[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

The comment did not say that or even imply that. If they say nothing and it gets worse, then they are blamed for hiding the truth, if they discuss possible things that could happen then they are accused of fear-mongering.

That was just a bit of "tongue in cheek". Sorry you missed that. LOL.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Does he really not understand the statement or is he misinterpreting it intentionally?

Probably a bit of both

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Yes, that was a copy/paste with a statement attributed to the CDC.

But here:


and in your response to two others in this thread, and in another thread you interpret the statement to indicate that a vaccinated individual can have HIGHER viral loads than an unvaccinated. That is not at all what the statement said, as was pointed out in a reply to your post.

Do you misunderstand that the statement is saying the there have been some cases where the viral loads may be the same or do you understand that but want to push the idea that the viral loads in vaccinated individuals may be higher than those in unvaccinated?

Correct, I should have said "as high" not higher. Really doesn't matter though, if vaccinated people can carry virus loads equal to the unvaccinated and also spread the disease, that's very bad news. Something has scared them, the last thing they want to do is tell the vaccinated to start wearing masks again, and yet they are doing just that.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Here we go again, "fear-mongering" accusation for anyone that says anything some people disagree with. The ENTIRE world is complicit in this conspiracy to drive people into a panic over the virus.

There is fear, and then there is fear.

I read a story the day before yesterday, that the University of Wisconsin system is offering $7,000 scholarships to University students who have so far not gotten vaccinated.

If this bug is a thing to be so feared--why do supposedly intelligent people need such a large financial bribe to get it? Seems to me that if all those the-sky-is-falling stories were true, that people would be beating down the doors of clinics just to get their shots.

Instead, we have bribes.

Any good reason for this?

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW

Correct, I should have said "as high" not higher. Really doesn't matter though, if vaccinated people can carry virus loads equal to the unvaccinated and also spread the disease, that's very bad news. Something has scared them, the last thing they want to do is tell the vaccinated to start wearing masks again, and yet they are doing just that.

It will be interesting to see the particular study that found vaccinated individuals with high viral loads and what the frequency of "rare cases" really is. Some of this might be grasping at straws to find justification for a desired action.

People are getting sick and hospitals are filling - something needs to be done. It is the unvaccinated that are filling the hospitals so it appears vaccinations would solve the problem. Masking of the unvaccinated might also solve the problem, or at least slow it, but the past two months have shown that the unvaccinated won't wear masks if the vaccinated aren't wearing masks. You can tell the vaccinated they really, really need to wear masks and get vaccinated, but the past several months have shown that won't happen. So what can you do?

(Apologizing for the phrase, but ...) Why not kill two birds with one stone. If the unvaccinated won't wear masks when the vaccinated don't and if it's that important to get the masks on then force the vaccinated to wear masks too. "Because we said so" only goes so far but if you can show that the vaccinated can transmit the virus too then you have a reason to force it. Conveniently, along comes a report that shows high viral loads of Delta in vaccinated individuals.

But, "two birds?" Yes. The real answer is to get the unvaccinated to take the shot and stop spreading, stop filling hospitals, and stop dying. Carrots have already been tried with little effect so bring on the sticks. 186M vaccinated folks who have to go back to masking because of the unvaccinated may be able to provide a bit more "encouragement." And, if that doesn't work, you could also determine that vaccine mandates are legal, even before full FDA approval, and start rolling those out as well.

Part of the role of the CDC is to provide recommendations on how to stop this pandemic. They will try understand the virus and recommend ways to attack it, but they can also try to understand human nature and recommend approaches to improve the odds of success. It will be interesting to see the particular study that this latest approach was based on.

[fishon]

S=K,
Why are you so scared?
Are you suffering from some morbidly?
Your virtue flag does wave.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by wisbad1

Way too much to read.

You didn't miss much

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

That was just a bit of "tongue in cheek". Sorry you missed that. LOL.

Oops, sorry, my bad.

Guess I need to chill a little

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

There is fear, and then there is fear.

I read a story the day before yesterday, that the University of Wisconsin system is offering $7,000 scholarships to University students who have so far not gotten vaccinated.

If this bug is a thing to be so feared--why do supposedly intelligent people need such a large financial bribe to get it? Seems to me that if all those the-sky-is-falling stories were true, that people would be beating down the doors of clinics just to get their shots.

Instead, we have bribes.

Any good reason for this?

Too much misinformation, too many uneducated people who truly believe conspiracy theories that malign these vaccines, too many people who listen to leaders that have down played the importance of getting vaccinated. That is just for starters.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Oops, sorry, my bad.

Guess I need to chill a little

We all need to.

[Wyseguy]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

That comment was directed to the poster that commented vaccinated people carry a higher viral load of the Delta variant than UN-vaccinated people. What????? That just can not be possible. That is why I asked for him/her to "splain".

As the Associated Press notes, Walensky cited data from the last few days, still unpublished, taken from 100 samples from vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with COVID infections. They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly "indistinguishable" from what was found in unvaccinated people, confirming what some experts have suspected. The increased viral load associated with the Delta variant appears to make vaccinated people equal spreaders of the virus. Walensky said that the data was "concerning enough that we feel like we have to act."

[blueash]

I will try to explain the viral load controversy. When the delta variant finds you it enters your upper airway where it causes your body to make millions of copies of itself. These millions of new copies of the delta variant are shed into the moisture in the nose and throat and expelled with coughing, sneezing, singing, talking, and breathing.

A higher density of viruses in the shed material, the more likely they will find a new victim. This is why looking a "viral load" is done. It is like considering whether a gun that shots one bullet at a time is as dangerous as one that can shoot many in a short period. Delta is a machine gun, lots of bullets get fired.

The next important thing is that delta seems more successful at establishing itself in your airway. The combination of many more viruses being shed and it being an efficient infectious agent make delta much more contagious. The Delta virus gives 1000 times the number of viruses as previous strains.

Think about what happened when delta finds you. If you are vaccinated or unvaccinated it rapidly begins replicating and being shed. You are contagious regardless of your immune status. If you have antibodies, those antibodies and other immune functions will prevent the virus from making you significantly clinically ill in almost all cases. You may have no symptoms while the delta virus and your immune system battle it out, or you may have some symptoms.

While the virus is replicating [making lots of new virus particles] it may make exact copies or there may be a new variant appear. The more viral replications, the higher the chance of new mutations. In an immune person the period of time the virus is replicating is shorter, much shorter, than a non-immune person.

The new statement from the CDC reflects the new information on the behavior of the delta virus. Immunized people can be shedders for a period to the same degree as not-immunized people. Thus the recommendation for masks which as you have all been told over and over, do only a little. but not nothing, to protect the wearer and really are meant to protect others from the virus you may be unaware you are shedding.

No one, at least no responsible person who understands Covid, has said that vaccination does not make a difference. It saves lives and reduces morbidity. What it does not do well is prevent colonization with delta virus and shedding.

Thus the recommendation now, always subject to change as new data emerges, is get your shots, both doses to protect yourself from serious or fatal disease. And wear a mask especially indoors to protect others as you may be shedding delta virus even though you feel fine. Wear a mask means cover your nose and your mouth, not just your chin.

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by S=kBlogW

Lots of accusations flying around about this, apparently not based on actual facts.

Lets look at the data by race, from KFF (Kaiser)

Attachment 90238

Latest Data on COVID-19 Vaccinations by Race/Ethnicity | KFF

So looks like Blacks and hispanics are lagging behind asians and whites. Is this because they are poor and lack access or maybe they watch a certain news network?


Here is a vaccine locator at vaccines.gov. There are 50 locations where I can get a free covid shot within 15 miles of my home in rural Ocala. Put any zip code into the the locator and I doubt you'll find many places where there is not free vaccine available with 30 minutes of your home.

Vaccines.gov - Search for COVID-19 vaccine locations

There are some people who just plain refuse to get the jab? First of all, you have a very large group of people who have already had covid. Over 34 million cases in the USA so far, plus probably millions more who were asymptomatic and never tested. That's a very large group of people who already have immunity, and some recent studies show that natural immunity resulted in 33% lower infections.

Effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine in preventing COVID-19 in the working age population – first results from a cohort study in Southern Sweden | medRxiv

People under 40 with no serious health problems represent a very small percentage of total covid deaths and are more likely to die from pneumonia or the flu.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Recently the heads of CDC, NIH, and FDA were asked what percentage of their employees were vaccinated and the answer was about 60% There are reports that 20-40% of hospital workers are not vaccinated. These people are probably more educated on disease and vaccinations than your average American.

People in The Villages who are mostly over 65, are obese/diabetic/heart problems etc are rightfully scared of this disease and get the jab as soon as possible. But you might want to step out of the bubble and consider things from another perspective.

If you are one of the millions who have already had covid, or are young and healthy, you might decline the vaccine, and have valid reasons for that decision. Recent reports are showing that the vaccines are not as effective against Delta variant and can have virus loads higher than unvaccinated, so the antivaxxers might turn the table sand say "hey vaxxer, stay away from me and put on the mask"

Disclosure: I am over 70 with some health problems so I got both shots back in January. But that doesn't mean I have the right to tell young people or covid survivors that they MUST get the vaccine. The whole "antivaxxers are breeding ground for mutations and will kill us all" is kind of laughable. The percentage of people on this planet who have been vaccinated is very small, so mutations will continue even if every American gets the shots. We can't wall off the country from the world.

Hopefully the scientists can adjust and adapt the vaccines, but it looks like this virus is going to be around for awhile. Thanks China!

So, this line caught my eye. Is a resident of Ocala scolding residents of The Villages for feeling safe in our homes? The reference to "the bubble" makes my think that the OP is trying to make us fell guilty for living a good life in our chosen community.

[SkBlogW]

Originally Posted by Marathon Man

So, this line caught my eye. Is a resident of Ocala scolding residents of The Villages for feeling safe in our homes? The reference to "the bubble" makes my think that the OP is trying to make us fell guilty for living a good life in our chosen community.

LOL I own several homes in TV which mostly I rent out long term. I am not scolding villagers for "feeling safe in our homes" nor am I trying to make you feel guilty for living the good life. Lots of villagers use the term "The Bubble" My point was that since most villagers are 65 plus and many have health issues, of course they want to be vaccinated, but they seem to miss out on the fact that a lot of people under 40 are not worried about this virus nor are millions that have already had covid

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Wyseguy

As the Associated Press notes, Walensky cited data from the last few days, still unpublished, taken from 100 samples from vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with COVID infections. They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly "indistinguishable" from what was found in unvaccinated people, confirming what some experts have suspected. The increased viral load associated with the Delta variant appears to make vaccinated people equal spreaders of the virus. Walensky said that the data was "concerning enough that we feel like we have to act."

NO, NO, NO. It only confirms that the nasal carriage of the delta variant is about equal to the unvaccinated. IT PROVES NOTHING about the ability to spread the virus. However, if a subsequent study designed to answer that question shows an equal ability to disseminate, I wouldn't be shocked.