[DeanFL]

This last Thread copying his letter was deleted, rightfully by ToTV. It contained several 'bad' words. I have now deleted them, and will repost as I feel it is very important to share his insights into the George Floyd death with as many folks as will read them. IMO, he gives his very valuable understanding into the MN police "actions". This is direct from his Facebook post, which was shared to me by a friend.


Dave Bissonnette June 3 at 5:33 PM


I’ve had numerous people approach me and ask me my opinion regarding the police use of force in Minneapolis. I normally don’t speak out like this in such a public forum but my heart is broken with what I am witnessing across the country and right here in our own state and I feel the need to say something.

I have been a police officer for 19 years. For 16 of those years, I have taught Use of Force and Police Arrest & Control techniques at the recruit level at the Municipal Police Academy and at numerous departments throughout southern New England on an in-service level. I have trained thousands of cops. My training not only includes physical tactics and techniques to control a violent and combative individual but also the physiological, psychological and legal aspects that officers face during this type of event. I am a certified Force Analyst through the Force Science Institute and also teach a course in police diffusion and de-escalation techniques. I have conducted numerous Police Use of Force reviews throughout the state and am considered a subject matter expert by the RI Attorney General in the area of Police use of Force. I’m not saying all this to impress anyone. I really don't care what anyone thinks about me. I’m saying it because I want to establish credibility with anyone that reads this post. I know what the .... I’m talking about.

I have watched and reviewed the George Floyd video countless times. In all my years doing this, I have never seen a more blatant disregard for human life than what I witnessed in that video. It haunts me. It made me sick to my stomach. I can’t stop thinking about it. I’ve seen plenty of suffering and death in 19 years but have never watched a man die while the people who are supposed to protect them watched it happen and did nothing.

Kneeling on someone’s neck is not a technique that is taught or accepted anywhere that I’m aware of. As a matter of fact, we specifically tell recruits and cops NOT to kneel anywhere near the spine or neck because you can paralyze or kill someone. There are countless other ways to control someone on the ground that don’t involve putting your knee into a person’s neck with all your weight for over 8 minutes.

That is my professional opinion. Now for my personal feelings on the matter:
To “Officer” Derek Chauvin, who is the officer seen kneeling on Mr. Floyd’s neck, I have this to say to you: You ........... You ............... You and two other officers knelt on George Floyd’s neck and back and you watched him die. George Floyd was handcuffed and proned out on his stomach. Please don’t say you were holding him down because he couldn’t have pushed himself up off the ground if he wanted to. He was controlled. Once someone is controlled the use of force ends. Period. It is then the officer’s duty to check the well being of the subject to be sure he is not hurt or in distress. I don’t care how hard he fought you. I don’t care if he was on drugs. You had a duty to act! The smug look on your face said it all. You didn’t care that Mr. Floyd was begging for air and calling out for his Mother. You have no honor. And the other three officers are just as culpable. They didn’t act to stop you. You are all cowards. I wouldn’t .................. if you were on fire.

Now the country is burning down. And you were the spark. Your fellow officers are getting injured and killed. Even officers in your own city. Your brothers. I hope you can live with that for the rest of your life. I hope you can live with the suffering and pain you started. You have put us all in a position where we now have to defend ourselves against angry mobs with bricks and bats and other weapons who group us in with you. Well I am not like you. We are not like you. You are the 1%. I will NEVER be like you. I would rather die than be like you.

To my family and friends and those I care about who are not police officers and maybe don’t understand, please know that no one hates a dirty, ................... cop more than a good cop who does this job with honor and pride. I beg you, do not judge the 99% of good police officers based on the actions of an ignorant and evil few.

If you want to protest what happened, please do. Reach out to me. I will march with you peacefully just like thousands of other cops across the nation and mourn what has happened. I will kneel and pray with you. And when I put my uniform on, I will protect your right to peacefully protest because I took an oath to do so.

To my brothers and sisters that put on this uniform every day. Do not let what you see on TV jade you into thinking that this is what it is all about. The majority of people out there are good, honest hard working people who support you and what you stand for. Remember that. We don’t want to be judged by the actions of a shameful few and neither do the people we serve. Support the people we are sworn to protect. Hold your heads high and serve with honor and integrity.

To the rioters, I speak for all of law enforcement when I ask: PLEASE STOP. Your actions are solving nothing. You are not mourners or protesters. You are thugs and opportunists. You are cowards. You are destroying people’s lives and your behavior will not be tolerated. People are going to get hurt. Please do not test our resolve when it comes to protecting our flock. Enough is enough. This is not the legacy that George Floyd deserves.

Thank you for listening.

kneeling on someone’s neck is an approved restraining technique in Minn as well as other areas. Easy enough to check out on line. So much for your years of expertise.

[Stu from NYC]

Thanks for sharing.

[Aloha1]

Originally Posted by John41

kneeling on someone’s neck is an approved restraining technique in Minn as well as other areas. Easy enough to check out on line. So much for your years of expertise.

I believe you totally missed the point of the post

[blueash]

I wonder about that 1% which this cop [his term] says are bad cops. Certainly that means that the other cops are turning them in, right? That you, being the expert in proper policing techniques have been especially vigilant in watching for bad cops. Turned in any bad cops? I doubt it.
The Force Science Institute were he was trained, is a shoot first program. Police are taught that every encounter can end with your death and you should shoot if you feel threatened. This "I thought he was reaching for a gun" when I just told him to get his wallet defense sees citizens as the enemy. Such thinking is especially fraught when so many police, and the general public, have been conditioned to see Black men as dangerous. So a Black child playing with a toy gun does not get the benefit of the doubt that a white one would. So a Black man dancing down the sidewalk with earbuds who doesn't respond to a verbal order is taken down, choked and drugged to death.

The man who runs the Force institute is a favorite witness for cops charged in civilian shootings. Here is the NY Times in reference to one case where the head of the institute testified, with a quote from the officer's own defense attorney

On a cold night in early 2003, for instance, Robert Murtha, an officer in Hartford, Conn., shot three times at the driver of a car. He said the vehicle had sped directly at him, knocking him to the ground as he fired. Video from a nearby police cruiser told another story. The officer had not been struck. He had fired through the driver’s-side window as the car passed him.

Officer Murtha’s story was so obviously incorrect that he was arrested on charges of assault and fabricating evidence. If officers can get away with shooting people and lying about it, the prosecutor declared, “the system is doomed.”

“There was no way around it — Murtha was dead wrong,” his lawyer, Hugh F. Keefe, recalled recently. But the officer was “bright, articulate and truthful,” Mr. Keefe said. Jurors needed an explanation for how the officer could be so wrong and still be innocent.

Dr. Lewinski testified at trial. The jury deliberated less than one full day. The officer was acquitted of all charges.

I will accept the jury verdict. But I believe that not holding police to a higher standard is wrong. We train 18 year old soldiers who do not have fully developed frontal lobes and are in a real war zone that it is not okay to shoot unarmed civilians. And those 18 year olds can learn restraint and accept that such restraint may on rare occasions be a fatal error. Part of the risk when you sign up for the military. I do not see why a 25 or 35 year old cop cannot exercise the same restraint in a city or town in this country. They have more training than the soldier and more maturity and are not in a war zone, civilians are not their enemy.


I refer you to the recent firing of three white officers in North Carolina. They apparently accidentally turned on their recording device and the audio was captured while they were talking with each other. One of the three was seemingly the worst white racist bigot, but the other two who participated in the conversation never reported him or his thoughts about Black citizens. If no one turns in the bad apples, then you're all bad apples

"Piner said he's "ready" for a civil war. According to investigators, Piner said, using the n-word, that "we are just gonna go out and start slaughtering them."

"God I can't wait," Piner is reported to have said.

Piner also said, according to investigators, that he plans to buy an assault rifle and that society needed a civil war to "put 'em back about four or five generations...In interviews with investigators, all three of them said they were venting, citing what they called the current climate for police. They also denied being racist. " Yes sir, nothing at all racist here. And nothing would have changed had not they accidentally turned on the recording device. If I were a defense attorney I'd right now be looking at any case where these three were the arresting officers, handled evidence, or testified. I think my client is going to walk.

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by John41

kneeling on someone’s neck is an approved restraining technique in Minn as well as other areas. Easy enough to check out on line. So much for your years of expertise.

Not really. The Policy & Procedure Manual used to say that it allows "compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway" as non-deadly force options. Kneeling on the neck was never expressly approved.
Decent read here: George Floyd death: Neck restraint allowed in Minneapolis can kill The P&P Manual now states, "Neck Restraints and choke holds are prohibited. Instructors are prohibited from teaching the use of neck restraints or choke holds."

[roscoguy]

Although blueash raises some troubling issues, I have to say that I agree 100% with the officer's words. I just hope that he & the rest of the 99% 'walk the walk'.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

Although blueash raises some troubling issues, I have to say that I agree 100% with the officer's words. I just hope that he & the rest of the 99% 'walk the walk'.

We agree on that. I just sadly doubt that he walks the walk about turning in bad cops. And I believe he has underestimated the number of bad cops.

I read two recent reports on the NYC police misconduct board which suggest an extremely lenient system

NYPD Discipline Review Panel Found Dozens of Cops Deserved More Serious Punishment - THE CITY

My Family Saw a Police Car Hit a Kid on Halloween. Then I Learned How NYPD Impunity Works. — ProPublica

I think that second link, to propublica is especially worth reading.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by blueash

We agree on that. I just sadly doubt that he walks the walk about turning in bad cops. And I believe he has underestimated the number of bad cops.

I read two recent reports on the NYC police misconduct board which suggest an extremely lenient system

NYPD Discipline Review Panel Found Dozens of Cops Deserved More Serious Punishment - THE CITY

My Family Saw a Police Car Hit a Kid on Halloween. Then I Learned How NYPD Impunity Works. — ProPublica

I think that second link, to propublica is especially worth reading.

Originally Posted by blueash

If no one turns in the bad apples, then you're all bad apples.

While I believe law enforcement officers DO NEED reasonable laws protecting them from constantly facing lawsuits or discipline for piddly or unwarranted complaints, I also believe that the pendulum has swung so far to the side of "Qualified Immunity"...too many think they are invulnerable and should be above the law.

Given so many cases where prosecutors don't even bother to prosecute bad cops for obvious excessive force/abuse, because the deck is stacked so high against them, or when they do prosecute and the bad cops get off...why wouldn't a sense of invincibility be so prevalent?

Let's find a way that good cops can turn in the bad ones and strong actions can be taken by prosecutors against them...instead of the ones reporting being turned into pariahs or worse.

It's obvious that the police unions and peer pressure are so strong and influential, that even the vast majority of outstanding law enforcement officers...are reluctant to speak up.

There IS a reasonable middle ground.

[Bay Kid]

Could the Floyd incident have anything to do with their bar job together and counterfeit money?

[DeanFL]

.
.
.
Boy - does this Sheriff's letter hit the point!,
.
.

Sheriff D. Clarke says it best!

It's not the police who need to be retrained, it's the public. We have grown into a mouthy, mobile phone wielding, vulgar, uncivil society with no personal responsibility and the attitude of 'it's the other person's fault', 'you owe me'. A society where children grow up with no boundaries or knowledge or concern for civil society and personal responsibility.

When an officer says "Put your hands up," then put your hands up! Don't reach for something in your pocket, your lap, your seat. There's plenty of reason for a police officer to feel threatened, there have been multiple assaults and ambushes on police officers lately. Comply with requests from the officer, have your day in court. Don't mouth off, or fight, or refuse to comply... that escalates the situation.

Police officers are our sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. They're black, white, brown, all colours, all ethnicities, all faiths, male and female, they are us. They see the worst side of humanity... the raped children, the bloody mangled bodies of traffic victims, the bruised and battered victims of domestic violence, homicide victims, body parts... day after day.

They work holidays while we have festive meals with our families. They miss school events with their kids, birthdays, anniversaries, all those special occasions that we take for granted. They work in all types of weather, under dangerous conditions, for relatively low pay.

They have extensive training, but they are human. When there are numerous attacks on them, they become hyper vigilant for a reason, they have become targets. When a police officer encounters any person... any person, whether at a traffic stop, a street confrontation, an arrest, whatever... that situation has the potential to become life threatening. You, Mr & Mrs/Miss Civilian, also have the responsibility of keeping the situation from getting out of control.

Many law enforcement officers are Veterans. They've been in service to this nation most of their lives, whether on the battlefield or protecting us here at home. They are the only thing that stands between us and anarchy in the streets.

If you want to protect your child, teach them respect.

[17362]

I totally agree. I have witnessed this especially in the last 20 years.

Originally Posted by DeanFL

.
.
.
Boy - does this Sheriff's letter hit the point!,
.
.

Sheriff D. Clarke says it best!

It's not the police who need to be retrained, it's the public. We have grown into a mouthy, mobile phone wielding, vulgar, uncivil society with no personal responsibility and the attitude of 'it's the other person's fault', 'you owe me'. A society where children grow up with no boundaries or knowledge or concern for civil society and personal responsibility.

When an officer says "Put your hands up," then put your hands up! Don't reach for something in your pocket, your lap, your seat. There's plenty of reason for a police officer to feel threatened, there have been multiple assaults and ambushes on police officers lately. Comply with requests from the officer, have your day in court. Don't mouth off, or fight, or refuse to comply... that escalates the situation.

Police officers are our sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters. They're black, white, brown, all colours, all ethnicities, all faiths, male and female, they are us. They see the worst side of humanity... the raped children, the bloody mangled bodies of traffic victims, the bruised and battered victims of domestic violence, homicide victims, body parts... day after day.

They work holidays while we have festive meals with our families. They miss school events with their kids, birthdays, anniversaries, all those special occasions that we take for granted. They work in all types of weather, under dangerous conditions, for relatively low pay.

They have extensive training, but they are human. When there are numerous attacks on them, they become hyper vigilant for a reason, they have become targets. When a police officer encounters any person... any person, whether at a traffic stop, a street confrontation, an arrest, whatever... that situation has the potential to become life threatening. You, Mr & Mrs/Miss Civilian, also have the responsibility of keeping the situation from getting out of control.

Many law enforcement officers are Veterans. They've been in service to this nation most of their lives, whether on the battlefield or protecting us here at home. They are the only thing that stands between us and anarchy in the streets.

If you want to protect your child, teach them respect.

[skarra]

It is indeed encouraging that people in the force feel the way you do.

Maybe you overlooked it, or perhaps it just needed to be written more explicitly, but I would also conclude ... "To the Protesters, we support you and stand behind you 100% - what happend is not acceptable and something big needs to change". There is a problem with how this is being covered in that the protesters and rioters are somehow lumped together, but that should not happen. They are 2 separate groups of people - people looking for change for a better world, and the opportunists trying to take advantage of a situation. Hopefully we all support the protesters 100%.

There is another problem though, and that is the blue "circle of silence" that enshrouds the police force. It's understandable that people stick up for their own, but it should not happen when bad things happen. The police union does no one any favors, and the fact that the police walked out in support of the policeman who shot Rayshard Brooks in the back makes me wonder just how large the 1% problem is. That officer will have his day in court, but for the remainder of the police force to call in sick in some sort of protest does not do them any favors in the minds of many.

I'm white, middle class, never been in trouble with the law and still feel threatened by police because of their heavy handed approach. I count myself lucky that I am not black - I can't imagine how they must feel both for themselves and their family. Every day must be a living hell for them when they wonder if the slightest wrong move by anyone including their children will wind up with them being dead. Not to mention how their civil rights have been trampled upon.

Black Lives do Matter. I think the entire world now realizes that this needs to be treated seriously because hopefully real change is going to happen.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by blueash

I wonder about that 1% which this cop [his term] says are bad cops. Certainly that means that the other cops are turning them in, right? That you, being the expert in proper policing techniques have been especially vigilant in watching for bad cops. Turned in any bad cops? I doubt it.
The Force Science Institute were he was trained, is a shoot first program. Police are taught that every encounter can end with your death and you should shoot if you feel threatened. This "I thought he was reaching for a gun" when I just told him to get his wallet defense sees citizens as the enemy. Such thinking is especially fraught when so many police, and the general public, have been conditioned to see Black men as dangerous. So a Black child playing with a toy gun does not get the benefit of the doubt that a white one would. So a Black man dancing down the sidewalk with earbuds who doesn't respond to a verbal order is taken down, choked and drugged to death.

The man who runs the Force institute is a favorite witness for cops charged in civilian shootings. Here is the NY Times in reference to one case where the head of the institute testified, with a quote from the officer's own defense attorney



I will accept the jury verdict. But I believe that not holding police to a higher standard is wrong. We train 18 year old soldiers who do not have fully developed frontal lobes and are in a real war zone that it is not okay to shoot unarmed civilians. And those 18 year olds can learn restraint and accept that such restraint may on rare occasions be a fatal error. Part of the risk when you sign up for the military. I do not see why a 25 or 35 year old cop cannot exercise the same restraint in a city or town in this country. They have more training than the soldier and more maturity and are not in a war zone, civilians are not their enemy.


I refer you to the recent firing of three white officers in North Carolina. They apparently accidentally turned on their recording device and the audio was captured while they were talking with each other. One of the three was seemingly the worst white racist bigot, but the other two who participated in the conversation never reported him or his thoughts about Black citizens. If no one turns in the bad apples, then you're all bad apples

"Piner said he's "ready" for a civil war. According to investigators, Piner said, using the n-word, that "we are just gonna go out and start slaughtering them."

"God I can't wait," Piner is reported to have said.

Piner also said, according to investigators, that he plans to buy an assault rifle and that society needed a civil war to "put 'em back about four or five generations...In interviews with investigators, all three of them said they were venting, citing what they called the current climate for police. They also denied being racist. " Yes sir, nothing at all racist here. And nothing would have changed had not they accidentally turned on the recording device. If I were a defense attorney I'd right now be looking at any case where these three were the arresting officers, handled evidence, or testified. I think my client is going to walk.

According to the Washington Post database, a total of 41 unarmed people were shot and killed by US police in 2019. The racial composition of victims is:

White: 19
Black: 9
Hispanic: 6
Other: 4
Unknown: 3

In some of these cases Police were charged and tried, others were ruled justifiable.

According to the DOJ Police have more than 50 million encounters with citizens every year, traffic stops, domestic violence, burglaries etc etc. Any of these encounters can turn violent. Of course you would like for the number to be zero, but Police killings of unarmed citizens are statistically insignificant compared to the number of encounters.

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous “To Err Is Human” report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media. More recent studies estimate the number is now more than 200,000 per year.

How Many Die From Medical Mistakes in U.S. Hospitals? — ProPublica

How many Doctors go to jail every year for malpractice? Do they avoid prosecution because their insurance pays out large sums?

To err is human for some but not all?

[LoisR]

You missed the entire point of the conversation due to the excuses you raised. NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
Here's an easy and failproof test to identify a "good" cop. Ask him/her how many "bad" cops they turned in. And this is from a white person who also experienced police crime.