When we entered, we should not have expanded the mission and stayed.

Most people agree we needed to leave -- frankly, a long time ago.

How this exit just happened is surprising.

There are still some 10,000 Americans there.

If you find out you have to have surgery, and other doctors agree in the diagnosis, then the surgery should proceed. If of all the facilities and surgeons to select, you pick a free clinic with a drunken doctor to perform the procedure with unsterile instruments, one can question your decision making. This is my issue with what just happened.

It's time to get some drones filled with Agent Orange or some other defoliant and hit the poppy fields.

The poppy fields should have been destroyed before we left. Didn't do it then, do it now!

They've been doing it for years already since we are a major buyer. The Soviets killed their other industries like shoe making.
Don't expect any change unless the Afghanis figure out a way to significantly increase production.

That's odd last time they were in power they destroyed most poppy production. New times I guess.

A long held theory was that if we engage with a non democracy like China or Afghanistan they will gradually become a democracy. We overestimated the degree to which technology could replace dedicated boots on the ground. Remember the academic Whizz Kids war planners in Vietnam. The experts were reluctant to give up their theories. How wrong they were. Our soldiers paid the price.

Not an acceptable thread
 

We get enough bad news from the media. Why is it necessary to post any of it? We all know what is happening.
I want more discussion about our local situations please

I knew it would take long for people to start complaining about something

Actually women’s groups are.

Sounds like the outgoing Afghan leader absconded with lots of cash that we taxpayers sent there to be used for the people. So at least one person is doing well. QUOTE=Toymeister;1990608]I was in Afghanistan 16 months ago. Since 2010 I have spent 2 1/2 years there I never found it to be beautiful or even remotely charming.

When we entered in 2001 our mission was to prevent Afghanistan from being a launching point for terrorists. Had we kept that in mind there would be no loss of focus or as much of a financial waste.

This may sound brutal but it is not worth the loss of one American life to ensure girls can go to school when their own families don't want that.

There is no history or desire for democracy there, there is no overwhelming commitment for national security or even a national sense of pride of any significant depth. We were chumps for believing it was even possible to extoll American beliefs there.

Afghanistan GNP is ONE TENTH of it's spending. There is no way the country can survive without international welfare.[/QUOTE]

I agree that something must be done. However to attack this from the criminal angle has been fruitless. The "War on Drugs" was declared in 1972 and we've been losing ever since. If you've been losing a war for half a century the logical thing to do is to throw in the towel and accept defeat.

What to do? Decriminalize heroin. Decriminalize ALL drugs. Make them legal, freely available and cheap. And at the same time make treatment for drug addiction freely available and cheap (or free, if need be). Realistically, the only way you can get treatment for an addiction to an illegal drug is to admit to USING an illegal drug, which is tantamount to admitting to a crime--and a lot of addicts, even though they know they need treatment, will not get it because of this fact, or continue to get high just to hide from it.

Such a move would make any effort by the Taliban to flood a country will illegal drugs moot. AND it would end the criminal activity by the drug cartels from south of the border here, as well. Win win.

This idiotic war on drugs has cost the American taxpayer far more money, and American citizens far more in deaths, shattered families and ruined lives, then drugs themselves ever did. Or could.

Sad but you are correct.

Geopolitical chess
 

. A la the domino theory which caused the korean and vietnam wars so to the afghanistan conflicts were a means to a geopolitical victory over the ussr.
The elder combatants and leaders of the current taliban were the same teenage boys in the 1980's , who armed by the cia with lethal stinger missiles climbed to the mountaintops and cost the soviets billions of dollars monthly by shooting down their aircraft and troops supplies. This event is one of the preminent reasons the ussr collapsed financially hastening the implosion of the ussr.
The rest is details, not to us average citizens, but to our government leadership hence the term given to those killed and injured as " collateral damage". This geopolitical conflict is always ongoing eg middle east and the china sea.
This current afghanistan war was punishment for aiding and abetting the 9/11 attack. Mission accomplished and over.

I disagree with the contents of this post.

A US Army soldier was on patrol and in a relaxed moment, he talked to an Afghan soldier with his unit. They started talking about the stars. The US soldier came to realize that the Afghan soldier had zero concept about the solar system. The Afghan soldiers did not understand what any of the numbers on their paychecks meant. So, Afghanistan really was a series of tribes only a little removed from the dark ages. Reasonable goals would have been to wipe out the terrorist camps, find bin Laden, and LEAVE. You can't nation-build a country that is not ready to be a nation. The CIA gets a big budget every year - either they dropped the ball or US leaders refused to listen to them 17 years ago.

The elements of batteries can be found in Afghanistan. You can bet your bottom dollar that china and russia will be making deals to get at it.

As good as it may sound on the surface, it's a really, really bad idea in reality. The last thing Afghanistan needs now, is to destroy their primary source of income, regardless of how one views on how it is derived. Talk about opening the floodgates to nefarious terrorist groups that have money, to move in and partner with the warlords, just remove the only way the average poor Afghani has to make a few bucks. Talk about utter chaos and the terrorist threats that would develop toward the rest of the world - that's the quickest way to do it. Which is exactly the reason even we didn't make a big push, to destroy all of the poppy fields.

Please Wait... | Cloudflare

Might be useful in this discussion.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. Abraham Lincoln

I agree with the contents of this post.

Getting a historical perspective is necessary
 

I love this perspective as that area of the world is resource poor for international trade and production. But the religion and the political system are the same, which makes for an ideology leadership, different from the western world of former british empire break aways and western europe.

As an ideological lead state, it carries the sins of 2,000 years with them everywhere they go. They want to fit in, but have the ideology stuck in their way. . . so they rule by power and struggle for power throughout the region. . . as they have ideology stuck in their way with the sins of 2,000 years. . .

a game or war which can't be won by humans as humans have the memories. . .

The Great Courses

This might be worth a look especially the chapter on Afghanistan and Iraq.

Thank you for posting this. I totally agree.

It's fairly obvious that the original mission was to kill terrorists, and of course they didn't like that, some have the mission expanded and nobody bothered to complain like they did in the Vietnam days (moderator I'm not being political).
We seem to have been let on a chain to discuss poppy fields, well there are a lot more worse things than cheap heroin and I in fact think if it was cheap we have a lot less crime. If you follow TV news about drugs and I mean the rabbit ears TVs, and you know Americans have a lot more problems like oxycodone, drunk drivers that still kill and these little sticks called cigarettes. The Taliban that have just done a public service announcement seem to understand how America works by Allaying fears and allowing others to leave or at least saying they will give them that chance. Who is to say what type of civilization and culture is the right one my wife may not like hearing it but there's about a billion Muslims that live with the wife staying at home with a veil and not learning much education. Star Trek pretty much I had a rule that we have learned not to touch the other civilizations because they have to grow up as they want to and every time we interfere we will be screw up. Was Afghanistan a better place 20 years ago without US troops? We will never know what will become of that area of the world has surely we will never go back there again with American troops unless unfortunately God forbid they would be another 9/11 in which case I fear some president would use an atomic bomb to simply wipe all the Muslims off the face of the Earth. Again dear moderator I'm not being political

Sorry for poor tenses or spelling
 

This was voice typed and I'm sure there was some commas and plurals missing so dear School teachers don't be upset

Daily Sun newspaper has had NO front page or second page coverage about the Afghanistan disaster! Only COVID COVID COVID!

If you want political discussions you can always use Facebook or Twitter.

No ..... wait .....

There is a book about this topic published this month
 

"Our own worst enemy", by Tom Nichols, published this month

Who is in charge of the taliban?

I don’t think flooding the west with Heroin is a new thing .

The Daily Sun newspaper still has no coverage about the Afghanistan disaster. No information on the thousands or our men and women soldiers there to protect and evacuate the ten to forty thousand Americans still sheltering in place in Afghanistan.

After all the military equipment that we have provided, there is no excuse for them to turn tail and run and not protect their own Freedom. If they won't fight for their own country, there is no reason we should. As for the heroin, that could easily be napalmed into extinction. It is amazing what unmanned drones can do today. That country is useless and nothing more than a money pit; a hole in the ground where we throw trillions into, hoping to fill it in.

Ten to forty thousand.

But, we actually did make a difference in that country. Women had freedoms, were respected and involved, even in politics, and little girls were going to school. People were happier, now they are terrified. Its already starting to change. There was a woman shot and killed 2 days ago because she didn't wear a burka. That's what bothers me the most.

A song from The Kingston Trio in 1959.

Some things don't change much.


Kingston Trio. The Merry Minuet. - Bing video

Every word you wrote is delusional. Our government went in there and tried to change the culture which they never should have done. I worked I Saudi Arabia for many years and I had Saudi coworkers that I got to know well and was introduced to the sons BUT I never met the female side of the family. I was invited to share meals and the men all ate first then the females got what was left. Bottom line, the Saudis are a very conservative culture BUT the Afghanistan people are still way more conservative than that. Afghanistan is still living several century’s in the past. The only thing they will do to become more modern is to pick up whatever technology that keeps them in power all the while clinging to their centuries old culture.

Your confusing the Sun with a newspaper that tries to inform its patrons.

It exists to tell us about what goes on here and whatever else the developer wants to inform us of. If it does not help to sell houses they see no reason to report on it.

I heard someone say, "...our Government is made up of smart people." He must have been a foreign visitor on holiday.

That’s interesting big brother is watching.Yet the Taliban are still allowed access on social media sights to spread their beliefs.

Or skipped his meds:1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl: