Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1980267)

Misinformation ........begets propaganda........begets dictatorship!

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1979991)

Scientific literacy it useful if you are going to cite something.. Please look again at the chart which led you to conclude that "the majority of unvaccinated are in the black population"

The chart the OP posted reports that 36% of Black folks have received at least one dose, thus 64% have not. As they represent 12% of the US population, per the same KFF report, that means that unvaccinated Blacks are 7.6% of the US population. 41% of whites have not received any shots. Whites are 61% of the US population.

Do the math. Unvaccinated whites are 25% of the US population. Now tell me again how "the majority of the unvaccinated are in the black population." The title of this thread is Who are the Naughty antivaxxer refusenicks?

Using the KFF data and a population of 333 million in the US there are about 83 million unvaccinated whites and 25 million unvaccinated Blacks. Keep in mind that the KFF data is NOT age adjusted. They simply looked at total numbers. As it is well known that the average age of both Black and Hispanic Americans is lower than whites because of life expectancy and birth rates, it is worth adding that far fewer people of color have qualified to be vaccinated.

The median age for whites per Pew analysis of census data in 2018 was 44. The median is the age where half the people are older and half younger. The median for Blacks is 34 and Hispanics is 30. Far more whites have been eligible for vaccination for longer periods as the age criteria have liberalized.

Again, I will point out that the best predictor of being a naughty refusenik is not ethnicity.

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 1980222)

You are wrong. There is no adjustment for political party in any racial or ethnic group. Read what I wrote again, and do the math yourself. I made absolutely zero comment about the political party of the vaccine refusers in the post you quoted. If you are interested in how political party alters vaccine acceptance, there is data available. I did link to a report examining vaccine refusers. It is not "my poll", it is not a poll at all. "An ongoing research project tracking the public’s attitudes and experiences with COVID-19 vaccinations."

For further edification, if you are interested and capable, I'd recommend reading another report from KFF.

It examines the attitude and reasons of those who have not been vaccinated. An important, very important, variable examined is people who report they are hesitant awaiting more information [these are people who have been waiting but eventually mostly getting shots] vs those who refuse and have no intention of getting a shot no matter what. Data is available. Interpretation is not difficult.

Originally Posted by drstevens (Post 1980086)

As a scientist, I extensively studied the pros and cons of receiving the "experimental" vaccine. I discovered the pharmaceuticals have received immunity from liability, conflicting animal trials where many animals died after several months, the side-effects were more prevalent than all previous vaccines, and the media and medical profession essentially ignoring the benefits of natural immunity. Also, the blatant obfuscation of any treatment other than the vaccines i.e. benefits of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
OUR STORY (condensed): My wife and I were exposed to covid19 on January 26 and both tested positive. I had a runny nose and a two-hour fever of 100.4. I feel fine and still have the antibodies after six months.
My wife had a cough for two-days and was lethargic. She still tested positive for covid19 after five months. Last month she took the five day treatment of hydroxychloroquine with zinc and now no longer tests positive for covid19 and has her energy back.
OUR RESEARCH (condensed): Tons of research is available pro-vaccine, not so much for anti-vaccine, with many sites blocked. Several sources we found were Media – Americas Frontline Doctors, The COVID Blog - Official blog of COVID Legal USA. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant., and the confusing government adverse effects reporting website The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request. I have lost the source, but about 40% of employees at three government health agencies (including Fauchi's) have supposedly refused to get the vaccine.
CONCLUSION: We will never take any vaccine or drug that is experimental, especially where the mfg. is immune from liability AND THE LONG TERM SIDE-EFFECTS ARE UNKNOWN. Also, we both have the antibodies and test negative for covid19. My doctor has told me not to consider the vaccine as long as I have the antibodies and am on chemo for multiple myeloma. I do not wish to get in to a long diatribe about the vaccine, but do your own research, be informed and educated and make the best decision for you and your family. Ignore those who try to build themselves up by tearing others down who do not agree with them.
I hope you found this helpful. Good luck and stay heathy!

Originally Posted by drstevens (Post 1980086)

As a scientist, I extensively studied the pros and cons of receiving the "experimental" vaccine. I discovered the pharmaceuticals have received immunity from liability, conflicting animal trials where many animals died after several months, the side-effects were more prevalent than all previous vaccines, and the media and medical profession essentially ignoring the benefits of natural immunity. Also, the blatant obfuscation of any treatment other than the vaccines i.e. benefits of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.
OUR STORY (condensed): My wife and I were exposed to covid19 on January 26 and both tested positive. I had a runny nose and a two-hour fever of 100.4. I feel fine and still have the antibodies after six months.
My wife had a cough for two-days and was lethargic. She still tested positive for covid19 after five months. Last month she took the five day treatment of hydroxychloroquine with zinc and now no longer tests positive for covid19 and has her energy back.
OUR RESEARCH (condensed): Tons of research is available pro-vaccine, not so much for anti-vaccine, with many sites blocked. Several sources we found were Media – Americas Frontline Doctors, The COVID Blog - Official blog of COVID Legal USA. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant., and the confusing government adverse effects reporting website The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) Request. I have lost the source, but about 40% of employees at three government health agencies (including Fauchi's) have supposedly refused to get the vaccine.
CONCLUSION: We will never take any vaccine or drug that is experimental, especially where the mfg. is immune from liability AND THE LONG TERM SIDE-EFFECTS ARE UNKNOWN. Also, we both have the antibodies and test negative for covid19. My doctor has told me not to consider the vaccine as long as I have the antibodies and am on chemo for multiple myeloma. I do not wish to get in to a long diatribe about the vaccine, but do your own research, be informed and educated and make the best decision for you and your family. Ignore those who try to build themselves up by tearing others down who do not agree with them.
I hope you found this helpful. Good luck and stay heathy!

Originally Posted by Proveone (Post 1979945)

Your chart is one source and the percentages are very close. Lower socioeconomic populations have less access to medical care/vaccine. The problem with Covid 19 is not how or where it started but rather the poor/incompletent reponse by the previous US administration. We were warned about the possibility of a pandemic years ago.

Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 1979530)

We are witnessing the re-introduction of the fear factor.
With covid on the decline the decision makers were facing a lack of leverage....fear!

Walenski is the new Fauci flip flopper!

Originally Posted by jbartle1 (Post 1980282)

Pleeeease, the virus has changed, hence, science direction also changes.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1979877)

Have you had the shot?

I don't know how history will look at it, but this is a scary virus and it could continue to mutate unless we get it stopped. History may not have folks to record this nasty possibility.

Originally Posted by lkagele (Post 1980284)

Yes, I've had the shots. I'm in the age bracket that is most at risk. I don't, however, get upset of younger folks refusing the vaccination. It's a 'my body, my choice' type of thing and I don't believe the unvaccinated pose a great risk to me.

No one around to record this history? A little alarmist, don't you think? And, the vaccine isn't going to stop this virus. It's becoming more and more apparent that the vaccinated continue to contract the disease. Thankfully, in most of those cases, the symptoms are minor. I suspect this virus is going to out live all of us here in TV.

Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 1979569)

It will be interesting to see the particular study that found vaccinated individuals with high viral loads and what the frequency of "rare cases" really is. Some of this might be grasping at straws to find justification for a desired action.

People are getting sick and hospitals are filling - something needs to be done. It is the unvaccinated that are filling the hospitals so it appears vaccinations would solve the problem. Masking of the unvaccinated might also solve the problem, or at least slow it, but the past two months have shown that the unvaccinated won't wear masks if the vaccinated aren't wearing masks. You can tell the vaccinated they really, really need to wear masks and get vaccinated, but the past several months have shown that won't happen. So what can you do?

(Apologizing for the phrase, but ...) Why not kill two birds with one stone. If the unvaccinated won't wear masks when the vaccinated don't and if it's that important to get the masks on then force the vaccinated to wear masks too. "Because we said so" only goes so far but if you can show that the vaccinated can transmit the virus too then you have a reason to force it. Conveniently, along comes a report that shows high viral loads of Delta in vaccinated individuals.

But, "two birds?" Yes. The real answer is to get the unvaccinated to take the shot and stop spreading, stop filling hospitals, and stop dying. Carrots have already been tried with little effect so bring on the sticks. 186M vaccinated folks who have to go back to masking because of the unvaccinated may be able to provide a bit more "encouragement." And, if that doesn't work, you could also determine that vaccine mandates are legal, even before full FDA approval, and start rolling those out as well.

Part of the role of the CDC is to provide recommendations on how to stop this pandemic. They will try understand the virus and recommend ways to attack it, but they can also try to understand human nature and recommend approaches to improve the odds of success. It will be interesting to see the particular study that this latest approach was based on.

Originally Posted by lkagele (Post 1980284)

Yes, I've had the shots. I'm in the age bracket that is most at risk. I don't, however, get upset of younger folks refusing the vaccination. It's a 'my body, my choice' type of thing and I don't believe the unvaccinated pose a great risk to me.

No one around to record this history? A little alarmist, don't you think? And, the vaccine isn't going to stop this virus. It's becoming more and more apparent that the vaccinated continue to contract the disease. Thankfully, in most of those cases, the symptoms are minor. I suspect this virus is going to out live all of us here in TV.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1980104)

First of all, very sorry to hear you have MM, but that is really the reason to avoid the vaccine in your case, especially actively receiving chemo. The "antibodies" you have are really not the sine qua non of COVID immunity. It turns out there are multiple antibodies involved, and we simply don't have a good test to determine which ones confer immunity (yet).

There should be no problem finding "anti-vaccine" web sites---just google conspiracy theories, so despite your user name, I have to question whether you are a medical doctor or just happen to have 1st and middle initials of "d" and "r"

Lastly, I am always skeptical of any post that advises people to "do their own research" Most people don't have the background in science or medicine to understand the literature nor make a reasonable conclusion. That's why we have EXPERTS to evaluate the data and advise the decision makers and inform the public. We can't have millions of "Dr. Googles" out there making their own decisions based on their "own research"

And as far as some of the treatments you mentioned, they are basically unproven. And even if they have some utility, they are after the fact treatments for active COVID. Much better to prevent it in the first place. It's pretty amazing that anti-vaxxers like to state the vaccine isn't "FDA" approved, even though it has emergency approval in this emergency, yet point to a whole array of alternative "treatments" that will never have FDA approval.

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1980174)

Masks are NOT going to make the virus go away. I have no intention of wearing a mask in public the rest of my life. I tried to be reasonable about wearing them BEFORE the vaccination, but not any more. I am not interested in protecting those that refuse to be vaccinated. I would expect no more from you all if I did not wish vaccination. I do not get the flu shot and have never had the flu, but I would not blame you if or when I do ever catch the flu.. It is my responsibility, not anyone else's. Do not force me to wear a mask when I cannot catch the virus or transmit it. If I knew that I was going to have to wear a mask the rest of my life, I would never have gotten vaccinated. We are sending a great message to folks by telling them that they will still have to wear a mask after getting vaccinated to protect them from infection.
Common sense anyone?