Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   Executive Courses - The Villages Golf Course Conditions (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/executive-courses-villages-golf-course-conditions-472/)
-   -   Golf Courses-What do we do? (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/executive-courses-villages-golf-course-conditions-472/golf-courses-what-do-we-do-348219/)

Blueblaze 03-04-2024 08:42 AM
Personally, my solution is to just wait for the snowbirds to go home.

You sure don't want management to discover that your favorite executive course needs attention. They'll shut it down for a year while they spend 5 milllion dollars to dig up and cart away entire greens, tee boxes, and bunkers, only to replace them with the exact same stuff. And then they'll ban you from using them for six months until the snowbirds arrive to reduce them to rubble again by February.

And lord help you, if they ever catch you walking your dog on their pristine masterpiece while it awaits its January re-destruction!

Doug17s 03-04-2024 08:52 AM
Executive course conditions
 
We usually play the executive courses and I always wonder why the grass is cut so low. I understand that the grass is dormant this time of year but grass still grows, although at a slower rate. Let the grass grow to a reasonable height!

golfing eagles 03-04-2024 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueblaze (Post 2307476)
Personally, my solution is to just wait for the snowbirds to go home.

You sure don't want management to discover that your favorite executive course needs attention. They'll shut it down for a year while they spend 5 milllion dollars to dig up and cart away entire greens, tee boxes, and bunkers, only to replace them with the exact same stuff. And then they'll ban you from using them for six months until the snowbirds arrive to reduce them to rubble again by February.

And lord help you, if they ever catch you walking your dog on their pristine masterpiece while it awaits its January re-destruction!
I doubt "snowbirds" (seasonal residents who are owners and therefore have a vested interest in our community) are the problem. Renters, especially those that do not return year after year and STRs are probably an issue. Lack of knowledge by those maintaining the course is probably a huge factor.

And there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON, EVER, TO WALK YOUR DOG ON GOLF COURSE PROPERTY!

Desiderata 03-04-2024 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2307434)
Which brings up another point I've made before. Florida law may prevent communities from regulating short term rentals, but The Villages are under no obligation whatsoever to give guest passes to STRs. Would reduce the problem in a hurry. (Yes, I realize that it is technically not a guest pass but a transfer of owner ID, but no reason that couldn't be changed to exclude rentals of less than 1 month)
I love this idea!

tophcfa 03-04-2024 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2307434)
Which brings up another point I've made before. Florida law may prevent communities from regulating short term rentals, but The Villages are under no obligation whatsoever to give guest passes to STRs. Would reduce the problem in a hurry. (Yes, I realize that it is technically not a guest pass but a transfer of owner ID, but no reason that couldn't be changed to exclude rentals of less than 1 month)
That’s a great idea!

terryf484 03-04-2024 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2307208)
Want to improve conditions on the executive courses ? Decrease demand :
1 - Build more executive courses in the south
2 - Have them lower the high season prices on the championship courses !
I don't believe it is the high demand on the courses that is causing the problem. I think it is the maintenance of the courses. i.e. green conditions on Bonita Pass, Pelican, Tarpon Boil are not due to heavy play, there is disease in the greens.

DoreenH 03-04-2024 10:11 AM
Upcoming meeting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2307197)
There have been many threads this spring about the deplorable exec and champ course conditions. In my experience, the executives are worse than they’ve been in the last few years, the champs are as bad as the have been historically (albeit not good, just about the same as the last few years). For example, Havana has been bad the last few years.

WHAT DO WE (as residents) DO?
email the paper?
Email someone in the developer’s org?
Email someone in the districts org (or some other home owner org)?

We should be coordinated;; i.e. the same message to the same group of people.

Any ideas?
There is a meeting on Wednesday March 6 at 9:00am at the Savannah Rec Center. Some people are going there to talk to the AAC governing group about the bad condition of the Executive courses. They don't want to cause trouble; just make their opinions known. The more people that attend, the better the message will be!

mikemalloy 03-04-2024 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2307197)
There have been many threads this spring about the deplorable exec and champ course conditions. In my experience, the executives are worse than they’ve been in the last few years, the champs are as bad as the have been historically (albeit not good, just about the same as the last few years). For example, Havana has been bad the last few years.

WHAT DO WE (as residents) DO?
email the paper?
Email someone in the developer’s org?
Email someone in the districts org (or some other home owner org)?

We should be coordinated;; i.e. the same message to the same group of people.

Any ideas?
The only thing that the greedy folks who are destroying the lifestyle here will understand is financial pressure. I'd like to see an organized "rent strike." A court approved program where part of ammenities fees are withheld until course conditions are brought to an acceptable level is a start.

BrianL99 03-04-2024 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2307449)
Yes----limited to owners and renters of 30 days or more, as well as their guests. Not much of a limitation except for the Airbnb's and other STRs. Residents other than golfers would benefit as well---less crowding on pickleball courts and other activities at the Rec Centers such as exercise classes. Just how attractive would a STR in The Villages be if all you could do is stare at the four walls?
Geez, I'm agreeing with you too often, lately.

I've been involved in a few STR controversy, in a couple of towns up north. There was a thread on TOTV about a year ago, complaining about STR's and their effect on the community.

I put together a "rough framework", that was primarily focused on controlling guest passes (or ID's) and essentially making it difficult (if not impossible) to get a Guest Pass for renters who were here less than a month (thereby reducing STR rentals and stress on the amenities) My framework wasn't without holes, it was a "first pass" at an idea. What I considered the lynch pin of the idea, were all the controls that needed to be put in place, were within the jurisdiction of the CDD's and could be implemented, without running afoul of Florida's law that prevents communities from outlawing STR's. As you correctly point out, "amenity access" is the key and probably out of reach by the state's prohibition on STR control.

The reaction from the peanut gallery, was exactly as you would expect. No a person offered a substantive alternative, solution or even a tweak. It was much more fun to complain and poke holes.

The basic hole in my premise, was the Developer has a vested interest in maintaining a "full occupancy of homes" at all times. Why? Because the Developer owns all the commercial properties and the value of those properties, is entirely based on the revenue generated by the tenants. More "residents" = more shoppers, more diners, more everything ... including higher rents for the commercial space. Keep in mind, once the CDD's take over the infrastructure, there's no more increased costs for the developer ... roads, police, utilities, emergency, etc. All those costs are being absorbed by the CDD's.

PurePeach 03-04-2024 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2307224)
Yes.

While all those have an effect, they are behaviors that golf courses everywhere, deal with and have for the history of golf.

Those problems aren't isolated to The Villages and not the major cause of the horrendous conditions on many of TV's golf courses.
Agree. those things have absolutely nothing to do with bald greens and greens covered in weed wads making good putting impossible. :mad:

Jdasta 03-04-2024 10:51 AM
Golf courses suffering from severe fungal infection
 
The creator of WingNut, has answered the question about the golf courses several times. There is a fungal disease. They are fighting it, but it spreads on shoes and mower equipment from one course to the other. Those who have had fungal problems with their lawns know that many times the lawn needs to be resodded and the top layer of soil removed, because the fungus is in the soil. We had fungal problems with our lawn when we were in Georgia. We had it resodded, but it eventually came back. It is a horrible problem. It will take a long time and cost a lot to fix the problem.
The developer is responsible only for those courses he has not yet released. To fix other golf courses, the monies will have to come from amenity fees in those districts.

PurePeach 03-04-2024 10:58 AM
Just put this on my calendar

Oneiric 03-04-2024 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nana2Teddy (Post 2307394)
I’m not a golfer yet, but I do read these threads out of curiosity. While watching a live Q&A show on YouTube with Don Wiley (Gold Wingnut) a week ago he was asked about the poor condition of many of the courses. He said TV is dealing with a serious fungal infection on many courses and working on it, but it’s not an easy fix. This is just my best recollection of his response, not a quote. Since fungus hasn’t been mentioned in this comment thread I’m assuming it’s not common knowledge.
Fungus on golf courses is not a new entity. It requires maintenance to provide more than the minimum care with expensive fungicides and other practices to stay AHEAD of it. If not caught early, the grass dies, then it can get REALLY expensive. If you apply the minimum contractual effort to a serious problem, this is what you have now.

Vermilion Villager 03-04-2024 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2307483)
I doubt "snowbirds" (seasonal residents who are owners and therefore have a vested interest in our community) are the problem. Renters, especially those that do not return year after year and STRs are probably an issue. Lack of knowledge by those maintaining the course is probably a huge factor.

And there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON, EVER, TO WALK YOUR DOG ON GOLF COURSE PROPERTY!
Agree everything you said. It appears the new norm for people is to just don't give a #$%^. I've seen in the last 2 Weeks People driving their golf carts right up on the green, throw cigarette butts out while they're driving their golf carts, and not even make an attempt to repair any damage to the course that they may have caused while golfing. I've also witnessed people walking their dogs on paths that say golf carts only. My friend hit an errant shot that bounced off the golf cart path right in front of two ladies and they were a little miffed that we almost hit them! When I explain to them this path is for golf use only they looked at me and just kept walking. Then on top of that you have to add the fact that this has been an unusually cold and wet winter… That alone also has a detrimental effect on the golf course. The point I'm trying to make it's everything combined that is making it so bad this year!

LarryL 03-04-2024 11:29 AM
Why pay for Priority golf when tyhe courses suck?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2307197)
There have been many threads this spring about the deplorable exec and champ course conditions. In my experience, the executives are worse than they’ve been in the last few years, the champs are as bad as the have been historically (albeit not good, just about the same as the last few years). For example, Havana has been bad the last few years.

WHAT DO WE (as residents) DO?
email the paper?
Email someone in the developer’s org?
Email someone in the districts org (or some other home owner org)?

We should be coordinated;; i.e. the same message to the same group of people.

Any ideas?
encourage all priority golfers to cancel, telling them that they raised the cost and ruined the courses at the same time! Totally unacceptable!

Marathon Man 03-04-2024 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemalloy (Post 2307522)
The only thing that the greedy folks who are destroying the lifestyle here will understand is financial pressure. I'd like to see an organized "rent strike." A court approved program where part of ammenities fees are withheld until course conditions are brought to an acceptable level is a start.
So, you would like to see it. Will you be willing to take action to make it happen?

Cheapbas 03-04-2024 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2307197)
There have been many threads this spring about the deplorable exec and champ course conditions. In my experience, the executives are worse than they’ve been in the last few years, the champs are as bad as the have been historically (albeit not good, just about the same as the last few years). For example, Havana has been bad the last few years.

WHAT DO WE (as residents) DO?
email the paper?
Email someone in the developer’s org?
Email someone in the districts org (or some other home owner org)?

We should be coordinated;; i.e. the same message to the same group of people.

Any ideas?
I think rather then point to “they” or “ management” we need the person on top of the pyramid who is responsible for it all and approach them.

I don’t believe high traffic is the issue, I’ve seen other courses booked solid constantly not have these problems. Whether it’s weather, disease, improper attention or budgetary they are not throwing the proper resources at it.

josephchiro 03-04-2024 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2307218)
Yes

Take a day off playing Championship Courses and hold a monster GOLF CART PARADE!
Villagers ban together and all boycott all golf for several days....hit them in the wallet

JMintzer 03-04-2024 04:40 PM
My suggestion is to start yet another thread on the very same topic as the other half a dozen threads that will do absolutely noting to fix the problem...

Happydaz 03-04-2024 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2307655)
My suggestion is to start yet another thread on the very same topic as the other half a dozen threads that will do absolutely noting to fix the problem...
Who says? It looks like a number of posters may go to the upcoming meetings to talk about their concerns.

Happydaz 03-04-2024 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoreenH (Post 2307520)
There is a meeting on Wednesday March 6 at 9:00am at the Savannah Rec Center. Some people are going there to talk to the AAC governing group about the bad condition of the Executive courses. They don't want to cause trouble; just make their opinions known. The more people that attend, the better the message will be!
Here is the information on an upcoming meeting. This gives Villagers a chance to express their concerns.

kkingston57 03-04-2024 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2307203)
For the executive courses, make your feelings known at a PWAC or AAC meeting and possibly also at a SLCDD or VCCDD meeting.

PWAC and AAC are advisory boards with resident members.
SLCDD and VCCDD are developer-elected boards which actually control the amenities

Any necessary actions need to be taken by the SLCDD or VCCDD but the PWAC and AAC can advise the xxCDD to take those actions.

TOOO many acronyms.

kkingston57 03-04-2024 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyp (Post 2307208)
Want to improve conditions on the executive courses ? Decrease demand :
1 - Build more executive courses in the south
2 - Have them lower the high season prices on the championship courses !
Lower prices on the championship courses= less money for maintenance and switch over to newest grasses.

kkingston57 03-04-2024 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL99 (Post 2307307)
The Arnold Palmer Invitational begins this week, in Orlando.

It will be televised. It will be interesting to see how El Nino affected that golf course, 40 miles away. I bet El Nino spared Bay Hill.
We can also compare night and day

kkingston57 03-04-2024 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1mack (Post 2307462)
A simple sign at the starters shack and on the Ambassador's cart stating:

'Reparing All Divots and Ball Marks Is Expected'.

Simple and little cost.
Agree but repairing ball marks and fixing divots is a very small part of the problems. They will cause bad spots but do not kill the grass. 90% of problems is poor maintenance, over watering(causes fungus) no regular weed killing(weeds seem to get killed after they have completely takeover)

Dusty_Star 03-04-2024 06:44 PM
Two very good ideas:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoreenH (Post 2307520)
There is a meeting on Wednesday March 6 at 9:00am at the Savannah Rec Center. Some people are going there to talk to the AAC governing group about the bad condition of the Executive courses. They don't want to cause trouble; just make their opinions known. The more people that attend, the better the message will be!
Those who can, should show up. Perhaps someone can broach the next idea:

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2307434)
Which brings up another point I've made before. Florida law may prevent communities from regulating short term rentals, but The Villages are under no obligation whatsoever to give guest passes to STRs. Would reduce the problem in a hurry. (Yes, I realize that it is technically not a guest pass but a transfer of owner ID, but no reason that couldn't be changed to exclude rentals of less than 1 month)
Who do we lobby to enact this change? How do we go about getting this done? It is a fabulous idea, & NEEDS traction.
Perhaps, an exception would be made for the developer's 'life style visits', they would be allowed full access.

DARFAP 03-04-2024 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan (Post 2307221)
You people doing the most complaining about the conditions are probably the ones that never fix ball marks, never sand divots, never rake traps, drive through wet areas, pull right up next to the greens, drive between the traps and the greens, pull off the cart path pulling up to the tee box - anyone want to add anything else?
Yes, dragging feet on the greens when walking. Pick your feet up.

fdpaq0580 03-04-2024 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoreenH (Post 2307520)
There is a meeting on Wednesday March 6 at 9:00am at the Savannah Rec Center. Some people are going there to talk to the AAC governing group about the bad condition of the Executive courses. They don't want to cause trouble; just make their opinions known. The more people that attend, the better the message will be!
Maybe a little trouble should be expected, seeing as how this golf course "death spiral" has actually been talked about many times for a long time and no one that could have made a real difference seems to have given a flying rats, now, what is the word I'm looking for?
What I figure "they" will do is give us a lot of lip service about how " it couldn't be helped." And, how hard they have been working on it, and the weather is to blame, etc, ect, etc. Meanwhile, amenity rates have risen, raises have probably been given, all for failing to do what was needed and failing to recognize what was needed, and just failing , PERIOD! In spite of supposed credentials and experience. We support their complete and utter failure.
"This situation" (which they created by failing to take action when they should have) "is" (of course) "going to require a lot of money" (our money) "we have no option but to raise amenity fees." (again).
Grab your ankles, friends and neighbors.

JustSomeGuy 03-04-2024 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfing eagles (Post 2307434)
Which brings up another point I've made before. Florida law may prevent communities from regulating short term rentals, but The Villages are under no obligation whatsoever to give guest passes to STRs. Would reduce the problem in a hurry. (Yes, I realize that it is technically not a guest pass but a transfer of owner ID, but no reason that couldn't be changed to exclude rentals of less than 1 month)
Or if a visitor pass is for less than 30 days, owner must be present when pass is issued and guest must be staying in owners unit, not a rental. Limit number of passes outstanding (owner is in town and has more guests coming they can turn in a pass and get another). Florida condo I lived in had minimum rentals of two weeks and complied with law. Governments could not prevent STR but could require inspections and charge fees for inspections. Many condos in Clearwater had minimum rentals in their covenants.

Beyond The Wall 03-05-2024 04:48 AM
Where to make yourself heard
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy (Post 2307342)
Those in control know the situation. Key to get results is to be calm and always start public comments with "In my opinion....." Avoids legal threat. Post comments on facebook pages as replays, not new topics and post photos. Search as one considering the villages would on the internet and comment on those sites, again... with your opinion.

Sounds like the goal is not to get the CDD's to spend our money and raise our fees but to get the developer to change their procedures... in the areas being developed now. That will allow those in the deep south to play on new courses instead of making the trek north... on the multi modal paths.

Don't show outrage. Show disappointment.... In my opinion, this is not the Villages I expected......It is a shame how things, like the conditions of the golf courses and the shift to pitch and putts has changed the Villages. I never expected to not be able to get a tee time during the week or get a tee time on a course where, in my opinion, greens are worst than municipal courses I use to pay 35 dollars for before I moved here.....

Give those looking the questions to ask... what are my changes of getting a tee time on a Saturday during January? If I were looking at the villages I would ask for a tour of the courses (name them) before buying.... the new course by the turnpike is not the one you will be playing most weeks.....

Behavior changes when the pocket book is impacted.

Have you looked in to Sun City Center outside of Tampa? Courses were sold to a third party and now many have closed... the new owner wants to build more homes on the old courses. Very sad. Also the reason I did not consider that development. I found out via comments left on sites.

We have purchased our homes. Our leverage is near zero. But if our opinion starts to cause buyers to ask specific questions of their Villages realtor....Boom... changes will happen.
If you’re upset when you get poor service in a car dealership, don’t complain in the service area. Go into the showroom and complain there. That gets attention and sometimes action

damvillages 03-05-2024 06:10 AM
Would be interested in an organized event showing that we are fed up with conditions.

cjrjck 03-05-2024 06:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2307655)
My suggestion is to start yet another thread on the very same topic as the other half a dozen threads that will do absolutely noting to fix the problem...
Yep.

Dantes 03-05-2024 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa_lecki (Post 2307197)
There have been many threads this spring about the deplorable exec and champ course conditions. In my experience, the executives are worse than they’ve been in the last few years, the champs are as bad as the have been historically (albeit not good, just about the same as the last few years). For example, Havana has been bad the last few years.

WHAT DO WE (as residents) DO?
email the paper?
Email someone in the developer’s org?
Email someone in the districts org (or some other home owner org)?

We should be coordinated;; i.e. the same message to the same group of people.

Any ideas?
Ask for a reduction of amenity fees

Lpaul 03-05-2024 08:21 AM
I understand there is a meeting on Wednesday morning at Savanna. Executive maintenance management will be there to discuss what they are doing. Maybe attend and offer examples of bad conditions would help!!

Bill14564 03-05-2024 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkingston57 (Post 2307679)
TOOO many acronyms.
Four is too many?

In any case, districtgov.org is very useful for understanding your local government. For example, acronyms.

Mulliganguy 03-05-2024 09:24 AM
imo an individual player should not be allowed more than one tee time a day on executive courses. System should kick out resident #’s entered more than once in a 24 hour period!

rockyhyder 03-05-2024 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2307203)
For the executive courses, make your feelings known at a PWAC or AAC meeting and possibly also at a SLCDD or VCCDD meeting.

PWAC and AAC are advisory boards with resident members.
SLCDD and VCCDD are developer-elected boards which actually control the amenities

Any necessary actions need to be taken by the SLCDD or VCCDD but the PWAC and AAC can advise the xxCDD to take those actions.
Bill is absolutely correct. PWAC(South of 466) and AAC(North of 466) are responsible for amenities in their respective areas. These Committees can address fixes that require budgetary changes like overseeding, etc. The VCCDD and SLCDD will have to address changes that involve personnel.

NJRICHARD 03-05-2024 09:45 AM
Sandhll, uhg!!!
 
Played Sandhill yesterday. This course was completely renovated last year and is in very poor condition. Overuse does not cause weeds everywhere, the greens looked like they had a fungus, and the fairways were in very poor condition. I was told there is a 'new' manager taking care of the executive courses and the first thing that came into my mind was this the lowest bidder? There is a science taking care of golf courses and I wonder if this group received a D on their report cards ?

mntlblok 03-05-2024 10:32 AM
Fungus for sure?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdasta (Post 2307547)
The creator of WingNut, has answered the question about the golf courses several times. There is a fungal disease. They are fighting it, but it spreads on shoes and mower equipment from one course to the other. Those who have had fungal problems with their lawns know that many times the lawn needs to be resodded and the top layer of soil removed, because the fungus is in the soil. We had fungal problems with our lawn when we were in Georgia. We had it resodded, but it eventually came back. It is a horrible problem. It will take a long time and cost a lot to fix the problem.
The developer is responsible only for those courses he has not yet released. To fix other golf courses, the monies will have to come from amenity fees in those districts.
From my first response from Howard Brown:

"As for Tarpon we are not sure why some of the greens are in worse conditions than others. We have sent soil samples out to check it there is a disease and we have not gotten the results back."

Got another response today that included the following.

"I agree it would be great to find a way to let people know about course maintenance, some of the things we do and why the courses are in the condition they are in. Unfortunately, we only respond and communicate with people who contact us and ask questions mainly due to staffing. Up until three months ago we only had 2 supervisors to manage the District’s 38 courses. We just hired 2 more supervisors so hopefully we can start being a little more proactive in getting the word out."

This is Howard.Brown@districtgov.org

Here's hoping that the meeting tomorrow morning at the Savannah Rec proves fruitful.

mntlblok 03-05-2024 10:36 AM
Course maintenance
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlblok (Post 2307915)
From my first response from Howard Brown:

"As for Tarpon we are not sure why some of the greens are in worse conditions than others. We have sent soil samples out to check it there is a disease and we have not gotten the results back."

Got another response today that included the following.

"I agree it would be great to find a way to let people know about course maintenance, some of the things we do and why the courses are in the condition they are in. Unfortunately, we only respond and communicate with people who contact us and ask questions mainly due to staffing. Up until three months ago we only had 2 supervisors to manage the District’s 38 courses. We just hired 2 more supervisors so hopefully we can start being a little more proactive in getting the word out."

This is Howard.Brown@districtgov.org

Here's hoping that the meeting tomorrow morning at the Savannah Rec proves fruitful.
I see no reason why this offer from Howard wouldn't extend to all here.

"If you are interested in learning more about the golf courses and some of the things that we do, I can get you in touch with one of my Superintendents and they could answer any questions, they love to educate people on golf course management and are pretty good at it. If you would like I can arrange for you to spend a morning shadowing them during one of our scheduled course closures and you could actually see what they do and observe all the moving parts of getting course ready for play.



In the meantime, please feel free to contact or call me if you have any questions or concerns about the courses. My cell phone number is 352-661-4291."


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