Staged. The Wallace troubles are more than likely staged. BLM is a war against whites and Wallace is right there with them.

So it's been ok for 100's of years but not now because of a couple of very wrongful deaths (as a result of not obeying a police officer). I guess reparation for the third generation descendant's of slaves is next. Ancestry.com will love that.

Today I almost feel like 1968 again when I was in Vietnam when both Bobby Kennedy and MLK were killed. My closet friends (other troops) were black. You cannot imagine the hurt I felt for them being half way around the world fighting in a war that hardly anyone but Pres Johnson supported. Some just would not speak to me anymore. Some got very upset and I was afraid of what they would do (fragging). We are way past that level of feeling today. The pure hate across this Country is at a peak. I'm afraid of what may happen and if will ever end without losing (don't want to say).

There is a tour of Germany that takes you to all the sites of the Nazi's and Hitlers locations. Last year I went to Dachau and Eagles Nest. Both tell the story and have photo's of Hitler and others of the time. There are railroad sidings where the trains departed to the camps in various locations in Europe. Eagles Nest is now both histoical and a restaurant. When you stood on the sundeck the photo's showed where hitler stood and Eva Braun sat. The Fuhrerbunker now has tourist signs with photo's and diagrams. Hitlers beer hall putsch tours are always full.Germany is reclaiming their history. We had conversations with the next generation and there is a thirst for knowledge of that period among those we talked to. Statues were destroyed because of the fear that they would be used to further the Nazi movement and start a resurgence. The Germans did not remove statues, the Russians did.

As I said.

Poke Here

Which I have no problem with doing here.

Put them in central location so that school children can learn...from the despicable parts of our nation's past. :ho:

Not true, Germany has them all over the cities, as we do in the battlefields and locations where battles happened, where those that were involved lived and at the cemetaries where the lost are buried. Japan has left buildings we damaged stand as a monument to their brave soldiers. Hitlers birthplace in Austria still stands and is identified. The suggestion of moving the statures to a central location so kids could go and learn is a great thought but not practical. Schools don't teach history (field trips were part of my schooling), parents don't teach history. Go to any Civil War battlefield or museum and count heads, you might be surprised how many aren't there. We will eliminate any knowledge of the bad parts of our story, and for those that think that's a good thing, congratulations, your revision will happen.

I (as many others) don't see it as "trying to eliminate" the disgusting part of our past, at all.

It's simply a matter of not glorifying it...in prominent public places.

Now is a good time to revisit, when and why the majority...of those statues/monuments were put up.


Jim Crow Support - Intimidation of Blacks (click here)

https://www.splcenter.org/sites/defa...amp=1549050831

Said it before in different words:

If your understanding of history relies on a statue or a series of statues, then you need to just stop talking about history at all.

Removing statues is NOT erasing history. It's removing statues. History is still being taught. The books are still in print. The original documents are still in the museums and archives where they were put, precisely so that actual documentation of our history could be preserved for future use/consideration.

Stop with the nonsense about removing statues being an act of removing our history. It just isn't. Most people don't even know who sculpted any of those statues. The artists are part of the STATUE's history. Most people don't know what year any of those statues were erected. The year is part of the STATUE's history. Most people don't know the actual official names of most of the statues. The names are part of the STATUES' histories.

These statues are, for all intents and purposes, not historical at all. They represent prominent personalities who existed at one point or another in our history, but the statues themselves have no importance of their own.

They were strong and fine looking men on elegant horses that someone once loved. Someone worked hard to make a beautiful statue of them. They were someone's father and someone's son and someone's brother..just like the men who are being touted as hero's who were incarcerated many times and didn't stop when they were told to stop and grabbed an officer of the laws tazer and shot at him with it.

People who look for beauty find it in all kinds of places.

If it is wrong to look down on one group of people who have done wrong things, than it is also wrong to look down on another group of people who have done wrong things. It is the same issue. Who has the high ground here?

I have plenty of farmers and hillbillies and rednecks and doctors and lawyers and statesmen in my family and aquaintances. None of them kept slaves or were put in jail for anything. My point is this. No matter how you look at it, there are people who do try their very best to do the right thing, just about every day in their lives. I bet no posters on this site knew anyone who kept slaves and very few know/knew anyone who was put in jail.

While you were picking & choosing portions of that PBS page to quote (and adding YOUR OWN emphasis), you seem to have skipped this: "The Southern states wanted to assert their authority over the federal government so they could abolish federal laws they didn't support, especially laws interfering with the South's right to keep slaves and take them wherever they wished." (emphasis added :icon_wink:)
I'm quite sure you can find plenty of links to people that share your opinion; once again I'll post a link to the actual declarations of cessation from the 5 original Confederate states: The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States | American Battlefield Trust Read it in their own words, not the opinions on anyone else. If you don't want to read it all, I can tell you that 'slave' in various forms appears 83 times, 'right' appears 37 times and largely as a right to keep slaves.

*Breaking News*

The FBI just released a statement, that in essence stated...Bubba was NOT the target of a hate crime.

Which, as I said in the other thread...is actually a relief. :thumbup:

And I will give it to Goodlife's reports, that it looks like it WAS a door pull rope (that was made to look like a noose sometime last fall and prior to Wallace being assigned the stall at this race)...that was just misconstrued by a crew member.

Good news...all the way around. :cool:

All the rope door pulls at Talladega have "nooses" on them. They weren't made to look like nooses, they were made to make it easier to grab the rope and pull down the door.

Welcome home, Brother.....I'm a NYC boy who also served in Vietnam and I think it sucks y'all are getting hounded over the Confederate flag..

So, by that reasoning, are we to conclude you'd have no problem demolishing the Jefferson Memorial and blowing up the Washington Monument? Just asking ...

NASCAR looks ridiculous ... talk about an emotional overreaction and adding fuel to the already blazing racial fire. They owe all of us an apology

LOL I didn't call it a noose, Nascar and Bubba did, that's why I used quotes

Let me help

What do quotes around a word mean?

Quotation marks around single words can occasionally be used for emphasis, but only when quoting a word or term someone else used. Usually, this implies that the author doesn’t agree with the use of the term.

:1rotfl:

Actually, you DID call it...a "noose." :oops:

And given the number of different ways to make a loop at the end of a rope, an actual "noose" is very likely the only reason...a concern was made in the first place. :ohdear:


Regardless, I'm really glad it was a false alarm...as I'm a race (any racing) fan. :thumbup:

FBI said..."fashioned like a noose."

Which is the first hint, that there are lots of ways...to "fashion a loop." :wave:

And the article you linked in your day of reckoning thread?

Sunday night marked a tipping point for NASCAR. Sunday night, the series disclosed that someone had left a noose — the symbol of this nation’s original sin, the undeniable message of intimidation, a sign so cruel and cutting it defies imagination — in the garage stall of Bubba Wallace, the Cup series’ lone Black driver.

OOPS :1rotfl:

A noose IS..."this nation’s original sin, the undeniable message of intimidation, a sign so cruel and cutting it defies imagination." :ohdear:

Thank goodness it was not intended to be...AT Bubba. :thumbup:

It wasn't intended for anyone, it was a freakin rope pull on a garage door.

Thank god it didn't start more riots. Wait... they are still rioting anyway.

"They?"

Thank you. :wave:

Yes they. Is that racist now?

they
[T͟Hā]

PRONOUN
used to refer to two or more people or things

people in general.

Yes along with their, them, those, thugs, and a few others I can't remember, there are quite a few..................
I know 'cause I read that in another thread.
Steve

I knew that thugs is verboten, didn't get the memo on "they"

How do we refer to groups of people now?

That's a good question. I guess it depends on how, where, when and why that group is congregating.

Steve

Edited to say I'm sorry I said "that group", some might get it misconstrued................I should've said "any particular group" :ohdear:

Steve

TEAR DOWN PRESIDENT LINCOLN STATUE IN WASHINGTON DC

Hundreds of (mostly white) protesters have shown up.

Why? Because this statue honoring the signing of the emancipation proclamation is “racist.”

Where did the statue come from? It was paid for and erected by freed slaves.

Noted white supremacist Frederick Douglass was the keynote speaker at the dedication of this statue. :shocked: Bold is sarcasm

Douglass speech here

Oration in Memory of Abraham Lincoln - Teaching American History

There's no cure for cancer

Steve

Verboten?
 

I agree with your sentiment. I sometimes just have shake my head in wonder at how words that have there origin in some other language and have been adopted to describe actions or feeling or some other generic group or place or ... whatever, is suddenly decided by someone to be a racial, gender, etc, epithet.
What I learned many years ago was that the term thug, Sanskrit/Indian, refers to a member of the thuggee, a rather brutal and organized group of thieves and murderers. The term was used later to describe the brutal behavior of individuals or gangsters, totally irrespective of race or culture.
So, who is it that gets to randomly decide which words constitute a racial or cultural epithet? Now we are picking on those, they, them? Some see beauty when others see ugliness. Some see light when others can only see darkness. Some see joy while others see sorrow. Glass is half full or glass is half empty. Where did this silliness come from? Did some antisocial mastermind decide that labelling random common words as racist is a tool to intimidate others and force them to adopt new meanings, just because you have nothing constructive to bring to the table. Is it lack of education or feelings of some kind inadequacy causing the misinterpretation, misreading between the lines that is causing this.
Once we are convinced that all words are now verboten, then we will no longer be able to have any dialogue at all.
Remember "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me".
We need to stop nit-pickin, whining, and re-writing the dictionary so we use it as a weapon.
GOOD NIGHT!