[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Result of poll is not surprising.......................I want, but I won't pay.

Not quite that simple. But you know that ----- I would hope.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

But, but, you haven’t played for awhile……..so how can you comment on conditions?

You are forgetting that our golf courses are, when they are properly maintained, beautiful and, even for non-golfers, an inducement to want to live in our lovely community. They are way more than just a place to play "whack-a-ball". They are the major landscaping that provides the beautiful wide open spaces for us all to enjoy. Even if you don't play, they are part of the lifestyle investment we make when we move here.
If your lawn starts going downhill, you will notice it. If your golf course goes downhill, you will notice it. In both cases, your maintenance people should be held accountable and set things right. You don't reward failure or you just buy more failure.
Everyone living in TV has a stake in our courses. Everyone has the right to comment.

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

You are forgetting that our golf courses are, when they are properly maintained, beautiful and, even for non-golfers, an inducement to want to live in our lovely community. They are way more than just a place to play "whack-a-ball". They are the major landscaping that provides the beautiful wide open spaces for us all to enjoy. Even if you don't play, they are part of the lifestyle investment we make when we move here.
If your lawn starts going downhill, you will notice it. If your golf course goes downhill, you will notice it. In both cases, your maintenance people should be held accountable and set things right. You don't reward failure or you just buy more failure.
Everyone living in TV has a stake in our courses. Everyone has the right to comment.

The golf courses, even if you never stepped on one, are critical to the water management engineering. - look how most fairways are lower than houses. It keeps insurance losses low.

[Bellavita]

We don’t golf free there are trail fees each year

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

I know this post will be crucified…..

But, if the districts picked ONE executive in each “area” (i.e. north of 466; 466 to 466A; 466a to 44, south of 44) and charged $20 or $25 a round, BUT the courses get an extra level of maintenance, basically, they are awesome courses.
Maybe tee times are spaced out an extra minute or two.

Would you support it? Would you pay to play that course?

You still have the others you pay for the trail fee. They would be maintained as they are now, some good some bad. They may not be the most interesting courses, but the conditions would be REALLY good.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Bellavita

We don’t golf free there are trail fees each year

[augustnotes]

Well Buddy I guess you got your answer.

[Andyhope]

Hopefully NOT

[Papa_lecki]

Originally Posted by augustnotes

Well Buddy I guess you got your answer.

Well, actually…..

About 5% said they would pay a green fee for a great executive golf experience.
Remember, not all executives will have a green’s fee, just 4 or 5 in the entire community.

5% of the population (4,000 people), paying $20 once a week or every other week, is in the 7 figures (another $1,000,000 to $4,000,000)
They’re using that money to maintain 45 holes,
Even at $1,000,000 in extra revenue, you can do a lot with an extra $20,000/hole. At the high end, its an extra $80,000 a hole.

[crash]

Originally Posted by Steve

I haven't played an Exec in a while but aren't carts supposed to stay on the cart trail except for the occasional Par 4 and the rare Par 5 holes? How do carts wear out the fairways if they aren't driving on them?

Because people do drive on them and don’t rake the traps, or fill their divots or repair their ball marks.

[Sandy and Ed]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Interesting read. The basic summary is that two factors, the weather and the amount of player traffic are responsible for the conditions. Given that the weather is a constant, which is out of human control, the amount of player traffic is the only variable which can be controlled. Since the conditions were MUCH better 5 or 6 years ago, before a crap load of new homes were built without a corresponding increase in available golf holes per rooftop, logic would dictate that increased player traffic is the culprit.

Simple solution, build more executive courses until the amount of player traffic is reduced to a level that allows the courses conditions to return to what they used to be 5 or 6 years ago.

Ya gotta stop using simple logic here!! Obviously 100% correct. Population goes up (duh, perhaps more golfers?)

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

Well, actually…..

About 5% said they would pay a green fee for a great executive golf experience.
Remember, not all executives will have a green’s fee, just 4 or 5 in the entire community.

5% of the population (4,000 people), paying $20 once a week or every other week, is in the 7 figures (another $1,000,000 to $4,000,000)
They’re using that money to maintain 45 holes,
Even at $1,000,000 in extra revenue, you can do a lot with an extra $20,000/hole. At the high end, its an extra $80,000 a hole.

Well, actually ....
This poll is obviously skewed since it addresses golfers interests primarily and was likely passed over by many non-golfers. Not "5% of the population", just 5% of those who bothered to take the poll on TOTV.
Ÿout $20 per week is $1080.00 per year for a few courses that will (hopefully) be no better than all the courses should be maintained.
And what about the rest of the courses? Do they get left to die now that there is only 4 or 5 courses that matter? And since only 4 or 5 courses will be worth playing, they will become high demand and eventually more expensive, perhaps evolve into a "members only" club?
Meanwhile, since the rest have been allowed to go to pot, might as well tear them out and fill the area with homes.
I hate to say it, but this whole thing, with "well actually" hints that the decision might have already been made and the "pole" may have merely been a gage of how hard it is going to be to shove it down the throats of the over 95% who said NO.

[tuccillo]

The Developer puts in the amenities and then eventually sells them to the CDDs. About half of the amenities fee goes to paying off the purchase of the amenities.

Originally Posted by Steve

To answer your two questions: "NO" and "NO". The folks who run the execs collect amenities fees from 138,000 people (~70,000 homes) every month.

My fee is $175.31/month. That's over $11,011,700/month ($132,140,400/year) taken in by the amenities authority. If they can't budget sufficient funds to maintain the courses, the primary draw for The Villages, than somebody needs to be booted out and a better manager installed.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

The Developer puts in the amenities and then eventually sells them to the CDDs. About half of the amenities fee goes to paying off the purchase of the amenities.

Isn’t paying for those amenities bonds a part of our annual non-ad valorem assessment,
not part of monthly fee?

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

Well, actually…..

About 5% said they would pay a green fee for a great executive golf experience.
Remember, not all executives will have a green’s fee, just 4 or 5 in the entire community.

5% of the population (4,000 people), paying $20 once a week or every other week, is in the 7 figures (another $1,000,000 to $4,000,000)
They’re using that money to maintain 45 holes,
Even at $1,000,000 in extra revenue, you can do a lot with an extra $20,000/hole. At the high end, its an extra $80,000 a hole.

The most dangerous step onto a slippery slope is the first one.

If the powers-that-be can justify green fees for “four or five” executive courses, what is to prevent them from justifying green fees for four or five. MORE executive courses in, say, three years?

[drcar]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Not trying to shoot down the idea of finding a way to better maintain the executive courses, but it is fair to point out that these types of discussions seem to happen every year about this time. Time, fewer people on the courses and more rain in the next few months will go a long way toward rectifying the situation.

Nevertheless it is a fact that some of the executive courses seem to be maintained better than others. Rather than selective maintenance, here are some ideas of better overall maintenance of the executive courses, keeping in mind that the cost of just about everything has gone up and course maintenance is no exception:

1. Charge a bit more for trail fees, say 10% more for motorized carts and raise the cost of pull carts from $1 to $2 per cart.
2. Close each course for scheduled maintenance on a regular basis (once every two weeks?)
3. RIGOROUSLY enforce the rule of no unauthorized motorized carts on the course (Seeing people violate that rule is becoming more and more common).
4. Do maintenance as a preventative rather than a restorative. Allowing a course to go downhill to the point where it needs (say) $100,000 in repairs over two weeks while the course is closed is ridiculous if the same amount (or probably much less) spent in routine maintenance on an open course is the other option.
5. Have the “ambassadors’ (as others have suggested) be more than just smile-and-wave guys and have them actually ENFORCE rules. Pushcarts on greens—cigarette butts negligently cast onto the course—unfilled divots—unprepared ball marks on greens—etc. etc., could all be minimized by better rule enforcement.
6. Allow more time between tee times. Even one more minute between tee times, when spread over a year, means significantly less traffic on the courses.

There are most likely a lot of other things that could be done to improve playability and minimize major repairs. Unfortunately the powers-that-be seem all too hesitant to upset the status quo, unless there is absolutely no other choice.

Some good ideas, BUT more time between tee times would create LESS tee times. People are already complaining about lack of tee times!