[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

I'd be a bit careful about that. The vaccine is going to require two doses. About a month apart. The first will be about 50% effective in preventing the vaccine and the second about 95% effective. I'll go back to normal after the second dose.

I heard on MSM that the Pfizer vaccine has a 95% efficacy for preventing infection and 100% efficacy for preventing severe Covid illness. So....I understand that to mean that the 5% who are vulnerable to Covid illness will not ever have severe illness. That's good enough for me.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by skip0358

Strange I've gotten the flu shot and I still get the flu.
Gotten the Pneumonia shot and still got Pneumonia.
Had the shingles shot and still got the dreaded shingles.

We'll see how this Covid shot works after many many have gotten it!

Did you have minor cases of the flu, pneumonia and shingles after receiving the vaccines?

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Get real

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.

Covid has been very dangerous to over 300,000 Americans who have died and many more Americans who will endure long lasting effects, and maybe lasting for the rest of their lives. When the vaccine is available to me, I'll be rolling up my sleeve so I don't have to worry any more about contracting a potentially deadly virus.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Unfortunately, it would take several paragraphs to explain all that is misleading about this picture. But in short:

Immune? Not on the day of vaccination and probably not until several days after the second dose. So true, not immune as the needle goes into your arm but on the path to immunity.

Mask? The vaccine prevents you from contracting the disease but possibly not from becoming infected. Masks protect those around you from the infection that you spread to them. Since you can still become infected and since others can still become sick, masks are still necessary.

Manufacturer Liability? This might already be a standard thing in the US. If not, the manufacturer would likely be happy spending a few more years on development and testing. We are at a current rate of about 400,000 deaths per year; would you rather hold the manufacturer harmless or continue to bet you or your loved ones won't be in next group of 400,000?

Why did I do this? Personal choice and a wise bet.

I will be taking the risk to be vaccinated. I will not worry anymore about the health of others around me. They could also take the same risk I will be taking and get themselves vaccinated.

Bottom line, when I'm fully immune at 95% and 100% of not having severe disease, my mask comes OFF and will remain OFF. To those who are not able to take the vaccine, sorry but just stay away from me because I will NOT be wearing a mask.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Bottom line, when I'm fully immune at 95% and 100% of not having severe disease, my mask comes OFF and will remain OFF. To those who are not able to take the vaccine, sorry but just stay away from me because I will NOT be wearing a mask.

The one's opting to not wear masks now will be the same one's that won't get the vaccine. You will never know.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by blueash

You are mistaken in your explanation of how the effectiveness of the vaccine was calculated. In the Pfizer vaccine study there was ~95% protection against clinical COVID meaning the patient was ill with COVID whether mild moderate or severe. It did not look at subclinical disease so some vaccinated persons might have caught COVID but not developed any symptoms but still be capable of spreading the virus to others.

The other way to express this is that for every 20 people who get sick with COVID, if they'd gotten the vaccine 19 would not have gotten sick. You are correct that the duration of immunity from being vaccinated is unknown. It will be important to understand that ongoing post-vaccination studies will partly answer that in the next year. One small factor is that while there is lots of COVID in the community, those who have been vaccinated may encounter the wild virus which will act as an immune booster for them. Once there is far less disease circulating that natural booster from exposure will disappear and later follow up studies may show a shorter duration of protection than the earlier studies.

This happened with chicken pox vaccine which when first offered seemed to be giving extremely long protection without breakthrough cases in those vaccinated children. But they were going to school with lots of unvaccinated kids and being exposed to wild chicken pox. Once almost every child was protected there began to be seen more breakthrough cases and a booster dose was recommended. That plan has worked very well.

Thank you!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Get real

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.

What a disservice to "friends"!

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I will be taking the risk to be vaccinated. I will not worry anymore about the health of others around me. They could also take the same risk I will be taking and get themselves vaccinated.

Bottom line, when I'm fully immune at 95% and 100% of not having severe disease, my mask comes OFF and will remain OFF. To those who are not able to take the vaccine, sorry but just stay away from me because I will NOT be wearing a mask.

Many people are saying that today - just stay away if you don't want to get sick. Many others are ferociously criticizing them for not caring about those around them. All of a sudden when YOU are safe things change?

I know my place in line is far behind many on this board. I would like a little consideration then, just as I am being considerate now.

[Velvet]

Originally Posted by Get real

Here is my current reasoning for why I won't take the vaccine. I've convinced my family and most of my friends to not take it as well.

1. These mRNA vaccines are a completely new form of vaccine, the first using this immunization principle that's being made available to the public. There is no vaccine based on this principle that is already approved anywhere in the world. It is not reasonable to take reference data and compare with existing approval for a novel medical principle.

2. These new vaccines have undergone much less testing than what is usual for vaccines. Usually it takes upwards to five years, starting with animal testing, then going through several clinical phases. This has been reduced down to a few months for this one. In the traditional vaccine testing, adverse reactions are recorded both soon after the vaccine is taken, as well as at least a year later in the control groups. This yearly follow-up is in the WHO guidelines for clinical evaluation of vaccines. Pfizer expects their study to be complete in 2023, three years after mass vaccination began. In my opinion, for a new medical principle, there should be more testing, not less.

3. In the UK where mass-vaccination now has begun, producers of Covid vaccines have been granted a legal indemnity protecting them from liability and from being sued over any problems with the vaccine. Such legislation already exists in the US for vaccines in general. Producers of these experimental Covid-19 vaccines are requiring such legislation be in place before they sell their vaccines to a country. This is unacceptable.

I'm not about to subject myself to not properly tested, experimental medicine to prevent a disease that's not particularly dangerous.

Can I presume you won’t drive a car either because it is recent technology relative to horses etc.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Am I the only one who hates that the news programs are constantly showing someone getting stuck with a needle?

I wish they would stop that.

It is not so bad at all. I think of this vaccine as an invitation for all of our bodies protective elements to armor up. It truly is an enormous victory from a lot of very dedicated and extremely smart people who stayed focused and achieved this miracle in an amazingly short time.

I would far rather look at that jab than listen to the jabber from the mouthy politicians and read the forgone conclusions written by the opinionated writers.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by bill14564

many people are saying that today - just stay away if you don't want to get sick. Many others are ferociously criticizing them for not caring about those around them. all of a sudden when you are safe things change?

i know my place in line is far behind many on this board. I would like a little consideration then, just as i am being considerate now.

Yup! I'm going to do my part for our country to reach herd immunity. That, to me, is the most patriotic thing anyone can do. Anyone who is able to be vaccinated but chooses not to be vaccinated is not my concern anymore. Sorry.

Those who have to wait for the vaccine will just have to continue to wear masks and social distance themselves from others. That is what I plan to do until I'm vaccinated and immune then, my mask comes OFF for good! I will not ever feel the need to protect others who fail to protect themselves. Those folks who have refused to wear masks since this pandemic began will not be a concern for me anymore. Why should anyone do that once they are immune?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Yup! I'm going to do my part for our country to reach herd immunity. That, to me, is the most patriotic thing anyone can do. Anyone who is able to be vaccinated but chooses not to be vaccinated is not my concern anymore. Sorry.

Those who have to wait for the vaccine will just have to continue to wear masks and social distance themselves from others. That is what I plan to do until I'm vaccinated. All bets are off when I'm immune. My mask comes for good!

Paraphrasing: "I feel I am safe therefore I will do nothing that inconveniences me. I don't care how it affects others, that's their problem."

You don't even understand how that statement makes you exactly the same as the never-maskers today. Very sad.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Paraphrasing: "I feel I am safe therefore I will do nothing that inconveniences me. I don't care how it affects others, that's their problem."

You don't even understand how that statement makes you exactly the same as the never-maskers today. Very sad.

I do not agree at all with your paraphrased statement. As I said earlier, I will be assuming some risk by being vaccinated. There are benefits to taking that risk and that is the ability to go back to a normal life. I will be helping this country reach a safe herd immunity. What about this do you not understand?

[Byte1]

Get the vaccination or don't get it. Your choice. Same as with the Flu shot, some get it and some don't. There will always be illnesses, some fatal. Once the vaccine is available here, I will take off the mask permanently whether I get the shot or not.

I did read some crazy article where someone said that the gov. was thinking of putting markers in the shot so that others would be able to tell if someone had the vaccination or not. It was to be able to verify the vaccination for travel purposes, etc. The area of the shot would supposedly be visible to the naked eye. Sounds kind of far fetched to me, but knowing how some folks want a gov nanny to protect them, I guess it is not totally impossible to believe that some could come up with something this ridiculous. Just another conspiracy theory, I hope.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I do not agree at all with your paraphrased statement. As I said earlier, I will be taking the risk of being vaccinated. There are benefits to taking that risk and that is the ability to go back to a normal life. I will be helping this country reach a safe herd immunity. What about this do you not understand?

You are helping yourself and the country overall by taking the vaccine. Good for you, I will be doing the same.

Where we disagree is your attitude that once YOU are immune you can stop wearing the mask. Even though you might infect those of us less fortunate than you that have to wait longer for the vaccine, YOU are immune so the rest of us can fend for ourselves.

Today there are many people who are either immune or young enough to expect minor symptoms. Using your logic, why should they wear masks? They have already helped their country by becoming immune or they are currently helping their country by attempting to become immune and adding to herd immunity. One of the benefits of taking that risk should be the ability to go back to a normal life. Sure, they can still infect both of us but that is not their problem, they have taken the risk to help their country and now they should get the benefits of taking that risk.

I will understand your position better when you start advocating that anyone that has already had the virus and anyone under 40 can stop wearing masks today.