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Vermilion Villager 10-29-2023 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2269363)
Well gee, if these "tragedies" didn't keep happening over and over again, maybe we wouldn't have to keep reliving them.

They're not tragedies. It wasn't an unfortunate accident. It was an atrocious, hideous, hateful, intentional act of violence. And it keeps happening. Everyone who was affected directly by one of these incidents, lives with the risk of a new incident triggering the emotional turmoil they experienced the first time around.

So maybe if we could come up with solutions for a) stopping these incidents OR b) reducing the risk of them happening, then maybe there'd be fewer of them, and no one would have to relive anything at all.

We'll keep bringing it up, until we stop it from happening again.

GREAT REPLY!!!! :bigbow:

oldtimes 10-29-2023 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2269481)
Do you actually believe that the distress about the bombing of WTC was because about 400 responders died and would not have been a problem if only the 2200 civilians had died? My feeling is exactly the opposite. Civilians did not sign up to be in the line of fire. That does not mean I don't mourn the loss of the 400, but they chose a career fraught with risk of death from that career choice. I honor their devotion to service.

The WTC attack was an act of terror by a foreign government which made it an incredible tragedy all around.

The mass shootings are different in that they happen every day. What I ask is where do we draw the line, 10 deaths, 20 deaths, 50 deaths? Do we spend millions of dollars to memorialize each and every occurrence? How about the thousands of individuals that get killed every day? Do we just forget about them because it wasn't a mass shooting? I just don't understand the logic.

OrangeBlossomBaby 10-29-2023 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2269372)
Bail is not meant to keep an accused individual in jail and in fact, that is prohibited by the eighth amendment.


If there is good reason to believe the accused will flee or will commit more crimes then deny bail and keep him in jail.

The concept of bail should be used as intended, not as a shortcut to keeping the accused in jail.

Many of these folks with low bails are repeat offenders. They're arrested, bail is set super low, their bondsman puts up only 10% of the fee, and they're free to go and commit more crimes. Which - they do, and this is evident because - they're repeat offenders.

My opinion - if they've committed a crime in the past, then their next arrest should have another 0 added to the end of their bail amount. Every subsequent arrest should get an additional 0. First arrest is 500? No prob, he's out, plea bargains, goes out and gets arrested for the same thing 3 months later? New bail is 5000. Posts bail and goes out and gets arrested again for something else a week later? Bail is now set to 50,000. And so on and so forth til he's just stuck there.

There's a guy who keeps getting caught shoplifting expensive stuff from Home Depot. He's not supposed to be in the store at all, but not every single employee will recognize one person out of thousands who come in every day, that they might never have seen because they weren't working the day he got caught last time.

He keeps making bail, getting out, and stealing again. Over and over again. By now, his bail should be around $500,000. And no bondsman should be wanting to go anywhere near him.

OrangeBlossomBaby 10-29-2023 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtimes (Post 2269540)
The WTC attack was an act of terror by a foreign government which made it an incredible tragedy all around.

The mass shootings are different in that they happen every day. What I ask is where do we draw the line, 10 deaths, 20 deaths, 50 deaths? Do we spend millions of dollars to memorialize each and every occurrence? How about the thousands of individuals that get killed every day? Do we just forget about them because it wasn't a mass shooting? I just don't understand the logic.

Here's a thought:

Taxpayers can agree to either
a) continue paying for memorials for victims of mass shootings or
b) start agreeing on common sense, 2A-respectful gun ownership laws AND enforcement.

I'll keep paying my fair share until the vote turns around. I'm all for 2A. I'm also all for common sense gun control. Federal database, fingerprinting, registering, licensing, background checks. No gun bans. If people pass those tests, they can own a Sherman tank loaded with heat-seeking missiles for all I care. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. So we need to legislate better laws to regulate the people since they're clearly not capable of regulating themselves.

OrangeBlossomBaby 10-29-2023 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 2269469)
WOW!!!! Somebody actually understands bail and the concept of innocent until proven guilty. Not a lot of that going around.

Bail simply is to let innocent people go free while guaranteeing that they will appear for trial. If you don't show you lose your money. So bail is set high enough that it is extremely unlikely you will flee, combined with ankle monitors and pulling passports as needed.

Repeat offenders should lose their right to having a bail bondsman bail them out again. And increased bail for subsequent arrests. If they're innocent, they wouldn't be caught stealing /again./ Or beating their wife /again./ Or cutting down /another/ tree on their neighbor's lawn. And so on.

jimbomaybe 10-30-2023 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby (Post 2269558)
Repeat offenders should lose their right to having a bail bondsman bail them out again. And increased bail for subsequent arrests. If they're innocent, they wouldn't be caught stealing /again./ Or beating their wife /again./ Or cutting down /another/ tree on their neighbor's lawn. And so on.

How about changing the parole system, a prison sentence is always shortened considerably by not causing too many problems when "inside" if released with out serving the full term and are convicted of another crime you first serve out the good time from previous conviction , no "good time" then start on your new sentence with a reduction of any "good time " that a first time offender would be eligible for.

sharonl7340 10-30-2023 06:15 AM

Agree with you. First of all; this is in Orlando. If they don't want to spend their tax dollars on a memorial, then that's their call (but I haven't heard that). Second; why does it bother anyone that a "memorial" is established? It certainly would give some measure of comfort to the families and witnesses of the horrific act.

Geez folks, why are you so negative about it?

Joe C. 10-30-2023 08:26 AM

A public memorial? I think that most of the "public" could give a hoot about it. In a few years, hardly anyone will remember it (excepting the families who had members involved). Kind of like the Coconut Grove fire in the 40's or the Station fire more than 20 years ago.
Money should be spent on things that benefit people ...... not memorials that really do nothing for anybody.

Robnlaura 10-30-2023 08:57 AM

Good idea for the gay community of Orlando to have a place they pay for if they want to remember them.. I’ve driven past the place countless times it needs to be demolished period

oldtimes 10-30-2023 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe C. (Post 2269664)
Money should be spent on things that benefit people ...... not memorials that really do nothing for anybody.

I agree. Build a low cost clinic or food bank, or such in their honor.

kingofbeer 10-30-2023 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2269070)
I'm not sure public funds should be used either. But I have another pet peeve about how this monument is being described. While this mass shooting was a tragedy, I'm not sure that a monument should be erected to "honor" the victims. Honor the firefighters who rushed into the WTC on 9/11 and died. Honor the thousands that died on the beaches of Normandy defending our country. But "honor" people who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? What "honorable" thing did they do? I think "remember" or "memorialize" are much better terms for these victims.

I find your comments to be disrespectful and offensive

Blueblaze 10-30-2023 12:19 PM

List of mass shootings in the United States (1900–1999 - Wikipedia)
Mass Shootings in the US: See 37 Years in One Chart | Time

198: Total Americans killed in mass shootings in the 50 years from 1920 to 1979
225: Total Americans killed in mass shootings in the 20 years from 1980 to 1999
715: Total Americans killed in mass shootings in the 20 years from 2000 to 2021

Hmmmmm.... It's almost like something changed in the 70's -- and then changed even worse in the '00's. What could it be?
Maybe this? Deinstitutionalisation - Wikipedia
Or this? Defund the police - Wikipedia

Keeping lunatics in asylums and killers in jail seemed to work pretty well. Instead of raising monuments to the dead for the amusement of lunatics and killers, how about we try putting them away again?


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