Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr (Post 1873495)

I'd be a bit careful about that. The vaccine is going to require two doses. About a month apart. The first will be about 50% effective in preventing the vaccine and the second about 95% effective. I'll go back to normal after the second dose.

Originally Posted by skip0358 (Post 1873717)

Strange I've gotten the flu shot and I still get the flu.
Gotten the Pneumonia shot and still got Pneumonia.
Had the shingles shot and still got the dreaded shingles.

We'll see how this Covid shot works after many many have gotten it!

Originally Posted by Get real (Post 1874114)

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1874143)

Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Unfortunately, it would take several paragraphs to explain all that is misleading about this picture. But in short:

Immune? Not on the day of vaccination and probably not until several days after the second dose. So true, not immune as the needle goes into your arm but on the path to immunity.

Mask? The vaccine prevents you from contracting the disease but possibly not from becoming infected. Masks protect those around you from the infection that you spread to them. Since you can still become infected and since others can still become sick, masks are still necessary.

Manufacturer Liability? This might already be a standard thing in the US. If not, the manufacturer would likely be happy spending a few more years on development and testing. We are at a current rate of about 400,000 deaths per year; would you rather hold the manufacturer harmless or continue to bet you or your loved ones won't be in next group of 400,000?

Why did I do this? Personal choice and a wise bet.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1874340)

Bottom line, when I'm fully immune at 95% and 100% of not having severe disease, my mask comes OFF and will remain OFF. To those who are not able to take the vaccine, sorry but just stay away from me because I will NOT be wearing a mask.

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1873994)

You are mistaken in your explanation of how the effectiveness of the vaccine was calculated. In the Pfizer vaccine study there was ~95% protection against clinical COVID meaning the patient was ill with COVID whether mild moderate or severe. It did not look at subclinical disease so some vaccinated persons might have caught COVID but not developed any symptoms but still be capable of spreading the virus to others.

The other way to express this is that for every 20 people who get sick with COVID, if they'd gotten the vaccine 19 would not have gotten sick. You are correct that the duration of immunity from being vaccinated is unknown. It will be important to understand that ongoing post-vaccination studies will partly answer that in the next year. One small factor is that while there is lots of COVID in the community, those who have been vaccinated may encounter the wild virus which will act as an immune booster for them. Once there is far less disease circulating that natural booster from exposure will disappear and later follow up studies may show a shorter duration of protection than the earlier studies.

This happened with chicken pox vaccine which when first offered seemed to be giving extremely long protection without breakthrough cases in those vaccinated children. But they were going to school with lots of unvaccinated kids and being exposed to wild chicken pox. Once almost every child was protected there began to be seen more breakthrough cases and a booster dose was recommended. That plan has worked very well.

Originally Posted by Get real (Post 1874114)

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1874340)

I will be taking the risk to be vaccinated. I will not worry anymore about the health of others around me. They could also take the same risk I will be taking and get themselves vaccinated.

Bottom line, when I'm fully immune at 95% and 100% of not having severe disease, my mask comes OFF and will remain OFF. To those who are not able to take the vaccine, sorry but just stay away from me because I will NOT be wearing a mask.

Originally Posted by Get real (Post 1874114)

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.

Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 1873424)

Am I the only one who hates that the news programs are constantly showing someone getting stuck with a needle?

I wish they would stop that.

Originally Posted by bill14564 (Post 1874387)

many people are saying that today - just stay away if you don't want to get sick. Many others are ferociously criticizing them for not caring about those around them. all of a sudden when you are safe things change?

i know my place in line is far behind many on this board. I would like a little consideration then, just as i am being considerate now.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1874533)

Yup! I'm going to do my part for our country to reach herd immunity. That, to me, is the most patriotic thing anyone can do. Anyone who is able to be vaccinated but chooses not to be vaccinated is not my concern anymore. Sorry.

Those who have to wait for the vaccine will just have to continue to wear masks and social distance themselves from others. That is what I plan to do until I'm vaccinated. All bets are off when I'm immune. My mask comes for good!

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1874591)

Paraphrasing: "I feel I am safe therefore I will do nothing that inconveniences me. I don't care how it affects others, that's their problem."

You don't even understand how that statement makes you exactly the same as the never-maskers today. Very sad.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1874600)

I do not agree at all with your paraphrased statement. As I said earlier, I will be taking the risk of being vaccinated. There are benefits to taking that risk and that is the ability to go back to a normal life. I will be helping this country reach a safe herd immunity. What about this do you not understand?