[Petersweeney]

We should take Greenland

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1946 View Post
Not sure of the exact number but Russia has 6000+ nukes and the USA 5000+ but even the lowly UK with 280 Nukes has enough fire power to make a hell of a mess of the world - if everyone fires everything they've got put your head between your legs and kiss you A** goodbye.
Well said, we both have more than enough to bring about nuke winter. And, we, the public, only have general numbers and no idea of readiness, or accuracy, or much of anything.




You just AGREED with Mike who provided actual numbers for weapons from Russia and the US. THOSE aren’t my numbers, I didn’t provide numbers.

I provided a source, radiofreeeurope, for the nuclear preparedness of Russia versus the US. Do some research, reading and check in on reliable news sources, the US didn’t perform the latest scheduled exercise lest Putin be upset. It’s not brain surgery.

The only link I saw that you posted was to an opinion.

6000+ is not an exact number, it is an estimate.

You stated as FACT that the US would lose a nuke war against Russia.

If you found a report that the reason the US stop an exercise was to avoid making Putin mad, your Google Foo is better than mine, because I can find no such article. And if you can find it I expect it will be my opinion. I am pretty sure the US would not say in print, "We are afraid of fighting Russia, so we are going to stop any military actions that might make Putin mad"...

But, I could be wrong, apparently, you can't be wrong.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

The only link I saw that you posted was to an opinion.

6000+ is not an exact number, it is an estimate.

You stated as FACT that the US would lose a nuke war against Russia.

If you found a report that the reason the US stop an exercise was to avoid making Putin mad, your Google Foo is better than mine, because I can find no such article. And if you can find it I expect it will be my opinion. I am pretty sure the US would not say in print, "We are afraid of fighting Russia, so we are going to stop any military actions that might make Putin mad"...

But, I could be wrong, apparently, you can't be wrong.

This would be funny, if not so convoluted. I gave you the source, the date and what to search online and you can’t do it. Our last intercontinental ballistic missile test, which the article indicates is planned way in advance and not often, was cancelled and why. Try harder. I never stated the US would lose a nuclear war with Russia. Those are your words. I did indicate we wouldn’t win a nuclear war with Russia. There will be NO winners.

You realize we’re both on the same side of this fight… of course, who knows for sure these days. Read all my posts. I didn’t state Russia would win. My point is that with Russia just as, and if not more, nuclear armed as the US, and an old man in Russia at the helm with an itchy finger who doesn’t care who he takes with him, there will be no winners if this goes thermonuclear. There will be no tit for tat with Putin. He’s the world bully with his big weapon.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Aces4

This would be funny, if not so convoluted. I gave you the source, the date and what to search online and you can’t do it. Our last intercontinental ballistic missile test, which the article indicates is planned way in advance and not often, was cancelled and why. Try harder. I never stated the US would lose a nuclear war with Russia. Those are your words. I did indicate we wouldn’t win a nuclear war with Russia. There will be NO winners.

You realize we’re both on the same side of this fight… of course, who knows for sure these days. Read all my posts. I didn’t state Russia would win. My point is that with Russia just as, and if not more, nuclear armed as the US, and an old man in Russia at the helm with an itchy finger who doesn’t care who he takes with him, there will be no winners if this goes thermonuclear. There will be no tit for tat with Putin. He’s the world bully with his big weapon.

I looked back over all your posts, I could find NO links now, I am fair certain there was before. I only found a reference to a news article. My point still stands you can not KNOW how many Nukes we have, you can only approximate it. You can not KNOW the readiness of our military. If you do and you reveal that known that is leaking classified information.

You said, "I think you don’t have to worry about tit for tat, Russia is way ahead of the US in nuke weapons."

I see no way to read/interpret that other than If we tried to go tit-for-tat Russia will win, BECAUSE they are "WAY AHEAD OF THE US in Nukes".

But, then, you can read it anyway you want.

I agree you also stated there would be no winner - in a later post. I agree with that. If we go nuclear we all lose.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Interesting analysis. If push comes to shove would the Russian military allow Putin to start a nuclear war? Hope we never have to find out.

Thanks and I agree about nuclear war.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

I looked back over all your posts, I could find NO links now, I am fair certain there was before. I only found a reference to a news article. My point still stands you can not KNOW how many Nukes we have, you can only approximate it. You can not KNOW the readiness of our military. If you do and you reveal that known that is leaking classified information.

You said, "I think you don’t have to worry about tit for tat, Russia is way ahead of the US in nuke weapons."

I see no way to read/interpret that other than If we tried to go tit-for-tat Russia will win, BECAUSE they are "WAY AHEAD OF THE US in Nukes".

But, then, you can read it anyway you want.

I agree you also stated there would be no winner - in a later post. I agree with that. If we go nuclear we all lose.

Sigh.. we are not able to respond to anything with Putin and I never mentioned military because it will never be a factor. He has finger on the button and therein lies the rub.

Way ahead of us, yes they are. We no longer have a weapons edge to control freak dictators with nukes, they have them too. They’re ahead of us which translates to: we are able to blow each other apart. No one has an edge, just evil lurking.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Ashley from UK

So sitting on this side of the pond and not being a military expert - but having studied a little history my guess is.

1) Russie is blocking all external access to the internet this week for its citizens (Eg. no more VPN so no more balanced view and not more dissension).
2) Internal PR will go into overdrive so Russian residents believe that this is merely a military campaign to oust the NAZI and evil West. (remember WW2 - The German people were brainwashed to believe the lies of their leaders). China is also not far behind the same thing with Hong Kong AND Taiwan moving under draconian control.
3) China is really behind this - feeding both US and Russia with info to cause infighting and weaken both parties - divide and conquer. - I have no proof - it's mere speculation.
4) China will step in when things start getting out of hand and broker a settlement (a more palatable conclusion than armageddon) - by which time China will not be hampered by the huge debts of war incurred on top of the huge debts of Covid. Lest we forget that China already has many financial problems of its own - War is a great way to resolve those debts - either by leveling up the opposition (eg East/West) OR taking control of the opposition's assets. This may be the start of the great leveling up around the world and potentially the start of more peace - or the start of a 100-year war....the outcome of which will not be pleasant.
5) We are all thinking of conventional warfare. Russia doesn't work like that. Yes, the Ukrainian people can fight a long-term gorilla war but Russia now has vacuum bombs and isn't frightened to use them. Flatten first - chemical warfare second. Higher casualties for the indigenous population - but potentially swifter in the long run... HOWEVER - you can NEVER kill people's spirits which may fester for generations - as we see all over the world with repeated conflicts over the same ground with the same arguments.

Like I said - I am not a military expert - just an observer of human actions. As the original author implied - If you want to predict the future read the past.

And to end with - we are all the pawns in the game of a few. Whether American, British, European, Russian, or Chinese. We will pay the price at the tills, through our lives or the lives of the younger generations who now fight. We are all the same - as an enlightened and very frightened Russian friend said to me over the weekend in what they think will be their last VPN posting - we are the 's' people that are expendable to those with self-interest for power. We are all the same so do not automatically blame the peasants for the crimes of the dictator - even if the peasant supposedly committed an unseemly action - that had they not have been indoctrinated with lies they would not have performed...

I agree with the last paragraph. Even in the democratic countries, all institutions have some level of corruption.....Federal Government, state and local governments, Universities (high Presidents' salaries, high coaches" salaries), corporations (excessively high salaries), and even religion (Tammy Faye Baker, Billy Graham, and TV Evangelicals with private jets). If you push that corruption higher and higher, you slowly lose a middle class, propaganda increases, and eventually, you get a Dictatorship. Fortunately, most Dictators and Dictatorships don't enjoy a long life span - Putin is at about 22years, so he is overdue for a fall. Then, a country goes from anarchy to possibly democracy. But, democracies are fragile and must maintain a strong middle-class and constantly fight against corruption. I believe that it is about 50/50 whether Putin will be overthrown soon.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I agree with the last paragraph. Even in the democratic countries, all institutions have some level of corruption.....Federal Government, state and local governments, Universities (high Presidents' salaries, high coaches" salaries), corporations (excessively high salaries), and even religion (Tammy Faye Baker, Billy Graham, and TV Evangelicals with private jets). If you push that corruption higher and higher, you slowly lose a middle class, propaganda increases, and eventually, you get a Dictatorship. Fortunately, most Dictators and Dictatorships don't enjoy a long life span - Putin is at about 22years, so he is overdue for a fall. Then, a country goes from anarchy to possibly democracy. But, democracies are fragile and must maintain a strong middle-class and constantly fight against corruption. I believe that it is about 50/50 whether Putin will be overthrown soon.

Agreed.

There was a good opinion piece recently about all the strong arm authoritarians moving into positions of power around the world. The opinion was that this happens when people are unhappy, losing ground economically, and feel threatened. They look to the authoritarians to bring stability and a return to "how things were".

I have always said that "people" will not rise up against their government until they feel they have nothing left to lose. I think that reflects the same sentiment. Sadly, the US is failing to meet its citizens needs and the result is a splintering and that is not good.

Democracy only works when people have faith in it.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by NotGolfer

Great response. That said, I was going to mention China. Remember them? Also...my thoughts are that this war is a deflection of "something" that takes the world's eyes off from some things more important. Time will tell.

I suppose that everyone has a DIFFERENT "something". This war certainly won't lessen global warming and lessen Covid and other diseases. It will lower world population a small amount, likely .....but, it is not the ideal way to accomplish that. It WILL cause a lot of population relocation and refugees. 2/3 of all refugees never return to their original country. And most will want to end up in the US just in time to add to our own internal lack of cohesion!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

I was in undergrad and grad school during the 1980's. Being in the D.C. Area, we had many speakers discussing SDI and what the benefits were of it. S.D.I. was an important part of 1980's soviet - U.S. relations. It can even be said that it played an important role in the ultimate end of the Cold War. The Soviet Union was presented with a system and it's technology that they would not be able to meet financially or technologically.

Gee whizz, I remember that differently - as in wasted money going into the pockets of wealthy CEOs and large shareholders of government defense contractors. Money that could have been used to fortify a soon-to-be vanishing middle-class.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Geodyssey

Why would he do that?

And if he's in control of them (he is), why haven't they been blown up?

It might happen accidentally, but unlikely on purpose - because the prevailing winds would blow the radiation eastward toward Russia.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by mike1946

Not sure of the exact number but Russia has 6000+ nukes and the USA 5000+ but even the lowly UK with 280 Nukes has enough fire power to make a hell of a mess of the world - if everyone fires everything they've got put your head between your legs and kiss you A** goodbye.

The "Russhkies" will not dare nuke Florida. Everyone knows that after the war they will want to take a vacation to Disney World.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Petersweeney

We should take Greenland

Right, when no one's looking. Good idea!

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Right, when no one's looking. Good idea!

We could put Chinese flags on the planes and boats. I am sure no one will notice.

[jhoffha]

Actually, the Germans lost in Stalingrad, partly due to snipers which were both genders. Germans leveled the city with bombs. It was within this rubble that the Russians were able to attach the Germans at close quarters. The tactic was referred to as "hugging the enemy" which took away the Germans ability to use artillery and mortar for fear of hitting their own German forces. This was innovative strategy was introduced be the Russian commander Vasily Chuikov. As the fighting continues and the Ukrainian resolve to tested we will see this method of fighting in use against the Russians, ironically the original users against the Germans 81 years ago (1941).