[LiverpoolWalrus]

I'd like to respectfully throw something out there for discussion and perhaps we can learn a bit from each other.

Our governor has said he will prohibit vaccine passports which would require us to prove we've been vaccinated in order to gain access to some businesses, offices, or restaurants.

I find it interesting because it speaks to how we all want the best for our country; we just approach it in different ways. Conservatives are not fond of government interference in general, but they support this proposal to ban vaccine passports. Liberals are generally okay with government regulation but do indeed want a vaccine passport which DeSantis is opposing, and as such, DeSantis is in favor of imposing government regulation.

Just goes to show modern American life is not all cut and dried. We all have to give a little.

If you want to respond but feel the need to be belligerent or snarky, please move on to the next thread. Thanks.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Says He'll Ban Vaccine Passports

How do you deal with people that have not been vaccinated but have herd immunity or have recovered from COVID 19.. Just testing them once for COVID 19 would not be enough.

[C. C. Rider]

The idea of "vaccine passports" is contradictory with what the vaccine advocates contend is true. They contend that people who get the vaccine will be safe from catching and transmitting the virus. If this premise is true, then they should have no worry about being around someone who hasn't had the vaccine. Perhaps the person had the virus and recovered with no problems... in which case, their immunity is probably as good as someone who had the vaccine. Even if they haven't had the virus, the unvaccinated person is the one at greater risk by being there than the vaccinated person, so why should they be prohibited from any public place?

[C. C. Rider]

To expand on what I said above, if an individual feels that they are particularly vulnerable to the virus, then why wouldn't it be THEIR responsibility to stay out of public places or take extra precautions such as double masking in order to protect themselves? Why should someone whose personal risk level from the virus is way less than 1% be prohibited from being in a public place just because some particularly vulnerable person doesn't feel safe?

Shouldn't self protection be the primary responsibility of the individual rather than placing the burden upon society to protect them by giving up their own freedoms?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by C. C. Rider

To expand on what I said above, if an individual feels that they are particularly vulnerable to the virus, then why wouldn't it be THEIR responsibility to stay out of public places or take extra precautions such as double masking in order to protect themselves? Why should someone whose personal risk level from the virus is way less than 1% be prohibited from being in a public place just because some particularly vulnerable person doesn't feel safe?

Shouldn't self protection be the primary responsibility of the individual rather than placing the burden upon society to protect them by giving up their own freedoms?

If this was just an individual issue, I would agree with you. However, all these policies and procedures were instituted to minimize a worldwide pandemic that could have killed hundreds of millions. There is a huge difference between public health measures and individual health.

[G.R.I.T.S.]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

I'd like to respectfully throw something out there for discussion and perhaps we can learn a bit from each other.

Our governor has said he will prohibit vaccine passports which would require us to prove we've been vaccinated in order to gain access to some businesses, offices, or restaurants.

I find it interesting because it speaks to how we all want the best for our country; we just approach it in different ways. Conservatives are not fond of government interference in general, but they support this proposal. Liberals are generally okay with government regulation but do indeed want a vaccine passport which DeSantis is opposing.

Just goes to show modern American life is not all cut and dried. We all have to give a little.

If you want to respond but feel the need to be belligerent or snarky, please move on to the next thread. Thanks.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Says He'll Ban Vaccine Passports

I foresee vaccine passports for more than just covid. Yes, children are required to be vaccinated to enter school, but what about for HPV? Flu? Shingles? I'm sure there's more. Where is the line drawn? No, I'm not a supporter.

[EdFNJ]

Originally Posted by G.R.I.T.S.

I foresee vaccine passports for more than just covid. Yes, children are required to be vaccinated to enter school, but what about for HPV? Flu? Shingles? I'm sure there's more. Where is the line drawn? No, I'm not a supporter.

Puhleeese! The "line is to be drawn" would be at COVID and only COVID which is currently the ONLY international pandemic still spreading worldwide and the only one in 100 years. None of your other examples are even close to what is happening.

In any case, my opinion to the question asked is I don't care either way whether they do or don't. Not really a BFD. All our personal information is available everywhere with just a little effort so this wouldn't matter 1 iota.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by G.R.I.T.S.

I foresee vaccine passports for more than just covid. Yes, children are required to be vaccinated to enter school, but what about for HPV? Flu? Shingles? I'm sure there's more. Where is the line drawn? No, I'm not a supporter.

naw, you are missing the point. Covid, a worldwide pandemic, has killed more people in 12 months than HPV, Flu, Shingles, etc has in 50 years.

And many countries will require it anyway - plus airlines, cruiseships, etc...

Reality is, I'm a fan of the Governor, but this policy - having the vaccine and the passport - is the fastest way to get the world on track

[blueash]

Originally Posted by John41

How do you deal with people that have not been vaccinated but have herd immunity or have recovered from COVID 19.. Just testing them once for COVID 19 would not be enough.

Nobody has herd immunity. The only way the herd is immune is when enough people have been immunized or have natural immunity from having been infected. Those are the only two options. As of today no one knows how long the protection from infection or immunization lasts. No one knows how well infection or immunization will protect against the mutations which are continuously emerging. But knowing the patient has been vaccinated is the best indicator we have at this point that the person is not likely to become ill or infectious. So if the public health goal is to minimize further spread of Covid and we are going to place large numbers of people in situations where we know spread is accelerated [ships, airplanes, gyms] then having a way to document who is as safe as possible to in those environments is a good public health measure.

If we had a way to produce a certificate that accurately said "This person is a reliable hand washer and will not likely spread E. coli or Hepatitis A" it would be a reasonable requirement to demand for a restaurant worker. A Covid passport would be a certificate that says "this person is unlikely to spread Covid to others" Public health does trump personal "freedom". This is the 100th anniversary of the case of Mary Mallon losing her freedom for the safety of the public.

[Tmarkwald]

Originally Posted by blueash

Nobody has herd immunity. The only way the herd is immune is when enough people have been immunized or have natural immunity from having been infected. Those are the only two options. As of today no one knows how long the protection from infection or immunization lasts. No one knows how well infection or immunization will protect against the mutations which are continuously emerging. But knowing the patient has been vaccinated is the best indicator we have at this point that the person is not likely to become ill or infectious. So if the public health goal is to minimize further spread of Covid and we are going to place large numbers of people in situations where we know spread is accelerated [ships, airplanes, gyms] then having a way to document who is as safe as possible to in those environments is a good public health measure.

If we had a way to produce a certificate that accurately said "This person is a reliable hand washer and will not likely spread E. coli or Hepatitis A" it would be a reasonable requirement to demand for a restaurant worker. A Covid passport would be a certificate that says "this person is unlikely to spread Covid to others" Public health does trump personal "freedom". This is the 100th anniversary of the case of Mary Mallon losing her freedom for the safety of the public.

And mandatory vaccination have been upheld several times by the Supreme Court in the interest of public safety.

[Vikingjunior]

Walmart, Publix, Panera etc. can't even enforce their mask requirements, do you really think these businesses are going to check everybody's papers. Vaccine Passports are a pipe dream, it's never going to happen move on.

[LiverpoolWalrus]

Great responses so far but none are getting to the heart of what I intended to be the matter. And that is...in this case conservatives are supporting government regulation. And government regulation is contradictory to their guiding principles.

On the other hand, liberals, who don't mind government regulation and expect a lot of it, ironically are against this proposed government regulation.

The point is there is no black and white. Both sides want the best for our country, but we approach it differently. This is proof we overlap.

This wasn't intended to be about the pros and cons of a vaccine passport, but carry on as you wish.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

Great responses so far but none are getting to the heart of what I intended to be the matter. And that is...in this case conservatives are supporting government regulation. And government regulation is contradictory to their guiding principles.

On the other hand, liberals, who don't mind government regulation and expect a lot of it, ironically are against this proposed government regulation.

The point is there is no black and white. Both sides want the best for our country, but we approach it differently. This is proof we overlap.

This wasn't intended to be about the merits, or lack of merits, of a vaccine passport.

What you're looking for is a political answer in which most of us have learned our lessons by way of infractions.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by C. C. Rider

Let's see if I've got this correct. We can't keep illegals from flooding into this country by the tens of thousands every day or keep the uninsured drivers off our streets and highways, but we're going to check the ID and Vaccine Passport of every person who goes into Walmart or Ace Hardware to buy some flashlight batteries or fertilizer for his lawn????

I guess that if a person didn't have a Vaccine Passport, they wouldn't be allowed in the grocery stores either. Guess they'd just have to go starve to death somewhere. And of course they wouldn't be allowed in the drug store to get medicine for their sick kid.

Got it. Now all we need is the Vaccine Police.

No, you do not "have it correct."

This is no different from the vaccine cards many international travelers already have, in order to do that travelling. There are countries that require you to have proof of immunity or vaccination to specific illnesses, before they'll let you in.

That's what this is about. It's about travel to and from the USA. It could also be very useful for kids going to public school - since proof of immunization is required in public school systems all over the country anyway. Might as well keep it all on one simple coded card that you can just scan whenever necessary and they'd know immediately you're not Typhoid Mary Version 2021.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by LiverpoolWalrus

Great responses so far but none are getting to the heart of what I intended to be the matter. And that is...in this case conservatives are supporting government regulation. And government regulation is contradictory to their guiding principles.

On the other hand, liberals, who don't mind government regulation and expect a lot of it, ironically are against this proposed government regulation.

The point is there is no black and white. Both sides want the best for our country, but we approach it differently. This is proof we overlap.

This wasn't intended to be about the merits, or lack of merits, of a vaccine passport.

I'm a social liberal, fiscal conservative. I'm pro-capitalism. And I think vaccine passports are an excellent idea. I'd sign up to get one if it meant a shorter wait time at the airport or at the cruise ship pre-boarding process hall.