Originally Posted by Tmarkwald (Post 1904136)

OK, the article you posted says the exact opposite...

Anchor Lester Holt: Should I get the vaccine if I’ve already had Covid?

Dr. John Torres: Most experts say it’s a good idea because they’re not sure how protected you are after recovering.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1904378)

Were you addressing that to me? If you were, you are quite confused, since I agree with you.

Originally Posted by Ltkor (Post 1904207)

Before the vaccines were reviewed and received an EUA, a large percentage of the population, including health care workers, were reluctant to receive the vaccine.

Over 90% of the physicians at the hospital I work have elected to receive the 2 vaccine series now that it is available and the initial data reviewed.

Again, everything in life involves risks. Evaluate the vaccine and make the decision about whether to receive it. But, also recognize the risks of not receiving it.

My colleagues, and myself, overwhelmingly have decided the risk/benefit favors receiving the vaccine.

No one is forced to receive the vaccine. Decline if you wish. Others are waiting in line to receive it.

If you decline, hopefully you stay well. If not, those of us that are healthy will provide to the best care possible.

Originally Posted by GoPacers (Post 1904366)

For some people here you have too many valid credentials to be believable.:icon_wink:

The science behind the vaccine is sound. Perfect? No, but sound. People should stop hiding behind ridiculous statements about why the getting the vaccine is "stupid." The only rational response is I DON'T want to and you CAN'T make me. That's your opinion and enough said. Stop trying to convince us with nonsense why your opinion is anything but an opinion.

Originally Posted by Pettys1 (Post 1904400)

You don't have to have risky behavior. You can go to a Dr office an get sick. So just because someone had Covid don't judge them you know nothing about them just your assumptions

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 1903530)

Saying people are afraid is not bullying at all. It is identifying an emotion. It is very possible that if we waited long enough for some to be satisfied that there will be no residual effects, no birth defects etc, that this damn virus will continue mutating until just the grass and trees and a few horses and cardinals are left on this planet.

I don't really want control of this person Justus. I want to debate and discuss her views. I am delighted that almost 90% of American's polled intend to be vaccinated against this virus.

The vaccine could start making us drop like flies in a year or two and not doing anything has already made us start dropping like flies.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1903615)

Really? I have not heard any percentage nearly that high. This is great news if it is true. Which poll did you get this number from?

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1904487)

That last sentence does NOT make sense to me. If it is supposed to be a good summary to tie the post together, it fell short for me.

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1904495)

I have never heard of 90%. I doubt that 65% would say they are getting the vaccine. Some may want to get it after waiting to decide safety for themselves? I don't agree with that logic, of course.

Originally Posted by dhdallas (Post 1904450)

1. My credentials are 100% valid. Your challenge to them is an insult.
2. I never said getting the vaccine was "stupid"
3. Everything I stated was not nonsense and most of it contained direct quotes from verifiable sources everyone seems to like such as the CDC & WHO
4. I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything but to "stop & think" before making any decisions

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome.

Compliance Theory is when you act the way you are “supposed” to act; either because you were directly asked, or pressured more indirectly

Complicity Theorist (noun) - a person who accepts the political narrative of the day unquestionably; consumes mainstream media like it was 1980; and is prone to submissiveness, outbursts of irrational fear, and public shaming of free-thinkers.

Anybody recognize themselves or what is happening?

“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
― Edward R. Murrow

Originally Posted by Tmarkwald (Post 1903430)

WOW - well the entire medical community and the CDC disagree.

If I have already had COVID-19 and recovered, do I still need to get vaccinated with a COVID-19 vaccine?

Yes. Due to the severe health risks associated with COVID-19 and the fact that re-infection with COVID-19 is possible, vaccine should be offered to you regardless of whether you already had COVID-19 infection. CDC is providing recommendations to federal, state, and local governments about who should be vaccinated first.

At this time, experts do not know how long someone is protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. The immunity someone gains from having an infection, called natural immunity, varies from person to person. Some early evidence suggests natural immunity may not last very long.

We won’t know how long immunity produced by vaccination lasts until we have more data on how well the vaccines work.

Both natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity are important aspects of COVID-19 that experts are trying to learn more about, and CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.

Will a COVID-19 vaccination protect me from getting sick with COVID-19?

Yes. COVID-19 vaccination works by teaching your immune system how to recognize and fight the virus that causes COVID-19, and this protects you from getting sick with COVID-19.

Being protected from getting sick is important because even though many people with COVID-19 have only a mild illness, others may get a severe illness, have long-term health effects, or even die. There is no way to know how COVID-19 will affect you, even if you don’t have an increased risk of developing severe complications. Learn more about how COVID-19 vaccines work.

Will a COVID-19 vaccine alter my DNA?

No. COVID-19 mRNA vaccines do not change or interact with your DNA in any way.

Messenger RNA vaccines—also called mRNA vaccines—are the first COVID-19 vaccines authorized for use in the United States. mRNA vaccines teach our cells how to make a protein that triggers an immune response. The mRNA from a COVID-19 vaccine never enters the nucleus of the cell, which is where our DNA is kept. This means the mRNA cannot affect or interact with our DNA in any way. Instead, COVID-19 mRNA vaccines work with the body’s natural defenses to safely develop immunity to disease. Learn more about how COVID-19 mRNA vaccines work. ​

At the end of the process, our bodies have learned how to protect against future infection. That immune response and making antibodies is what protects us from getting infected if the real virus enters our bodies.

source: Myths and Facts about COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC

Originally Posted by dhdallas (Post 1903416)

Myself, my family, my neighbors, and millions of others have already had COVID and are actively (or sometimes called naturally) immune. A person who is now immune cannot get or give the disease. The COVID virus is NOT one of those diseases in which an immune person can be a carrier. Therefore we do not need to get vaccinated or wear a mask. Even if I did not previously have had COVID I would still refuse a vaccine for the reasons that follow.

Many people will argue that active or natural immunity is different from vaccinated immunity. Here is what the CDC says; “Active immunity results when exposure to a disease organism triggers the immune system to produce antibodies to that disease. Exposure to the disease organism can occur through infection with the actual disease (resulting in natural immunity), or introduction of a killed or weakened form of the disease organism through vaccination (vaccine-induced immunity). Either way, if an immune person comes into contact with that disease in the future, their immune system will recognize it and immediately produce the antibodies needed to fight it.”

The WHO (World Health Organization) had this to say. “Vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease . Even people without symptoms develop an immune response.”

Who else should consider abstaining from the vaccination? “People with underlying health conditions that weaken their immune systems (such as cancer or HIV) or who have severe allergies to some vaccine components may not be able to get vaccinated.” - WHO

“Vaccines can cause anaphylaxis and other dangerous life-threatening side effects.” - NIH (National Institute of Health)

Example: “The United States stopped giving mandatory smallpox vaccinations 30 years ago. Some people die from it; and others have serious reactions, some permanent. Scientists say it's the most dangerous vaccine known to man.” - CBS News, 60 Minutes

These new COVID vaccines containing genetic instructions were rushed into use with extremely short trial periods. According to the IFPMA, the development of novel vaccines is a long endeavor. “It takes usually between 10 to 15 years to develop a novel vaccine, as well as establishing its quality, safety and efficacy.” states the International Federation of Pharmaceutical Manufacturers & Associations.

The NIH, CDC, Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), and the Department of Defense (DoD) combined to find the vaccine and dubbed the project OWS which stands for “Operation Warp Speed”. - Source/NIH’s National Institute of Infectious Diseases.

So bear in mind when you are being told that this vaccine is safe that this is the same government whose EPA said the air quality at the 9/11 site was safe for the cleanup workers, the DoD who had no qualms conducting LSD experiments on unsuspecting soldiers and said there was no cancer link to Agent Orange, and for-profit drug companies who market drugs in third world countries even though the same drugs have been banned in the U.S. and Europe due to harmful side effects. From 08/30/2017 to 02/03/2021 327 drugs previously approved by the FDA as safe & effective were recalled. This information was obtained from the FDA’s official website.

My final concern is that the COVID vaccines utilize genetic engineering. Messenger RNA vaccines (mRNA) vaccines have strands of genetic material called mRNA - source/CDC

I am NOT an “anti-vaxxer” nor a conspiracy theorist. I have had the DPT, pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine, HBV, and the zoster vaccine. I am susceptible and was routinely exposed to these diseases at my workplace. These vaccines have a proven record and were not rushed into production.

For those who have NOT already had a positive COVID test, I would carefully weigh the pros & cons of a new, relatively untested vaccine developed at “warp speed” (their words not mine) that uses genetic engineering against a virus that is just a nuisance for most people. Before you jump on me for stating it is “just a nuisance for most people” here is another direct quote from the WHO; “Most people infected with the COVID-19 virus will experience mild to moderate respiratory illness and recover without requiring special treatment.” COVID is not on a plane with Ebola, the Plague, Cholera, Malaria, or Yellow Fever. Not even close!

Unfortunately I have found that logical arguments backed by proven science (not “may happen” or “might not be”) fall on deaf ears. It is similar to having an argument over religion. The true believers have blind faith and no person will ever sway their belief no matter how sound the opposing view.

My previously published views on COVID have stirred such animosity that people have gone so far as to wish me “homeless” and that my children “die of cancer”. I have also been called a “quack”, a “know-it-all”, “part of the problem”, a “disgrace”, “brainwashed by Tr_ _p” (of course) and the list goes on and on.

I refuse to be bullied into silence when I see so many people who have been paralyzed with irrational fear and making decisions about their health based on largely one-sided views without fully examining all sides of the issue. Human beings are capable of independent thought and reason. We are not sheep or lemmings.

I am a retired RN, EMT-Paramedic with an ASN degree graduating summa cum laude, a member of 2 national honor societies, with past American Heart Association certifications in Advanced Cardiac Life Support and Pediatric Advanced Life Support. I also am a certified coroner after receiving my training at the Pennsylvania State Police Academy and served as the Chief Deputy Coroner for a county in Pennsylvania. I worked during the onset of AIDS/HIV, H1N1, MRSA & Necrotizing Fasciitis (flesh eating bacteria) and never have I seen such a level of misinformation and a bombardment of articles that focus on rare atypical cases and the hypothetical.

I only include this professional background information to distinguish myself from authors with absolutely no background in healthcare whatsoever and who state unproven theories often with no scientific support. I do not claim to be an expert, just experienced. As the actor Walter Brennan was often quoted from an old television show, The Guns of Will Sonnett; “No brag, just fact".

- David H. Dallas, RN-ASN, EMT-P, retired

Originally Posted by jimjamuser (Post 1904489)

The vaccines have been tested to the point of it being UNLIKELY that they will CAUSE us to "drop like flies". That possibility would be likely less than being struck by a meteor.

Originally Posted by dhdallas (Post 1903416)

myself, my family, my neighbors, and millions of others have already had covid and are actively (or sometimes called naturally) immune. A person who is now immune cannot get or give the disease. The covid virus is not one of those diseases in which an immune person can be a carrier. Therefore we do not need to get vaccinated or wear a mask. Even if i did not previously have had covid i would still refuse a vaccine for the reasons that follow.

Many people will argue that active or natural immunity is different from vaccinated immunity. Here is what the cdc says; “active immunity results when exposure to a disease organism triggers the immune system to produce antibodies to that disease. Exposure to the disease organism can occur through infection with the actual disease (resulting in natural immunity), or introduction of a killed or weakened form of the disease organism through vaccination (vaccine-induced immunity). Either way, if an immune person comes into contact with that disease in the future, their immune system will recognize it and immediately produce the antibodies needed to fight it.”

the who (world health organization) had this to say. “vaccines train our immune systems to create proteins that fight disease, known as ‘antibodies’, just as would happen when we are exposed to a disease . Even people without symptoms develop an immune response.”

who else should consider abstaining from the vaccination? “people with underlying health conditions that weaken their immune systems (such as cancer or hiv) or who have severe allergies to some vaccine components may not be able to get vaccinated.” - who

“vaccines can cause anaphylaxis and other dangerous life-threatening side effects.” - nih (national institute of health)

example: “the united states stopped giving mandatory smallpox vaccinations 30 years ago. Some people die from it; and others have serious reactions, some permanent. Scientists say it's the most dangerous vaccine known to man.” - cbs news, 60 minutes

these new covid vaccines containing genetic instructions were rushed into use with extremely short trial periods. According to the ifpma, the development of novel vaccines is a long endeavor. “it takes usually between 10 to 15 years to develop a novel vaccine, as well as establishing its quality, safety and efficacy.” states the international federation of pharmaceutical manufacturers & associations.

The nih, cdc, biomedical advanced research and development authority (barda), and the department of defense (dod) combined to find the vaccine and dubbed the project ows which stands for “operation warp speed”. - source/nih’s national institute of infectious diseases.

So bear in mind when you are being told that this vaccine is safe that this is the same government whose epa said the air quality at the 9/11 site was safe for the cleanup workers, the dod who had no qualms conducting lsd experiments on unsuspecting soldiers and said there was no cancer link to agent orange, and for-profit drug companies who market drugs in third world countries even though the same drugs have been banned in the u.s. And europe due to harmful side effects. from 08/30/2017 to 02/03/2021 327 drugs previously approved by the fda as safe & effective were recalled. this information was obtained from the fda’s official website.

My final concern is that the covid vaccines utilize genetic engineering. Messenger rna vaccines (mrna) vaccines have strands of genetic material called mrna - source/cdc

i am not an “anti-vaxxer” nor a conspiracy theorist. i have had the dpt, pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine, hbv, and the zoster vaccine. I am susceptible and was routinely exposed to these diseases at my workplace. These vaccines have a proven record and were not rushed into production.

For those who have not already had a positive covid test, i would carefully weigh the pros & cons of a new, relatively untested vaccine developed at “warp speed” (their words not mine) that uses genetic engineering against a virus that is just a nuisance for most people. Before you jump on me for stating it is “just a nuisance for most people” here is another direct quote from the who; “most people infected with the covid-19 virus will experience mild to moderate respiratory illness and recover without requiring special treatment.” covid is not on a plane with ebola, the plague, cholera, malaria, or yellow fever. Not even close!

Unfortunately i have found that logical arguments backed by proven science (not “may happen” or “might not be”) fall on deaf ears. It is similar to having an argument over religion. The true believers have blind faith and no person will ever sway their belief no matter how sound the opposing view.

My previously published views on covid have stirred such animosity that people have gone so far as to wish me “homeless” and that my children “die of cancer”. I have also been called a “quack”, a “know-it-all”, “part of the problem”, a “disgrace”, “brainwashed by tr_ _p” (of course) and the list goes on and on.

I refuse to be bullied into silence when i see so many people who have been paralyzed with irrational fear and making decisions about their health based on largely one-sided views without fully examining all sides of the issue. human beings are capable of independent thought and reason. We are not sheep or lemmings.

i am a retired rn, emt-paramedic with an asn degree graduating summa cum laude, a member of 2 national honor societies, with past american heart association certifications in advanced cardiac life support and pediatric advanced life support. I also am a certified coroner after receiving my training at the pennsylvania state police academy and served as the chief deputy coroner for a county in pennsylvania. I worked during the onset of aids/hiv, h1n1, mrsa & necrotizing fasciitis (flesh eating bacteria) and never have i seen such a level of misinformation and a bombardment of articles that focus on rare atypical cases and the hypothetical.

i only include this professional background information to distinguish myself from authors with absolutely no background in healthcare whatsoever and who state unproven theories often with no scientific support. i do not claim to be an expert, just experienced. As the actor walter brennan was often quoted from an old television show, the guns of will sonnett; “no brag, just fact".

- david h. Dallas, rn-asn, emt-p, retired

Originally Posted by Worldseries27 (Post 1904528)

e = mc²
EINSTEIN, THE GREATEST SCIENTIFIC MIND, IN MANKIND'S HISTORY, WAS DISMISSIVE OF HIS OWN THEORY'S PRACTICAL APPLICATION. HE STATED IT WAS " LIKE TRYING TO SHOOT 2 BIRDS AT NIGHT OVER A COUNTRY WITH VERY FEW BIRDS".
HE WAS WRONG AS SUBSEQUENT EVENTS PROVED.
THE POINT IS YOUR OPINION IS EITHER
RIGHT
OR
WRONG.
50/ 50 ODDS.
NOT TOO GOOD IF YOU ARE PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULETTE.
ANYBODY CAN BE RIGHT OR WRONG NO MATTER THEIR STATION OR PEDIGREE.

Originally Posted by coffeebean (Post 1904299)

I beg to differ..........

Coming Soon: The ‘Vaccine Passport’ - The New York Times

Originally Posted by Boston-Sean (Post 1903566)

Ya, the CDC hasn't been covering itself in glory on this question. Short answer: No, don't bother getting the vaccine if you've already had Covid.

CDC Investigation | Full Measure

Originally Posted by LaurenBala (Post 1904011)

Dr. Lee Merritt is an orthopedic surgeon, not a virologist, and she is a part of a group called "American Frontline Doctors" which is a known propaganda machine for Quanon conspiracies. The mainstream media can definitely also be a propoganda machine, but just because someone isn't part of it, that does not automatically make them a reliable source of information.

Originally Posted by flflowers (Post 1904824)

Dr Lee Merritt is more than just an "orthopedic Surgeon" She is former President of the Assoc of American Physicians and Surgeons...worked her career for the military ...she studied BIOLOGICAL WARFARE! I think this "qualifies" her more than just an orthopedic surgeon.

Under Obama, Chinese worked in our Bio Weapons Labs! Completely illegal, but that's another story

From a military standpoint, this is a perfect weapon, the mRNA.

mRNA NEVER made it through animal testing. She is just trying to warn people.
Here is an article about the organization called American Frontline Doctors that


And just because she is trying to get her message out before it is censored does not mean it is not the truth! If there is no one in the stands at the Womens Basketball Championship, does that mean it didn't happen?

All she is saying is that the "vaccine", not a vaccine, is experimental biologics.

She is part of the group of front line doctors speaking up with the risks of losing everything!! AFLDS.com

AFLDS.com

Originally Posted by Laurawilcox (Post 1904660)

Thank you to Boston:Sean. I read the attached information and watched the video created around Congressman Massive’ s study of the test data. You need to watch until the end of the Full Measure video that he attached. Heads of CDC acknowledge that the data results from the vaccination studies show no proven efficacy if you had previously had Covid. They apologize repeatedly for the misrepresentation of the data to the public.

Now, based on this information, my husband and I who are both 60 and have had the virus, will at a minimum wait for others in need to have their vaccinations. There is already conversation that this may be an annual recommendation like the flu shot. Unless data comes out saying otherwise there is nothing compelling to do otherwise.

Originally Posted by Laurawilcox (Post 1904660)

Thank you to Boston:Sean. I read the attached information and watched the video created around Congressman Massive’ s study of the test data. You need to watch until the end of the Full Measure video that he attached. Heads of CDC acknowledge that the data results from the vaccination studies show no proven efficacy if you had previously had Covid. They apologize repeatedly for the misrepresentation of the data to the public.

Now, based on this information, my husband and I who are both 60 and have had the virus, will at a minimum wait for others in need to have their vaccinations. There is already conversation that this may be an annual recommendation like the flu shot. Unless data comes out saying otherwise there is nothing compelling to do otherwise.

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow (Post 1904898)

Here is an article about the group called American Frontline Doctors that Lee Merritt belongs to. It’s a group that are conspiracy minded believing in alien DNA and many other conspiracy theories.
Very interesting read:
Back Away From “America’s Frontline Doctors” | Office for Science and Society - McGill University

Originally Posted by Tadpole (Post 1904921)

dhdallas: Neither my husband nor I will take it, either. Both of us are healthy and have great antibodies, and we just don’t feel right about the vaccine. I never even take antibiotics unless it’s absolutely necessary, or any other medication other than the over-the-counter vitamins and minerals most other geezers like me take. Also, I seem to have some kind of allergy to vaccines such as flu and pneumonia, so will not let them touch me with the COVID vaccine. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge with the rest of us.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1904927)

Please define "great antibodies" for me, and then explain how you know YOU have them, whatever they are. Amazing.

Originally Posted by Byte1 (Post 1904947)

Is it related to "great anti-matter?" I once had a great auntie body, but she got old and passed away.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 1904927)

Please define "great antibodies" for me, and then explain how you know YOU have them, whatever they are. Amazing.

Originally Posted by flflowers (Post 1904824)

Dr Lee Merritt is more than just an "orthopedic Surgeon" She is former President of the Assoc of American Physicians and Surgeons...worked her career for the military ...she studied BIOLOGICAL WARFARE! I think this "qualifies" her more than just an orthopedic surgeon.

Under Obama, Chinese worked in our Bio Weapons Labs! Completely illegal, but that's another story

From a military standpoint, this is a perfect weapon, the mRNA.

mRNA NEVER made it through animal testing. She is just trying to warn people.

And just because she is trying to get her message out before it is censored does not mean it is not the truth! If there is no one in the stands at the Womens Basketball Championship, does that mean it didn't happen?

All she is saying is that the "vaccine", not a vaccine, is experimental biologics.

She is part of the group of front line doctors speaking up with the risks of losing everything!! AFLDS.com

AFLDS.com

Originally Posted by Packer Fan (Post 1905846)

Since I'm 57, I would like to encourage any of you who are reluctant to wait. This will allow them to get done with the 65 plus crowd sooner and on to my age group where I should be front of the line having diabetes. Then I can get mine faster. Works for all of us. For the life of me I don't get what long term effects the anti vaxxers are worried about. I was in the military and was reimunized for everything there is 39 years ago and no side effects. No vaccine has ever had long term side effects so why now?

Like I said I have no problem being your guinea pig so get outta the way.

Originally Posted by chet2020 (Post 1905066)

Personally, I'm going to set aside the advice of the orthopedic surgeon for now, and take the advice of the dozen or so infectious disease physicians and epidemiologists that I follow who have spent their lives studying this. And the trial data looks pretty good too.