[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by donassaid

Requiring people to have an "experimental" vaccine that has caused thousands to get sick and dozens to die is irresponsible and unconstitutional. All this for a virus with over a 99% survival rate.

OK, let's see - EXPERIMENTAL VACCINE? Nope, not even close

KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor Dashboard | KFF
Coronavirus vaccine development: from SARS and MERS to COVID-19 - PubMed


'THOUSANDS GET SICK? Nope again!

Myths and Facts about COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC


People dying by the dozens from the vaccine? TRIFECTA! Wrong on all THREE !

No detected patterns in cause of death that would indicate a safety problem with COVID-19 vaccines.

Selected Adverse Events Reported after COVID-19 Vaccination | CDC

Ok, YOUR turn to source where your 'facts' are coming from....

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

My personal thoughts on this (up until now I have been arguing a point, not offering my feelings about it):

When we get vaccinated, we get a card. This is the current situation. I wish the card was smaller, business-card sized so it could be laminated if someone wanted to do so, and kept in a wallet without folding it.

I would be FINE with having to present it for travel over the north or south border by car, or anywhere by boat or airplane. I would also be FINE with people being told they cannot board the ship/plane without a match of that card to their ID.

I would ALSO be FINE with a stamp added to actual normal passports, to show that a person has received that (or any other) vaccine, so that no one would need that smaller card as long as they bring their passport - which also serves as identification, AND as - well - a passport.

I would be fine with any business having a policy: You may either enter and shop here wearing a mask, OR you may enter and shop here without one if you show us your card proving you were vaccinated. You may do either one.

I personally would love to go shopping without a mask on. I look forward to the day when it's considered acceptable to do it again. But I also enjoy the freedom I feel in knowing that I am immunized against the virus. As someone who is now free to enjoy my immunization, I have absolutely positively zero problem with showing anyone who wants to see it, that card. In fact I posted it on my facebook account, which is open to the public.

I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with showing their covid vaccine card. You can even cover up the ID number with a little post-it strip so they can see your name and the clinic's official stamp and the dates of whichever vaccine you had, but not your personally-identifying ID number.

It's really not a big deal, except to people who are choosing to make it one.

excellent comment. makes perfect sense.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

I'd like to respectfully throw something out there for discussion and perhaps we can learn a bit from each other.

Our governor has said he will prohibit vaccine passports which would require us to prove we've been vaccinated in order to gain access to some businesses, offices, or restaurants.

I find it interesting because it speaks to how we all want the best for our country; we just approach it in different ways. Conservatives are not fond of government interference in general, but they support this proposal. Liberals are generally okay with government regulation but do indeed want a vaccine passport which DeSantis is opposing.

Just goes to show modern American life is not all cut and dried. We all have to give a little.

If you want to respond but feel the need to be belligerent or snarky, please move on to the next thread. Thanks.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Says He'll Ban Vaccine Passports

If you open your link it states: “Vaccine passports are being developed or introduced in dozens of countries around the world and have been touted as a means for businesses that were shut during the pandemic to reopen safely.”
Thanks to our governor, our state hasn’t been shutdown. Unlike states that had oppressive mandates, we have remained mostly open and have faired as well or better than those states with oppressive mandates. Are you really trying to spin the idea that if a state like Pennsylvania, with oppressive mandates, used a vaccine passport to reopen, it would constitute less government regulation than Florida’s policy?!? The concept you are trying to spin is truly absurd.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

My personal thoughts on this (up until now I have been arguing a point, not offering my feelings about it):


.....

I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with showing their covid vaccine card. You can even cover up the ID number with a little post-it strip so they can see your name and the clinic's official stamp and the dates of whichever vaccine you had, but not your personally-identifying ID number.

It's really not a big deal, except to people who are choosing to make it one.

That sounds a lot like, "if you have nothing to hide then you won't mind allowing the police to search your house." No, it's not the same level of intrusion but it is still an intrusion.

My personal opinion is I've seen enough and experienced enough that I value my freedom and my privacy; I want to protect mine and protect others as well. What frightens me is the argument that I should be willing to give up my freedom and privacy because someone else is willing to give up theirs.

[Bertram00]

Originally Posted by Vikingjunior

Walmart, Publix, Panera etc. can't even enforce their mask requirements, do you really think these businesses are going to check everybody's papers. Vaccine Passports are a pipe dream, it's never going to happen move on.

They can but they won't because they are really only concerned with one thing - the bottom line, and don't want to alienate the anti-maskers who claim their "Rights" are being infringed (the same folks who had no problem with the freedoms they lost after 9/11 with the Patriot Act because it was them there darn A-rabs!).

[Tbrazie]

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald

naw, you are missing the point. Covid, a worldwide pandemic, has killed more people in 12 months than HPV, Flu, Shingles, etc has in 50 years.

And many countries will require it anyway - plus airlines, cruiseships, etc...

Reality is, I'm a fan of the Governor, but this policy - having the vaccine and the passport - is the fastest way to get the world on track

Flu about 60,000 a year since 2010. Not saying that Covid is not a huge pandemic, but keep to the facts as reported by CDC. Also keep in mind that every Covid death is reported. The Flu data is estimated. Still, don't downplay the flu. Just saying.

[lpkruege1]

I can't believe that we would put something so racist into existence. Your poorer communities may not have the funds for the vaccine and now you want them to carry a card for travel, to be employed, to go to the grocery store, or possibly community events? Isn't that the argument people use for against an ID to vote? or Maybe we should put a picture on it, a state stamp, a magnetic code and use it as your ID to vote too. Just saying.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by lpkruege1

I can't believe that we would put something so racist into existence. Your poorer communities may not have the funds for the vaccine and now you want them to carry a card for travel, to be employed, to go to the grocery store, or possibly community events? Isn't that the argument people use for against an ID to vote? or Maybe we should put a picture on it, a state stamp, a magnetic code and use it as your ID to vote too. Just saying.

The vaccine is being paid for and provided by the US Government, there is no cost for the vaccine.

There are groups that a vaccine passport would discriminate against but none of them are based on race.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by petiteone

From the Medical Journals I've read - At this stage it is stated that the vaccine doesn't protect one from getting COVID, it is effective in preventing vaccinated individuals dying from it. How much or how long a person vaccinated or one recovering from Covid is protected long term is still unknown. (I'm a retired MD)

Come on, as a MD you have to know better than that. What is the point of a worldwide vaccination program that does not curb the spread of disease. Are we just protecting individuals one at a time??? What kind of vaccine raises antibodies to a virus but the person can still catch the disease and spread it??? Again, it seems to come down to one article that questioned whether a vaccinated individual could temporarily harbor enough virus in their nasopharynx to spread COVID for a short time. And the authors were simply questioning it and suggested more research is needed.

But the reasons I oppose a "vaccine passport" were listed explicitly in a previous post

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Heyitsrick

Actually, it was your question to answer. And now we see that you mean "they should be free to choose (well, except when there are exceptions, that is)".

See, the problem you have is that you want to paint DeSantis with this broad brush, claiming he's being anti-conservative somehow. But he doesn't see this as a "freedom to choose for businesses" issue. He sees it as a governmental intrusion issue on the people. DeSantis was elected by the people of Florida, not the private businesses of Florida. He's saying the people have the right to choose, unencumbered by other concerns.

You're free to disagree with his point of view, of course. But it's a little odd that not requiring his state's residents to have to show a vaccination passport is somehow anti-conservative. Well, that is unless you buy into the notion that conservative folks only care about businesses and not individuals.

Side note: your note to the mods to retire this thread because people aren't getting it is due to the way you wrote part of the post:



What proposal? Having a vaccine passport? Yes, we know now you actually meant DeSantis's "proposal" to prohibit requiring a vaccine passport in the state. You've had to clarify what you meant more than once, when simply editing the original post could have sufficed.

You're right, Rick. When I said this in the original post:

"Our governor has said he will prohibit vaccine passports... Conservatives are not fond of government interference in general, but they support this proposal."...

I thought readers would know the proposal is to prohibit vaccine passports, not require them, because the proposal is described in a preceding sentence. But I get it, we all read social media quickly... because there's so darn much of it... that we sometimes don't get the whole picture. I'm guilty of it too. And the fact that the title of the thread is "Vaccine Passports?" might lead some to believe that that is the proposal in question.

Thanks for pointing that out. I have made the revision accordingly in my original post.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

That sounds a lot like, "if you have nothing to hide then you won't mind allowing the police to search your house." No, it's not the same level of intrusion but it is still an intrusion.

My personal opinion is I've seen enough and experienced enough that I value my freedom and my privacy; I want to protect mine and protect others as well. What frightens me is the argument that I should be willing to give up my freedom and privacy because someone else is willing to give up theirs.

It's not like that at all. It's more like: if you're not planning on robbing the bank or passing a bad check, you won't have any problem with showing your ID when you get to the teller.

What happens in YOUR house - is between you and your household.

You can't have it both ways. You can say "this baker can refuse service to a customer because of the baker's religious beliefs" but you can't turn around and then say "this baker can refuse to allow you into the building without a mask or proof of immunity."

Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone, as long as it doesn't violate the customers' civil rights (except in the case of that baker and his religious beliefs, apparently). But if you come knocking at my door, and I tell you that you can't come in unless you show me your ID, you have the right to refuse to show it. And I have the right to refuse to allow you in.

Easy peasy.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Originally Posted by Swoop

The concept you are trying to spin is truly absurd.

Hi Swoop, and thanks for weighing in with your unique perspective!

I am not spinning any concept at all. Where have I expressed my opinion on the pros and cons of banning or allowing a vaccine passport? In fact in a follow up to my original post I emphasized that the point of the thread is not the pros and cons of a vaccine passport. It's about conservative/liberal values, overlap of those values, and the need to work together.

But I forgive your insulting comment that my writing is absurd. I realize you misunderstood. Bless your heart.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

Hi Swoop, and thanks for weighing in with your unique perspective!

I am not spinning any concept at all. Where have I expressed my opinion on the pros and cons of banning or allowing a vaccine passport? In fact in a follow up to my original post I emphasized that the point of the thread is not the pros and cons of a vaccine passport. It's about conservative/liberal values, overlap of those values, and the need to work together.

But I forgive your insulting comment that my writing is absurd. I realize you misunderstood. Bless your heart.

Somehow you are trying to represent the governor’s position against a vaccine passport as more government interference as opposed to less. That is the spin I am referring to. I did not comment on the pros or cons of a vaccine passport, just on your assertion that the governor’s stance is somehow more government regulation...

[sloanst]

Let each business make their own requirements. If you enter a business that requires a immunization passport and you don't care for that, then you can go elsewhere. Vice Versa as well. Each business and individual can make their own decision and suffer the consequences.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by sloanst

Let each business make their own requirements. If you enter a business that requires a immunization passport and you don't care for that, then you can go elsewhere. Vice Versa as well. Each business and individual can make their own decision and suffer the consequences.

You do that and you’ve started down a slippery slope. You are are referring to private businesses that are open to the general public, not private clubs that control who their members are and what they can do.
So what would be the justification for discriminating against those without a passport? Safety of others or to punish those who choose not to get the vaccine? Because either way, you are opening up Pandora’s Box...