They are real...and they are not spectacular :)

or down upon...

Before his death Wallace denounced all of his prior leanings toward segregation and apologized. Perhaps you are not aware that at the start of the war only one in twenty Confederates owned any slaves. Perhaps you are not aware that according to the majority of historians the Confederates and Union soldiers interpreted the heritage of 1776 in different ways. Confederates professed to fight for liberty and independence from a too radical government. Union solders fought to preserve. At the start of the war my great, great. great grandfather had nine slaves. When the war started and three of his sons went off to fight and die he released all nine. I have the records. One slave named "Granville" elected to stay with my grandfather until he died. I have a poem that Granville wrote about life on that farm. It was a different time and different circumstances. Also many of the Northern officers came from slave owning family's. George Washington himself owned slaves but liberated all. Thomas Jefferson fathered a slave child.

Myths About Slavery (click here)

Glad you know how to "google" and get one opinion. Read some books on how the war started and what caused it. It had just as much to do with the election of Lincoln, the rights of the States. The government we founded was a federation. That is a central government with smaller ones who have rights and control of their on. Otherwise we would be a unitarian government. (I think I have heard this recently when it came to the virus).

Just rename everything that offends you. Replace every statue with a pacifier statue.

History is the past and the past is dead, the future not yet. We only have now. Is what is occurring about statues, I think not. The pandemic put people on edge. An opportunity to start something and it worked.

I agree.
It started with book burning. Went on to union school boards deciding what is being taught to re- write history, only teach what they feel relevant, instead of whole truth and now it’s Ruining statues. Looks like they are winning the fight they started, while the sheep lay silent. Protests are now riots and terrorists.
Honestly, if “YOU are one of them” out there and you think this will change my thoughts- you are wrong.
You are not a human that I value if you do these harmful things including detaining people against their will for no reason except that a skin color is the reason.
Peaceful demonstrations and peaceful protests with no harm to things or beings- I will listen and hear you out then. You will only be heard from me this way.
“You” is meant in a general person way, as a verb, not a noun directly at this person(s) in the thread.

I tried to explain this in a thread a couple of months back, and as always it falls on deaf ears to people that have tunnel vision. Slavery was not the main reason for the start of the Civil War.

Steve

Dust your great granddads jacket off..Just may need it

So Steve, should I take your opinion as to the cause of the Civil war filtered through your point of view as accurate, or should I believe the actual words of the people who led the succession and explained very clearly why the slave owning states acted? Your word or the words in the acts of the state legislatures explaining their actions? Your word or the word of the newspaper editorials and stories written at the time explaining why the election of Lincoln was a problem? Why the term "Black Republican" was so commonly used to describe Lincoln and his supporters?

Just for your education go to the Library of Congress website and use as your search terms abolition and Lincoln or slavery and Lincoln and your date range from late summer 1860 to Jan 1861 and read the newspapers being printed at the time. The only states right issue was the right of the states to own slaves and to enforce the fugitive slave act. There were some minor issues with tariffs but nothing that couldn't be worked out peacefully. It was only with the election of that "Black Republican" who would use the force of the federal government to interfere in the "peculiar institution" that triggered the war.

Do not fall for the revision of history pushed by the Southern apologists and the Klan. Read the original sources. Read the words of those who were the thought leaders, the political leaders and the military leaders of the South. You can post your thoughts about what caused the war as often as you'd like.

Search Results << Chronicling America << Library of Congress

Search Results << Chronicling America << Library of Congress

you want to read the proof that virulent racism wasn't just found in the South? Read this page from the NY Herald from early Nov 1860 Full of what will happen if Lincoln wins.. Negroes will get to vote. Like Mohomadens they will be privileged to take into their arms the fair Caucasian women of NYC. That the Black Republicans want to abolish the Army and Navy so that the slaves can revolt, that white people will lose jobs to freed slaves.

It is a real eye opener. Not one comment on tariffs. Everything on the page pleading for a vote against Lincoln is about Negroes. Now tell me again about how slavery was not the issue of the day.

There are parts of our heritage that we can be proud of and other parts that we aren’t proud of. We don’t need statues celebrating portions of our heritage that are horrific reminders of someone else's heritage.

QUOTE=TimeForChange;1788457]Born and raised in the South and a proud American. Have lived in four Southern States except for my time serving my Country (AL, GA, TX, FL) in my 74.5 years. My ancestors including my great, great grandfather fought in the Civil War for the South and two of his brothers died defending Atlanta. That is part of my family history and I will never give up my Southern heritage, my Southern accent or my love of Southern food and all the great places in the South. I fought with all races, colors in Vietnam and never really had a problem. They were all brothers to me. We can tear down all the statues we want, change all the names we want but I will never be ashamed of my family or being from the South. You can change "things or objects" but you cannot change the history. It is what it is! Blast away! :boom:[/QUOTE]

Excellent response and I agree wholeheartedly!

"What led to the outbreak of the bloodiest conflict in the history of North America?

A common explanation is that the Civil War was fought over the MORAL issue of slavery.

In fact, it was the ECONOMICS of slavery and POLITICAL CONTROL of that system that was CENTRAL to the conflict.

A key issue was STATE'S RIGHTS."

Causes Of The Civil War | History Detectives | PBS

I never said slavery wasn't an issue, it started with States rights, and slavery was part of the rights southern states were fighting for. A technicality for sure, but gets overlooked and ignored.
I can post link after link that says the same as above. I think I did that when this subject came up months ago.

I'm not going to get into this again.

Steve

The pyramids were built by slaves. Are they to be torn down too?

As for the North being more egalitarian, just look at the hatred that bussing children engendered.