in a different light. What was hammered into us, was the fact that we were legally obligated to defend even the "problem children"...as hard as we could. That didn't make sense to me...but the law was the law. What I did receive, from our local union President, was some very sage advice. His attitude was that although we were required to defend the union members, there are some that you "don't have to get up early or stay up late...in their defense." Later on in my career, when I had worked my way up through the system and had become a senior manager, I was on the other side of the table and negotiated a number of CBA's...with three separate unions. The old president of my union at the time when I was a steward, had retired and the new/younger group(s) (all 3 unions), did not have the same wisdom and didn't bother to differentiate between the employee that was in a hearing for the umpteenth time...and the one that simply made a mistake. Needless to say, they were not usually happy when I was at the table, because I often knew their argument and strategy...before they even expressed it. :D Our standard punishment for a serious rules infraction conviction...was 30 days off without pay. Recognizing that the time off didn't just affect them, but also affected their families and family finances, I often proposed an "alternative discipline" in cases...where the employee wasn't a constant problem child. My proposed alternative discipline consisted of determining how much money they would lose with the 30 days off and offering them to keep working, at a lower rate, that would in effect make them pay the same amount of money they would lose...but to do it over a period of up to year. Since this allowed the employee to keep working and getting a regular paycheck, albeit less than they would normally receive... about 80% accepted this alternative discipline. The other 20% were financially OK and were actually happy...to have the 30 day "vacation." Anyway, I saw it as a win-win...for both sides. I didn't have to replace the employee and the employee was able to continue to pay their bills...even if it meant that they might have to tighten their belts a bit. My long-winded point is, that I believe we need more "out-of-the-box" thinking with police unions...if we're going to solve this issue. [/SIZE][/QUOTE] |
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